Draft Open Thread (Pirates Pick Moskos)

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jun 7, 2007 1:55 AM EDT in News

UPDATE: The Pirates have chosen Daniel Moskos, a lefty from Clemson. Great. Fiftieth verse, same as the first. Except not quite: he was a reliever in college until this season, which probably means he wasn't abused like a lot of college starters are. Unfortunately, many analysts think he'll be a reliever in the majors, and he has a high-effort delivery. Neither of those those sound good.

Here's some info:

Brewerfan.net:

Moskos stands to be the best left-handed pitcher drafted out of Clemson since Tyler Lumsden, a first round supplemental pick in 2004. Moskos, like Lumsden, throws hard for a lefty, sitting in the 89-92 range as a starter and reaching the mid-90s as a closer. His stuff is nasty when used in short stints, with excellent movement on his fastball which is complemented perfectly by a wicked slider. He is expected to be moved back to the starting rotation next spring given his promising third pitch, a changeup, but many believe his stuff is too nasty as a closer to move him.

Minor League Baseball:

An undersized lefty with a small frame who throws with maximum effort. Body-wise, he's maxed out without much projection... While some think he can start because of three potential pitches, the bullpen is a more likely permanent home for the hard-throwing southpaw.

This really doesn't sound good.

Bryan Smith at Sports Illustrated, in ranking Moskos the tenth-best draft prospect:

I think he projects much better out of the bullpen, as Moskos' fastball and slider are suited for short stints. However, given his success on Friday nights with Clemson this season, a team will see if Moskos can be successful throwing three or four different pitches with less effort. Moskos is very good at keeping his fastball low in the zone and inducing groundballs, so it is certainly a chance worth taking.

Baseball America:

In starts of late, Moskos’ velocity has sat at 90-92 mph, and he has a low-80s slider to go with a curveball and changeup. While he has good stuff, he has not dominated in his first extended stint as a college starter.

Honestly, I don't understand why the Pirates don't think it's worth the extra million bucks or so it would cost them to work with Boras to sign Wieters. If you flush your money down the toilet on first-round pitchers who get injured or flame out, then you have to pay a lot more later on. Dave Littlefield's unwillingness to learn his lesson is kind of unbelievable; his willingness to take the PR beating he's about to receive is equally unbelievable.

The best thing I can say in their defense is that maybe somebody in their scouting department thinks they're getting some kind of left-handed equivalent of Tim Lincecum - you know, high-effort delivery, close to the majors. At the time of last year's draft, many analysts thought Lincecum would be a reliever too. But it still looks to me that if that's what the Pirates are thinking, they're fooling themselves, and just because Lincecum hasn't gotten injured doesn't mean Moskos won't.

UPDATE: As Count Vertigo points out, Moskos will pitch on ESPN tomorrow at noon.

* * *

2:00 PM, ESPN2

I'll be at my brother's graduation in Virginia for much of the day tomorrow, but hopefully I'll be able to check periodically. Here's what might happen:

-P- The Post-Gazette reports that the Bucs want high school third baseman Josh Vitters. Vitters may not be available with the fourth pick, however.

-P- The Trib reports that the Pirates will be concerned about "signability" tomorrow, which probably rules out Georgia Tech catcher and Scott Boras client Matt Wieters. Punxsutawney high school catcher Devin Mesoraco may be on the Pirates' radar, the Trib reports. (The Trib quotes Bucs scouting director Ed Creech saying Mesoraco is worthy of a top pick.) I hadn't heard of Mesoraco until about five minutes ago, so this isn't exactly great news to me. He'll apparently be eminently signable, which may just be more evidence that he's not the best talent available. As some of you noted in the diaries, Baseball Prospectus reported this too.

-P- The Beaver County Times says that the Cubs, who many think will take Vitters with the third pick, may actually go for Wieters, in which case it's likely that the Bucs will take Vitters.

-P- For whatever it's worth, Baseball America ranks prep third baseman Mike Moustakas the fourth-best prospect available. Moustakas will probably be available when the Pirates pick - but he's also a Boras client.

-P- Other names that have been mentioned in multiple articles as possible top Pirates picks include Missouri State lefty Ross Detweiler and Lewis-Clark State slugger Beau Mills.

With money being a huge concern, all signs point to my being disappointed if the Bucs can't get Vitters.

UPDATE: I should hopefully be here when the Pirates make their first pick. Here are some other sources of information in case you get antsy. Feel free to post here in case you find out anything.

Minor League Ball

Baseball America

MLB.com

1. David Price - Devil Rays
2. Mike Moustakas - Royals. Not Rick Porcello as expected. I hope that won't tempt the Pirates to go for Porcello. (UPDATE: Oops, Porcello is a Boras client, so probably not.)
3. Josh Vitters - Cubs. Ugh. That stinks. The Bucs are on the clock; I have no real idea what they'll do.
4. Daniel Moskos - Pirates.
5. Matt Wieters - Orioles.

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Comments

this is a deal breaker for me

my 21 year trust to the pirates is on the line tomorrow. if we don't gets wieters, or vitters i'm DONE with this team and will just move on until there is an ownership change.

baseball prospectus quoted the pirates pick selection as.. "but a request submitted to ownership to spend big money was quickly denied"

i think vitters is actually going to go to the royals at 2, because they can't sign porcello. wieters will be available at 4.

i have a sick feeling that the pirates are going to spin it into another 2004 local PR fest about grabbing the 'local guy' and taking the catcher from punxsy. or they'll take josh detwiler, who has a ceiling as a 'decent #3 starter'..

here is how i would rank the top 10 players overall in this draft..

1. matt wieters, catcher georgia tech

a much better bat than longoria last year. not to mention he has a deadly arm behind the plate. if we took him, they'd turn him into a pitcher (throws 95MPH as a reliever) this guy is going to be in the starting lineup for the damn BREWERS in 2 years and will be a perennial all star. i'm sick to my stomach as i type this.

2. david price, pitcher vandy

he's going to end up in tampa. very good stuffy as a lefty. will be in the majors soon.

3. josh vitters, 3b, high school

imagine a better david wright. he'll be a top 10 prospect by august. this guy is going to be great.

4. rick porcello, pitcher high school

higher upside than price, and porcello's price is going to be high. he's going to fall a bit in this draft, nothing more risky than a high school pitcher who wants over 10 million guarenteed. mayo of mlb.com has him dropping to the yanks at 30, that's too much of a drop.

5. mike moustakas, 3b high school

another california infielder. if we took him, i would be more than happy. guess who his agent is.. boras. well, uh. anyways, best high schooler in cali this year (vitters was sick), led the state in home runs. gold glover too, better arm than vitters. he'll be a great one.

6. jason heyward, of high school

outfielder from georgia. john sickels says he's the best high school kid in this draft. he's a 5 tool player with an uncanny amount of power. i think 3 years from now, he'll be the best prospect from this class (assuming wieters is already catching for the NL in the all star game for the brewers). without question he'll be around at #4 and without question we WON'T take him. probably a college pitcher with no upside, or the kid from punxsy.

7. jarrod parker, pitcher, high school

he's been said that he's a better version of tim linecum. smaller frame, but throws 98.

8. beau mills, 1b lewis and clark

biggest power guy in baseball this year. he could be the next jim thome, or scott spezio .458/.556/1.033, with 38 homers, 22 doubles, 123 RBI, 43 walks, and 22 strikeouts in 240 at-bats. impressive anyway you look at it even if it's NAIA. he raked too at fresno state before leaving. he'd be a great AL DH, defense worries.

9. matt dominguez, 3b high school

a teammate of moustakas in california. he's the 3rd best of the cali high school kids, but not that far off. coming into the year, he was probably rated the best.

10. ross detwiler, pitcher missouri state

i'll put him here, but boy i don't like him. he has a very awkward pitching style (tommy john surgery candidate), tall (6'4), and very scrawny. another lefty. he's the 2nd best college pitcher in one of the weakest of its time. here's the best, his fastball is in the 89-93 range.

so that's my top 10..

and here i think this is DL's top 5 guys he wants.. with 2-5 one of those being our 'great talent'

vitters
merasaco, catcher from punxsy
dominguez
moskos (lefty from clemson), heh
detwiler

by FaFaFoHi on Jun 7, 2007 6:12 AM EDT reply actions

Heh indeed

Way to go putting Moskos on your list.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jun 7, 2007 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions

charlie's brothers

Charlie,

Congratulations to your brothers this spring.

by scoreboard on Jun 7, 2007 7:54 AM EDT reply actions

Thanks, Ryan.

I'll pass that along.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jun 7, 2007 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions

Charlie

Did your brother also go to JMU? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you told me before that you went to JMU.

by Dignan on Jun 7, 2007 8:37 AM EDT reply actions

No

One at Washington and Lee, one at University of Virginia.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jun 7, 2007 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Two good schools

I applied for and was accepted at both, but ultimately ended up at Duke.

by Vlad on Jun 7, 2007 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Cool

Virginia does have some good schools. I do have to say that I remember people being a bit uptight at UVA when I went to visit some friends there while I was attending JMU, but that could have just been a bad sample size.

by Dignan on Jun 8, 2007 6:00 AM EDT up reply actions

Baseball America prediction is...

Detwiler.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/draft/features/264204.html

The Pirates predictions have been all over the place so far. I really hope they don't pick a pitcher.

by Dignan on Jun 7, 2007 8:38 AM EDT reply actions

mayo

Mayo at mlb.com predicts Moskos.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070605&content_id=2006566&vkey=draft2007&fext= .jsp

by haven on Jun 7, 2007 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions

Blah

They aren't going to take the best available player (Wieters), and they aren't going to take the best non-Boras guy (Heyward), either.

It's really hard to care about this team, when they aren't even going to put forth a modicum of effort.

I've been operating under the assumption all along that they're going to take Moskos, since he's the best combination of low ceiling and high risk out of all the top picks. We'll see whether I'm right.

by Vlad on Jun 7, 2007 9:31 AM EDT reply actions

Mesoraco

Funny how the Pirates have lowered my expectations so far that I am actually hoping they take Mesoraco simply because he at least isn't a low ceiling college pitcher.

by haven on Jun 7, 2007 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions

Well

"With money being a huge concern, all signs point to my being disappointed if the Bucs can't get Vitters."

I don't understand this. The Pirates are making a ton of money. They can afford Wieters. How is money a concern?

by steve_z on Jun 7, 2007 10:29 AM EDT reply actions

Nutting's wallet...

...is bonded to his leg. If you try to remove it, he could easily bleed out and die!

by Vlad on Jun 7, 2007 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions

money, money, money

Because they want to keep on making lots of money, not spend it on some wet behind the ears kid.

After all, building a good team is not how they have made all that money. The plan is working. No reason to change now.

by rogero on Jun 7, 2007 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions

Charlie...

went to William and Mary (I'm assuming he won't mind me telling strangers since that info is linked from this site). His brothers also went to excellent VA universities. Old Dominion State represent!

by scoreboard on Jun 7, 2007 12:49 PM EDT reply actions

And we're underway, sort of...

Commissioner Bud making some dopey opening comments.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jun 7, 2007 2:10 PM EDT reply actions

Tampa Bay on the clock.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jun 7, 2007 2:11 PM EDT reply actions

This is so weird.

It's a real NFL atmosphere. People chanting "Let's go Rays." The Rays are "on the clock," which seems silly since they presumably already know who they're taking.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jun 7, 2007 2:12 PM EDT reply actions

Maybe this TV thing isn't such a great idea.

They're really milking this. Ravech et. al. have no material.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jun 7, 2007 2:14 PM EDT reply actions

Rays pick....

David Price.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jun 7, 2007 2:16 PM EDT reply actions

Royals get...

Mike Moutsakas.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jun 7, 2007 2:22 PM EDT reply actions

live blog

If you tire of ESPN and want some lighthearted commentary on the draft, here is a live blog:

http://shakedownsports.com/

by aih on Jun 7, 2007 2:22 PM EDT reply actions

I resign.

No Longer A Pittsburgh Pirates Fan.

by bryanzane on Jun 7, 2007 2:32 PM EDT reply actions

Hooray!

We're all doomed.

by Vlad on Jun 7, 2007 2:33 PM EDT reply actions

Disgusted

Creech and DL are clueless. No shock.

by haven on Jun 7, 2007 2:36 PM EDT reply actions

Not just a lefty, Charlie:

A lefty reliever! With a max-effort delivery!

by Vlad on Jun 7, 2007 2:37 PM EDT reply actions

And Wieters goes to the Orioles.

Which is sadder:

Steve Phillips slagging your pick on national TV, or being out-strategized by Baltimore?

by Vlad on Jun 7, 2007 2:38 PM EDT reply actions

Fresh arm

I would be more persuaded by the "fresh arm" theory in Moskos's case if he didn't have such a mutt-ugly delivery. I think the fact that he was a college reliever is the only thing that kept him healthy long enough to get drafted in the first place.

by Vlad on Jun 7, 2007 2:42 PM EDT reply actions

Vlad

shoot me an IM sometime.I lost your nic and need to re-enter it on AOL

by Count Vertigo @ Bucs Dugout on Jun 7, 2007 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions

AOL

It's SporkedTongue.

by Vlad on Jun 7, 2007 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Delivery

That's the worst delivery I've seen since Wade Miller.

by azibuck on Jun 7, 2007 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions

this is a deal breaker for me

I'm done as a Pirates fan.

They can go to hell.

by FaFaFoHi on Jun 7, 2007 2:43 PM EDT reply actions

liar, liar

Wieters was sitting there and that lying SOB Littlefield took a reliever.

by rogero on Jun 7, 2007 2:44 PM EDT reply actions

Horrible...........

pass on the the best player,pass on the best high school pitcher and pass on the best available college pitcher.
I am not surprised,but this is getting really bleeping old!
Just what we need yet another reliever that should be "Close to the majors".
I think I am going to be sick!

by Count Vertigo @ Bucs Dugout on Jun 7, 2007 2:50 PM EDT reply actions

The Pirates Organization

Has become an absolute farce. A left handed reliever with the fourth overall pick while the player who could have helped them the most goes once again to the Brewers at 7.

I'm done with these creeps, I'm rooting against them from now on ... I hope the Yankees absolutely humilate them this weekend.

by RunRunRunAGround on Jun 7, 2007 3:02 PM EDT reply actions

If anyone cares

Clemson's game vs Mississippi State is noon tomorrow and Moskos is the scheduled starter.It is on ESPN,I think.

by Count Vertigo @ Bucs Dugout on Jun 7, 2007 3:15 PM EDT reply actions

cheep!!!!

The question is that who's pick this; Creech/Littlebrain or
ownership. It's such a poor pick-when you are critically
killed on national TV you know you are in trouble. And dollars
to donuts he will called up in September to impress the casual fan.

by TGT on Jun 7, 2007 3:23 PM EDT reply actions

Stupid Fucking Guy in the World

Somebody stab Littletwit and poison the Nuttings before they get another chance to do the same to us.

by psk984 on Jun 7, 2007 4:35 PM EDT reply actions

UH...

Make that "Stupidest", as I prove my point.

by psk984 on Jun 7, 2007 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Heh

ESPN's running a little capsule of the first round picks on their bottom-of-the-screen crawl. The one for Moskos was "Prefers starting role, but projects as a reliever."

by Vlad on Jun 7, 2007 5:22 PM EDT reply actions

Double Heh

They just had Moskos on ESPN, and he said that he was "shocked" when the Pirates took him.

by Vlad on Jun 7, 2007 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Heh Indeed

I can think of at least three reasons why he'd be shocked, none of them good.

by psk984 on Jun 7, 2007 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions

In fairness...

...he didn't look so much "shocked" as "tranquilized".

by Vlad on Jun 7, 2007 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Well

Our 2nd rounder has the upside as a #5 starter.

Jesus christ!

by FaFaFoHi on Jun 7, 2007 6:37 PM EDT reply actions

Duke Welker, BTW.

I like him OK as a player, but I think he's overdrafted by at least a round there.

by Vlad on Jun 7, 2007 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Law and Welker

Law listed Welker as his 74th best prospect. Not an overdraft per say, but the problem is the type of player DL picks. Low upside, theoretically low downside college pitchers. Over and freaking over.

by haven on Jun 7, 2007 7:10 PM EDT reply actions

Third round

Brian Friday, shortstop out of Rice.

Seems like a Bixler type. Speedy, strong arm but inconsistent mechanics in the field, fairly little power and doesn't draw too many walks.

by Vlad on Jun 7, 2007 7:13 PM EDT reply actions

I can live with this....

Although I do wish I thought the Pirates could teach Friday some plate discipline.

by haven on Jun 7, 2007 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions

BA thinks

He's doing better in that respect this year (though it's still not a strength).

by Vlad on Jun 7, 2007 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions

If it means anything ...

... John Sickels pegged the Twins to select Friday in the second round.

by nick3849 on Jun 7, 2007 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Fourth round

Quincy Lattimore. Seems like a toolsy high school CF from NC, some issues with contact, decent pitch recognition.

by Vlad on Jun 7, 2007 8:03 PM EDT reply actions

Fifth round

Andrew Walker, college catcher from TCU

BA had him at #71 overall entering this year, but his defense slipped a bit, and they said in a recent draft preview that they thought seventh-to-tenth round for him (42nd overall in Texas).

by Vlad on Jun 7, 2007 8:25 PM EDT reply actions

Not draft related

Has anyone been thinking that Paulino's effort ranges from minimal to shitty way too often? There was an example from the Nats game today on Wilson's double. He hasn't run out grounders, etc.

Maybe this is tolerable from a superstar, but this guy? I've been getting really irritated at him; am I the only one? It seems like we've got to at least put the effort in!

by hisjazziness on Jun 8, 2007 2:17 AM EDT reply actions

It's not a Pirates game...

...if I don't go totally apeshit over Paulino failing to make even a rudimentary effort to block a ball in the dirt, so that it rolls all the way back to the screen.

Granted, Doumit screws up nearly as often, but at least he looks like he's trying back there.

by Vlad on Jun 8, 2007 2:42 AM EDT up reply actions

you can get

away with being lazy when you are the managers choice.
One would think Paulino is married to Tracy's daughter or something

by Count Vertigo @ Bucs Dugout on Jun 8, 2007 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions

This is what you get

when there's zero talent in the system pushing you for your job, even when you're hitting .220. And that goes for every starting player they have. Castillo's another example. You don't put up with this kind of crap if you have talent stacked 10 deep on the bench and in the minors. You don't have to.

by bucdaddy on Jun 8, 2007 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions

Groundhog Day All Over Again

If ever there was a draft the Pirates needed to make a statement and demonstrate a "do whatever it takes" commitment to building a winning organization, this was it. Clearly, they should've taken Wieters. Moskos appears to a pitcher who is basically, "what you is what you get." And what you see is just not all that much. Ridiculous. Pathetic. Excoriable.

Just an observation here, but I don't see any kind of comparison between Moskos and Lincecum. If anything, Detwiler may be closer to Lincecum in some ways than Moskos.

Whatever. It's Groundhog Day all over again.

by bern1 on Jun 8, 2007 1:46 PM EDT reply actions