Thoughts on Jim Tracy

by Charlie Wilmoth on Oct 4, 2005 4:24 PM EDT in News

UPDATE: Dave Littlefield says he will talk to Tracy soon; Tracy looks to be the front-runner for the job.

Jim Tracy has left the Dodgers and is now a leading candidate to replace Lloyd McClendon in Pittsburgh. Meanwhile, Jim Leyland might be headed to Detroit.

Anyone have an informed opinion on Tracy? I've watched the Dodgers probably fifteen or twenty times in the past fifteen months or so, mostly at the end of 2004 and the beginning of 2005 (I live in Southern California, and my former roommates are Dodgers fans), and I've never seen him do anything I thought was a bad idea tactically - the sorts of things, like bunting in the tops of innings of tie games at Coors Field, that I'd see McClendon do on a daily basis. (Some people who watch Tracy more closely don't agree, however.)

Baseball Prospectus has praised Tracy in the past for getting great work from part-time players (such as Marquis Grissom and Alex Cora in 2002; Dave Ross and Jolbert Cabrera in 2003; and Jose Hernandez, Olmedo Saenz and Jayson Werth in 2004). He's had all kinds of problems with those sorts of players this year, but injuries forced his hand and left him with inferior talent. (Still, though, he probably relied on folks like Mike Edwards, Jason Repko, and other players named Jason more than he needed to.)

He seems willing to go with youth when he needs to, although I'd quibble with his use of Hee Seop Choi this year - there's no good reason to bench Choi when you have the likes of Jason Phillips playing first.

The Los Angeles Times explains that there were "disagreements" between Tracy and general manager Paul DePodesta on the matter of how to use Choi and infielder Antonio Perez:

Some of the disagreements have been clear. DePodesta believes first baseman Hee-Seop Choi and infielder Antonio Perez can be productive everyday players. Tracy is partial to players such as shortstop Cesar Izturis and former Dodger Alex Cora, whose contributions aren't necessarily reflected in statistics.

Reasonable people can surely disagree on this issue, since Izturis and Cora are very good defensive players. But if someone like DePodesta tells me to play Antonio Perez, I'm going to trust him - not because he's clairvoyant or because he knows how to measure 'the little things', but because he has a track record of getting extremely good results from unexpected sources of talent. Those unexpected sources are the kinds of sources the Pirates need to be exploring, and Jim Tracy probably isn't going to succeed in Pittsburgh with a bunch of aesthetically-correct, throwback types of players. If Tracy doesn't want to play Hee Seop Choi, what is he going to think of Craig Wilson, another slugger who strikes out prolifically and has less of a ballplayer's body?

Thoughts on Jim Tracy? Anyone?

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Tracy

So it does appear that the source of trouble between Tracy and DePodesta was more or less that DePo wants his team run Beane style and Tracy wasn't about to be his Art Howe (which was sort of what I thought might happen). I always kind of thought his teams overachieved (they really weren't very good for the giant payroll) which is what we need. But that is a good point about Choi and Antonio Perez. If getting good work from part-time players is what he does best, then I suppose we should be happy since we certainly have a lot of those.

by Pat on Oct 4, 2005 10:31 PM EDT reply actions

re: Tracy

Yeah, we do. But if he is good with platoons and those sorts of things, that's the kind of skill that could gain a team a couple of games a year. If he starts blocking the wrong players, that could be a big problem.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Oct 4, 2005 11:04 PM EDT reply actions

Tracy

This is true too, but then again Littlefield is most decidedly not building a Moneyball team here in Pittsburgh, thus avoiding the conflicts they ran into in LA. You've probably noticed that my blog is mostly devoid of actual opinion on Tracy to this point, I'm still trying to get a handle on him as well. Of course all this Tracy speculation probably means the Carlos Tosca era will begin sometime early next week.

by Pat on Oct 5, 2005 1:49 AM EDT reply actions

Where to begin

There are several things wrong with what you wrote.

I can't speak for Choi's game, but CWilson's stance is inconsequential to his launch position, which may or may not allow him to hit the down and away curve.

But then again, why would he be swinging at that? Even if he hits it, it won't be very far. If the pitch was a strike, and Wilson had the ability to foul it off at will, then we've got something. Otherwise, it really doesn't matter unless the pitcher has a really good curve which he can spot for a strike low and away, in which case Al Pujols won't be doing anything with it either.

"He only hits mistakes." Well, if he can keep walking at a decent rate, and he's served up 29 mistakes a year, he should be in the lineup every day. Our lineup.

azibuck

by azibuck on Oct 6, 2005 9:43 AM EDT reply actions

Umm

My belief is that good players make a good manager and bad players make a bad manager - for the most part. A manager may be worth a few wins or losses either way, but the stark reality for the Pirates is that they are not simply good enough for a manager to make a difference.

Every manager can be nitpicked for tactical and lineup decisions. The true value for a manager, in my opinion, is the ability to manage personalities and to present a credible public face for the team. I don't get a warm and fuzzy feeling from Tracy, but I have no reason to suspect he is not a quality manager. What does concern me is the fact he was unwilling to get with the program in LA after DePodesta took over and it seems from afar (to me anyway) that he basically mailed it in and made little effort to make the 2005 Dodger team work. I could be very wrong about this, but it is the perception I have of that situation.

by Greg Schuler on Oct 6, 2005 12:21 PM EDT reply actions

Mailing it in

Greg, for what it's worth, at least one Dodgers blogger has said over and over that Tracy basically did "mail it in" during the last part of the season, making inexplicable decisions down the stretch.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Oct 6, 2005 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions

And

I have read elsewhere how he gets points for handling Milton Bradley and Jeff Kent. Again, from afar, that was an embarassment that did not seemed to be handled by the manager at all. And Bradley had as many public outburts with the Dodgers and under Tracy than in Cleveland.

I think it's time for a trip to bb-ref.

by Greg Schuler on Oct 7, 2005 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions