Protest is Small

by Charlie on Jun 30, 2007 9:20 PM EDT in News Comment 19 comments

I wasn't there, but I'm calling this one. The Post-Gazette reports that "several hundred" people met at the rally on Federal Street, but if you watch footage on KDKA, it looks like a fairly small number. (However, police tried to keep people out of the street, which limited the amount of space the protesters had.)

On the game broadcast, FSN actually interviewed Bob Nutting and asked him about the protest, then showed footage of the protest after it returned from the commercial break after the third inning. They showed footage of some people walking toward the concourse wearing green shirts. It looked like an obviously-noticeable number, but not many, and when they panned over the ballpark, it didn't look like many people had left. The Trib reports that the number was about 1,000, which looked about right based on the footage I saw.

The most unfortunate aspect of the scene - and both FSN and the Post-Gazette reported this - was that many people actually booed the protesters.

I don't understand this; I just can't process it. Not only did only about 1,000 of the 22,000 or so in attendance walk out, but many people actually booed. Who the hell are these people? They can't all be members of the Nutting family. Maybe they didn't understand what the protest was for, but it was well covered in the local media, so that seems unlikely. As far as I can tell, the protesters only wanted to send a message that they were unhappy with all the losing and that they held the ownership responsible. I just don't see how anyone but a Nutting sycophant, a hopeless ignoramus or a complete moron could disagree with that message.

It therefore appears to me that there is a huge population - a majority, perhaps - of PNC attendees who either are so reactionary that they hate protests of any kind, or are happy to have the Pirates playing Class AAA baseball as long as major-league teams show up to play them and bobbleheads of past stars are distributed at the gates. Or maybe they honestly believe that the owners are honestly doing their best to turn things around, in which case they're just deluded beyond repair. Of course I knew that there were a lot of people like this, but I had no idea how many. It makes me very sad to be a Pirates fan and it makes me question what I'm doing here. If the people of Pittsburgh are content with 67 wins a year, then who am I to write angrily about every busted draft pick or stupid transaction? I mean, who cares, right?

What a stupid, pathetic scene this was. 1,000 people showing some guts and protesting, and 21,000 more paying $20 or so to collect a bobblehead and say, "Thank you, sir, can I have another?"

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I attended the rally

There was about 3-500 at the rally. The majority milling around HiTops were there nearly the whole two hours. Amazingly enough, the rally had as many attendees as the Left-Field loonies street party thrown by the Pirates. So, the protesters waited all that time to cheer Andy Chomos and Dock Ellis. They did it for the love of the Pirates. And they matched in numbers those Loonies who got free music and food and the like just to support the Nuttings.

I didn't attend the game. While walking across the Clemente bridge after the rally, I realized few were wearing green shirts, or IrateFan shirts, or some other protest shirt. I also realized that the people I saw would make up the majority of the attendees in the park. I knew then that the protest was in trouble.

Given the crappiness of the team, the expectations were high for the protest. Too high. Now, we have to wait to see if the Fans for Change give up or learn from what happened.

As for myself, I'm grateful I didn't hear the boos. There's not many compelling reasons to work on things like Fans for Change or IrateFans when it appears as though the majority of Pirate fans would rather imbibe the baseball equivalent of swill than to pay the price to drink a good double malt scotch, or grappa or a well-made craft brew.

by steve_z on Jun 30, 2007 10:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

On its terms, it succeeded

The "last word" bit at the end of Baseball Tonight focused on the walkout. That's the first dedicated coverage the Pirates have gotten.... well, in a while. Nothing notable was said; Orestes Destrade said some nice things about the city, its teams and its fans, and said more money needs to be spent. Buster Olney, who knows better, noted that Nutting released a statement and noted that we're 10 below .500 this year, whereas we were 30 under last year -- "they're getting better," he said, raising his eyebrows sagely. Um, OK. For reasons known only to ESPN management, Steve Berthiaume is allowed on the set of the show and functions sort of as, I guess, the anchor, and he said with this nice ballpark, if they want to spend more money, that had to raise prices. So anyone who ever said anything bad about Ravech, take it back. I've always thought Berthiaume was one of the bottom-feeding trolls who've made ESPN the self-parodying infomercial that it is, but I never thought he was an idiot as well...

Anyway, my point is this; the only possible thing this protest could have accomplished is to generate bad publicity. By its very nature, it wasn't going to cost the Nuttings money; when a three-digit number of people walked out, it lost even whatever shock value its most optimistic advocates hoped for.

But yet, nevertheless, it was the last thing you saw on TV if you clicked off after BBTN.

That is success, within the reasonable scope of expectations.

by KPatrick on Jun 30, 2007 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sportscenter

Is saying that a few thousand left their seats, but only about a hundred actually left.

This reminds me that as we were standing out in the concourse, we did watch a cop escort a green shirt out of the park.

by matskralc on Jun 30, 2007 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was there

Dragged the wife up to PNC in our green shirts. The drive to South Hills Village to grab the T took longer than I planned so we ended up missing the rally, which was a bummer.

We also walked out to the concourse after the third. I actually didn't notice booing per se, but when all us green shirts got up, I did hear the crowd getting restless. When we reached the concourse, there weren't actually very many people out there. When we returned to our seats, the woman sitting next to me pointed to the seats next to us saying "they all left for that protest thing. It didn't really seem to do anything." I'm not sure if she noticed our green shirts and when we left our seats or not.

I was mildly surprised that the two large signs hanging from the left-field rotunda (the only two I could see/read from our seats way up in 303 [way out in rightfield and we were waaaay up at the very top of the stadium]) weren't forcefully removed. One said "Worst MLB Owners" and disappeared after the walkout (wife says it was gone before then, but I didn't notice). "We Will Rob The Fans" stayed there the whole game, though.

I was actually more surprised that overall attendance didn't seem that great tonight. It was a stunningly beautiful day, there was a popular trinket being given out, and the crowd wasn't all that great. Maybe the REAL protesters didn't even bother to show up!!

KDKA and Paul Martino are portraying it right now on TV as "fans who support the team vs. the protesters, and the protesters lost". Lots of quotes from morons saying "they aren't going to accomplish anything, the bunch of idiots". Morons who clearly don't understand that the only "anything" we were trying to accomplish was to get people talking about this whole situation.

by matskralc on Jun 30, 2007 11:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The protesters didn't lose

Pittsburgh lost.

I'm unsure what people thought a walkout would accomplish. The real accomplishment in this instance would take years to achieve.

by steve_z on Jun 30, 2007 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And another thing

Listening to 104.7's call-in show on the drive back from the Village to home, the host mentioned the interview with Nutting. Apparently, Nutting said something to the effect of "We appreciate the passion of our fans to express their opinions, especially those of our loyal fans who attend and stay at the games". Something like that. It's crap like that that makes it reeeeeally difficult to continue to support this team.

by matskralc on Jun 30, 2007 11:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Nutting's interview on FSN

err, I meant to say that it's available here:

http://s16.quicksharing.com/v/5543467/top_of_the_second.mp3.html

Pittsburgh Lumber Co.

by Cory on Jul 1, 2007 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was there too

I was there, too. It was pretty sad. There were two people in my section that booed us as we left and held up signs that read "WE SUPPORT OUR PIRATES." Part of me wanted to talk some sense into them, but most of me was just sad. I would guess a few thousand walked out (I had a pretty good view from our seats in the right field grandstand), but almost no one left the park (maybe 100 or so). It certainly got some press as it was on BBTN and everything, but it was mostly just a disinterested showing, from what I can tell. If you read what I wrote at my own blog, you can tell the whole thing bummed me out pretty bad.

http://whereisvanslyke.blogspot.com http://mlb.aolsportsblog.com/

by whygavs on Jun 30, 2007 11:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

dock ellis

dock ellis supported our protest. that was a biggie:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/tmccool/IMG_0805.jpg

also, the best part was getting interviewed by a bunch of different people, including FSN who acted like they weren't going to acknowledge the protest.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/tmccool/IMG_0796.jpg

organizer sean lucas on the right.

by tmccool on Jun 30, 2007 11:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

don't see this as a failure

I want to thank matskralc and all of the other loyal Pirate Baseball fans who, truthfully, made history today. As far as I know, no protest like this has ever been attempted before, and I think it was a great idea, though it was seemingly misunderstood by the other fans in the park ("If it's a protest it must be un-Amerikun!").

It's unfortunate that the ignorant status quo fan in the stands fails to comprehend the message, but the serious cranks who pulled this off should be proud of themselves. If I lived near I would have joined you.

by Brian in 317 on Jul 1, 2007 12:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Proud

By the way, I'm proud of the people who did this, too. I'm sorry I wasn't clearer about that. They did the right thing. It's the rest of the fans I was upset with.

by Charlie on Jul 1, 2007 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

boo-ers

I've been to a fair share of protests and the like in my day ("fair share" - what the hell is that?) and, well, there's this unfortunately massive percentage of the population that equates dissent with disloyalty. To avoid dipping into explicitly political matters, I'll simply cross the Pittsburgh sporting spectrum and nod toward those Steelers-worshiping Neanderthals who'd get all message board huffy at the mere suggestion Coach Cahr mightn't have always been making the best decisions. "Some fan you are" they'd write, as if to suggest Ricardo Colclough maybe shouldn't be put in a position to fumble yet another punt equaled a fervent inner desire for the other team to win. Those people are called "morons". Charlie's done connected those dots for us already in terms of Buccodom, and the basic logic should be clear to anyone with a functioning pineal gland.

As for the protest itself, baby steps. I didn't expect anything really huge - anything much larger would have shocked me, actually. But now it's up to the organizers and like individuals to keep up the momentum, maybe stage a series of picket rallies/flier distributions/visible direct actions (I'm thinking a brave soul willing to buy home plate seats and display a banner for the TV audience or some such). The majority is out there. They just have to reached and harnessed.

For what it's worth, I made the wife put on the game today (we're back in the DC area and this newfangled MASN station showed it) and told her about the protest. She didn't get it, and the local coverage neither mentioned nor took any pains to display it, but I noted the number of green-wearing folk in a number of outside-the-park shots. To that end, it looked to an informed TV viewer that people were up to something. Message sent, message received? Maybe.

by psk984 on Jul 1, 2007 2:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Charlie, you were right the first time

I know you're not fishing for compliments and I know you're not actually going to stop blogging but, seriously, are you THAT disappointed?

You said it best before the protest; this is our team, this is our history, these are our memories. If the Nuttings couldn't take that away, neither can last night.

And I maintain, the thing succeeded on its terms. You couldn't have been surprised that 25,000 people, the bulk of whom don't come to that many games, decided not to deprive themselves of two-thirds of a baseball game that they'd already paid to see on a beautiful summer night? I share your annoyance with whatever vocal anti-protest was made; it's one thing to sit there and roll your eyes, quite another to actually heckle protesters. But again, you're surprised that there's a noticeable Reactionary Douchebag Element when you get 25,000 together in a Rust Belt city?

I joked (well, snarled is probably more apt) elsewhere that the Nuttings got some free market research last night. Well, regrettably, so did the whole Pirates blogosphere. But again, this is news? Troll the comments sometime. Look how many of the same names keep coming up. I know many more people read and don't comment, but still, I think it's fair to say we're a vocal minority in all senses of the phrase. 1 out of 25? Sounds as good as any other guess. I mean, have you been to the ballpark? If half the people there care about baseball on any given night -- let alone on a night specifically AIMED at Tourists -- I'd be happy.

If you measure the significance and success of your work based on the numbers from last night, you're using the wrong measuring stick. This is the equivalent of a soapbox in Market Square; no matter how right you are, the people working Dahntahn will assume you, and the rest of us standing around you, are "crazies." It's a given. Most people don't care about the Nuttings' misrule? Shit, most people don't care passionately about anything outside the boundaries of their yard.

You don't measure your impact by votes. You measure your impact by the fact that there's a fair number of people out there who felt they had to take up arms, such as they did. And whatever the numbers were, the tastemakers in the local and national media outlets deemed it significant; they gave it space. That is the most this protest could have hoped to accomplish. I'd guess each serious protester's manifesto bore/bears some resemblance to your own, at least in its structure. This site has been a wellspring -- nay, a roiling cauldron -- of dissent for years. You have to believe that some of that has infiltrated the public consciousness. Just like everybody talks about OBP now. It may be happening glacially, but you can't think it isn't happening. And you, and the rest of the firebrands, have to take some credit for that.

Take your victories where you find them -- and as you find them.

by KPatrick on Jul 1, 2007 8:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hey KPatrick

Drop me a line at s.zielinski@comcast.net if you want to publish a version of this post on IrateFans.com

Thanks.

by steve_z on Jul 1, 2007 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

sure

I sent you an email.

by KPatrick on Jul 1, 2007 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You make a lot of sense.

When you haven't done something like this and you try it, it's easy to imagine that you'll convince people of the rightness of your cause, regardless of the facts.

Travis is probably right that a lot of people have been doing their own "protest" for a while now, and they simply aren't showing up to the games. It was a Saturday and there were bobbleheads, and STILL only 22,000 or so were there. I can take some pride in that.

by Charlie on Jul 1, 2007 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Average" Pirate fans

Many what I would consider knowlegeable baseball fans no longer attend the games. Those that do (myself included) probably attend much less frequently than they would otherwise if they knew they weren't being fleeced by the Nuttings. I would agree on the "average weekend night" 1 outta 25 baseball fans is about right.

by Travis on Jul 1, 2007 8:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This is sadly true

I still can't stop paying attention to the team -- checking updated scores, looking at the box, reading the blogs -- but I'm reaching the point where I just don't want to go to the ballpark anymore. I went to the home opener, and I'll be going to the 8/13 DH with the Giants but if I hadn't scored those seats some time ago I probably wouldn't go. That's one game in a year, and anymore it's all I feel like going to. I've been a Pirates fan for 40+ years and even in the bleak '80s I don't think I ever felt this kind of despair. It's one thing when baseball is structured against your small-city home team. At least the Oaklands and Minnesotas have shown you can work around that. It's that your OWN MANAGEMENT is structured against your team. When your choices in describing the people who run the franchise are between incompetent and criminal, what can you do? Hopelessness is what I feel. Sheer hopelessness.

by bucdaddy on Jul 1, 2007 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I attend an average

of about 2 games per year now. I tried to protest using tax $$ to build the park and managed to never set foot in PNC until 2005. Then my company had a luxury box event there every year and I finally decided to go. Unfortunately I got sucked back into this team despite the ownership, certainly not because of. (I used to keep a scorebook while watching games on TV as a kid).

by Travis on Jul 1, 2007 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs