The Death of Pirate Nation

by fugimaster24 on Aug 14, 2007 4:16 PM EDT Comment 23 comments

Last night at the ballpark finally confirmed my long held belief about the large majority of the fanbase: No one cares about the Pirates.

After the Bonds video tribute, Barry freaking Bonds got a standing ovation IN PITTSBURGH PENNSYLVANIA.

What has gone wrong here? We Bonds hated before it was cool!

Being at the game(s) I booed Bonds, and not only for the steroid allegations, but for what he did here in Pittsburgh.

I shouted "Sid is STILL running, THANKS FOR THE RINGS BARRY!!!" when suddenly a Giants fan turned around a said "prove it"

I said "Prove what?"

The Giants fan: "That Barry used steroids"

"Dude, I didn't say a thing about the steroids. Barry Bonds cost this city a ring, nothing is worse than that"

What, are Giants fans all bionic? Programed to say "prove it" where ever they may go? It seemed very odd to me.

I then looked out at the 20,000 Pirate fans praising Barry Lamar Bonds, and sat down, put my face in my hands, and said "What has happened to the Pittsburgh Pirates".

If Pirates fans can forgive Bonds, obviously, they can forgive the Nuttings for not supplying a legitimate baseball team.

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Barry

Was a huge part of even making 1990-92 possible in the first place.

by matskralc on Aug 14, 2007 4:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That really doesn't matter

As a Pirate, Barry Bonds failed when it mattered most. So did Stan Belinda. And Leyland.

Failure is part of baseball (even good hitters make 7 outs to every 3 hits, yada yada). But Bonds failed, spectacularly, at the most inopportune times. And emphasize "inopportune". Some players and franchises only get so many chances. The Pirates have had 3 legit chances in the last 28 year. Three. That Barry Bonds failed with each chance can't just be cast aside by his greatness at times surrounding, or leading up to those opportunities.

by azibuck on Aug 14, 2007 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nothing

that Bonds did blew a 2-0 lead in the ninth inning of Game 7. That honor goes to 1) Jim Leyland, 2) Chico Lind, 3) the home plate umpire who squeezed Belinda, 4) maybe Cecil Espy, 5) Doug Drabek, and somewhere waaaaaaay down the list is BB.

I think the people in the stadium last night decided it's way past damn time to let bygones be bygones. It's like still hating on Neil O'Donnell or something (OK, so the Steelers have a ring since then to soothe the pain, but you get my drift).

BB put up two MVPs here and should have won a third. And he wasn't on drugs then, presumably. Give the guy props for what he did in a Pirates uniform.

Doesn't mean I like him, even a little bit. But can we please get the f*** over it?

Thank you.

by bucdaddy on Aug 14, 2007 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

Agreed.

by ILLZ on Aug 14, 2007 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bonds

I had a lot of good memories of him playing ball here, and I don't think there's anything wrong with honoring him for the performances he delivered in black and gold. Sure, he could've played better in the postseason, but as others have already said: he wasn't the only one on the team who came up short, and we never would've made it there without him in the first place.

I was actually kind of pleased to see him get a warm reception. I've had more than enough of fans reflexively booing ex-Pirates. I mean, I've seen people boo Jeff Suppan, Aramis Ramirez, Jay Bell...

You're entitled to boo whomever you want, but it'd take a lot for me to boo an ex-Buc. Particularly one who tried to stay in Pittsburgh, and was turned down by management.

by Vlad on Aug 14, 2007 9:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I Completely Disagree

Whether or not that play at the plate would have required a spectacular throw to actually get him or not, great player make great plays.

Bonds blew the biggest play that the Bucs have had in 30 years.

The nation isn't going to remember that game, or who screwed up before him. They're gonna remember the guy who couldn't make the play.

Period.

by fugimaster24 on Aug 14, 2007 11:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well, if you just want to rant

Then forget I said anything.

by bucdaddy on Aug 14, 2007 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great players

Great players are able to make great plays more often than non-great players, but they aren't machines. You can't turn the crank and get a great play on demand, or anything like that.

Bonds wasn't any worse in the postseason than Ted Williams or Ty Cobb. Where they great players?

by Vlad on Aug 15, 2007 7:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Forget it, Vlad

He's not listening to reason.

by bucdaddy on Aug 15, 2007 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Whoa, bucdaddy

I'll listen to reason. You (all) have a point is what I'm saying. I think the ovation was classy, but I completely understand holding a grudge (as a certified grudgeholder myself). It's not just the throw, it's hitting .191 across three playoff series. It's being a jackass. It's saying he wouldn't sign with Pittsburgh before the 1991 season, i.e., two years before he was even going to be a FA. Pgh wasn't going to put up the money later either, I'm just saying, how about being classy in the first place and just saying he'll do what's best for his career and family, etc., when the time comes.

For me, that comes way ahead of the throw, and for that matter, PED, because I think many players used the latter, and the former is way overstated.

Barry was a jerk. And he still is, so why would I forgive? Maybe it's different for you, but "Barry being a great player for the Pirates" is sort of generic and vague, though true. "Barry hitting .191", "Barry's dustup with Leyland", "the throw" -- those are very specific things, and more memorable than something generic and vague.

by azibuck on Aug 15, 2007 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He offered to sign a long-term deal...

...and they turned him down flat. Barger thought that arbitration was the best thing since sliced bread.

by Vlad on Aug 15, 2007 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well If You''re Going to Stick to That

Then you've just completely proven my point.

The fan base has no edge, no bite, and no guts left if they can't even find it within themselves to boo Barry Bonds.

Last Night was one of the best ballgames of the year, and people were trying to do the wave in the 8th iniing of a tie game.

So you applaud Barry, take your bobbleheads, and enjoy the fireworks.

What are the Pirates to you, a college team? When guys go off and do well, you cheer for them? I can't wait for the Pat Meares tribute video.

by fugimaster24 on Aug 15, 2007 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sure, I root for them.

If you don't form any degree of attachment to former Pirates, then you're just rooting for laundry.

And what does Barry Bonds have to do with the fans at the stadium starting The Wave? Was he the instigator of it all?

by Vlad on Aug 15, 2007 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

MAybe I'd Get Attaached as well

If there were any worth getting attached too. Frankly, Bonds is the LAST guy I'd form a bond (no pun intended) with.

And none of the Pirates have really been good enough, or had personalities I can realte enough to to pull for them when they're gone. They're all nice, but very boring losers.

Maybe Rob Mackowiak but that would be it.

by fugimaster24 on Aug 15, 2007 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree about the "boring" thing...

...but personal taste is personal taste. If none of those guys ring your bell, so be it.

by Vlad on Aug 15, 2007 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rooting for laundry

I didn't want to directly reply, Vlad, because I don't mean to sequitur along in that discussion.

I root for laundry. And I don't understand why that is some sort of joke. Of course I root for laundry. I've been a fan of "the Pittsburgh Pirates" since 1971. There are no players left from that team.

All through the 70's as a kid, I'd check the standings every day. I scoured the box score too, but it was all about how many games back/ahead the team was. I didn't own anyone's jersey. The first question asked was "what's your favorite team", not "who's your favorite player."

There was 1-2 games on TV per week back then. To me, the Pittsburgh Pirates were almost faceless. I didn't live in Pittsburgh, I didn't go to games.

Players come and go, but the constant is the laundry.

by azibuck on Aug 15, 2007 5:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I do it too...

...but I think you lose a lot if you're ONLY rooting for the laundry.

by Vlad on Aug 15, 2007 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cuts both ways

You have to end up rooting against some guys too then. Joggin' George (and now Ronny!?). Wil Cordero -- I hated Cordero, not for beating his wife, but because he went from 1st to 2nd on what should have been a double for BGiles. I can still see Giles looking up at the sky, red-faced, on first base. You could almost literally see the steam coming out of his ears. Cordero wasn't good anyway, but that one play sealed my opinion of him for... well, clearly, forever.

Luckily, most hate-worthy guys are short timers, and most likely not good ballplayers anyway. But once the seeds of hate/like/respect are sown, for whatever reason, they're pretty strong.

by azibuck on Aug 16, 2007 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree about Cordero

I didn't boo him when he was here, but I made sure I sat on my hands when he did something nice. For me, though, it was the wife thing.

Same with Jose Mesa, actually.

by Vlad on Aug 16, 2007 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hah!

Just for the record, I didn't meant to imply that the wife thing wasn't hateworthy. That was definitely strike 1.

by azibuck on Aug 16, 2007 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Uggg

Who remembers Kevin Young taking three steps into foul territory before giving up on a pop fly that landed ten feet from the stands? I hate that guy. It's one thing to not have the talent to be better than the other players, it's another thing to not hustle.

by bryanzane on Aug 16, 2007 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I always cut Young some slack on that.

In my mind, the condition of his knees was at least a partial excuse. If I was running around on two bad wheels, I probably wouldn't have much bounce in my step, either.

But yes, very frustrating to watch.

by Vlad on Aug 16, 2007 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

don't want to rake the muck

but I'm with you Fugimaster. I live in San Francisco, and I teach at a Community College where most of my student are Giants fans. I can't stand Bonds, and hated him (while hoping he'd play well) even when he was a Pirate (for a litany of reasons, many of which were earlier stated by others in this thread). It's funny but the steroid thing doesn't rile me nearly as much as the other stuff he's done over the years.

I guess I'm not a real baseball fan because seeing him break this record means absolutely nothing to me. I wouldn't have cheered or booed.

by Brian in 317 on Aug 18, 2007 11:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs