Gammons

by Alleghenys on Aug 15, 2007 11:18 PM EDT

On ESPN tonight, Peter Gammons reported that Pirates owners are talking to lots of people in baseball and are considering "cleaning house" on the player personnel side and starting over in an attempt to get the club on the right track. Gammons said this is aimed squarely at Dave Littlefield and Jim Tracy, and may take place sooner rather than later. The new CEO would play a role in initiating this.

On a side note, Gammons also called Littlefield and Tracy two of the nicest guys in baseball. If that's true, then baseball is full of a#%holes.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.

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Nice

Don't understand....Tracy and Littlefield look so good in the office. Who was that old GM that had the baseball academy for the Royals? Sid something. He looked like hell! Don't even tell me Joe L. Brown looked good in the big chair. We have Phelps now just a few pieces away...c'mon stay the course! No need to go off half cocked. Its a 5 year plan for God's sake. Last I checked we are only in year 12.

by Doug Froebel on Aug 16, 2007 12:47 AM EDT reply actions

Can 'em all.

I wanna see blood in the aisles.

The picks on the new hires will be critical. We don't want to end up with another five years of a Littlefield clone.

by Vlad on Aug 16, 2007 7:35 AM EDT reply actions

Blow driers need not apply

We don't want to end up with another five years of a Littlefield clone.

On the other hand, it'd be a truly remarkable achievement to find somebody else that bad.

by WTM on Aug 16, 2007 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions

Gammons is full of ... it

Unsourced, vague, BS.

by azibuck on Aug 16, 2007 10:15 AM EDT reply actions

Yes, but . . .

. . . we WANT to believe.

by WTM on Aug 16, 2007 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions

Nice guys

finish last. Hey, can I copyright that?

azibuck, Gammons = unsourced, vauge, BS = redundant.

by bucdaddy on Aug 16, 2007 10:34 AM EDT reply actions

definition

"damning with faint praise" (verb phrase) - to praise so moderately as, in effect, to condemn: Gammons also called Littlefield and Tracy two of the nicest guys in baseball.

by johnnycuff on Aug 16, 2007 11:29 AM EDT reply actions

Housecleaning

As Vlad knows from another board we both post at, I have a solid source who claims the decision has already been made, and he thinks it has been communicated to Littlefield. Keep your fingers crossed that it's true, because the story I heard is that it will be a complete housecleaning, from top to bottom, with blood in the aisles and no mercy.

by RichieHebner on Aug 16, 2007 10:55 PM EDT reply actions

If this isn't right . . .

. . . you're going to Hell.

by WTM on Aug 17, 2007 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions

The source

On that other board, Richie has periodically posted and been right about things in the past, before they were in the news.

by Vlad on Aug 17, 2007 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions

What's the other board?

I don't expect anyone to out any sources, but I'd certainly like to add this site to my daily browse list..!

by OmarMoreno18 on Aug 17, 2007 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions

The other board

is:

http://forums.scout.com/mb.aspx?S=234&F=2086#s=234&F=2086

I'll let you figure out who Vlad is over there, although he has already confessed elsewhere over here.

Come post over there. We've lost a few people who have justifiably given up, and a lot of the stuff is just monosyllabic ranting.

by RichieHebner on Aug 17, 2007 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions

All I can tell you

is that my source has no interest in what happens in Pittsburgh whatsoever, but is so positioned as to periodically get information for which I would give my left nut if I was Dejan. Nutting has been calling people around baseball, and has relied on folks at MLB New York for contacts and ideas. This person is one of those folks, and he didn't offer me the information. I asked him about it, and had to beg for some of it. Personally, I trust him, especially since the news from him came right after the Gammons story, which when I told him about it (he hadn't seen it), he replied it was consistent with what he knew. His last bit was that Nutting talked to some players, and the reaction he got was that there was not much happiness with either Littlefield or Tracy. I don't want to go to hell, so I hope I'm right. However, I want these guys around for another year even less than I want to go to hell, so I really hope I'm right.

Vlad is being generous--a couple of things I have heard turned out to be unprovable and/or wrong, but in retrospect, most have been right. One thing I will say that after all I heard about the way Craig Wilson was treated, and how angry he was, I was shocked that he would have wanted to come back before he was injured earlier this summer. They did that dude some serious dirt, and there was one ugly incident between him and Tracy. I hope his surgery is successful and he can hook up with some AL team next year. I'd like to see him get another run.

by RichieHebner on Aug 17, 2007 9:37 AM EDT reply actions

Good stuff

Thanks for the great posts, Richie. By all means, feel free to drop by Bucs Dugout anytime you hear an interesting tidbit of information. We love to banter here and would welcome any reports you have.

by Alleghenys on Aug 17, 2007 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions

Many thanks

I've actually been lurking since early last season, but it took me forever to sign in. The quality of banter here is superb, and since Vlad and I are fellow posters for a couple of years elsewhere, and Wilbur is a fellow Washingtonian, and I think both guys are as sharp as they come, I decided to join in. The quickness here is mucho fun.

by RichieHebner on Aug 17, 2007 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Welcome

Seems like a disproportionate number of online Pirate fans live in the DC area.

You ever go to the minor league games here?

by WTM on Aug 17, 2007 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Minor league games

Not as many as I would like. I've been to Hagerstown and Potomac twice, and would like to go more often. Too much travel has made it difficult. On the other hand, I did see the Pirates play the Braves at PNC, but that doesn't technically qualify, since the Braves are a major league ballclub.

by RichieHebner on Aug 18, 2007 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions

Incident

"They did that dude some serious dirt, and there was one ugly incident between him and Tracy."

Which was later confirmed by Perrotto in a backhand way, IIRC.

by Vlad on Aug 17, 2007 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions

On outing sources

Y'all will get a laugh out of this, and I know Vlad will. One of my best sources on in the clubhouse and executive suite stuff was the former Parrot. He was the bird from 2000-2006, and just retired at the age of 28 to establish a golf and diving resort in Aruba. Before you scream about more wasted money here, full disclosure requires that I confess that MLB pays the mascots,not the teams. By the way, he thought the Pirate was appalling. I got to wear his suit once. Over 120 degrees in there--I have no idea how he did it, although he used to be a gymnast.

by RichieHebner on Aug 17, 2007 9:44 AM EDT reply actions

Nobody expects the man with the green fuzz.

One of the guys I work with is the brother of a different former Parrot (now sadly deceased).

It's funny how things end up with sources. All my baseball ones (which were never very good to begin with) are gone, but I have a GREAT in with the Penguins, about whom I hardly care at all.

by Vlad on Aug 17, 2007 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions

The interesting thing about this one

Assuming the rumors pan out, is that it validates the work done by the Pirate Fans for Change group and by the IrateFans group. Neither can claim that their actions directly caused the Nuttings to change course, but the emergence of organized dissent coupled with the prospect of years of additional losing baseball provides a strong incentive to change personnel if not also strategy.

Of course, this point assumes the Nuttings are prepared to own the team for a long time. The CEO hire will be the key. Will he be a caretaker meant to engineer a team sale in a few years or will he be authorized to build a championship in Pittsburgh?

by steve_z on Aug 17, 2007 11:23 AM EDT reply actions

Richie: If you want to write this up for IrateFans

send me an email at s.zielinski@comcast.net

Thanks!

by steve_z on Aug 17, 2007 11:34 AM EDT reply actions

Many thanks, Steve

I am tempted to, as my source didn't play "don't tell anyone" with me. I don't know if he didn't think about the possibility that I would get it out on the web, and I foolishly failed to ask him. Let me call him Monday and sound him out. One thing I find interesting: Nutting has called press conferences to scotch rumors before, and he has done so when things on the web have heated up. We now have several days of web chatter, the Gammons story on the leading sports television network, and not a word from them, except that announcements will be made after the season. My source told me he is letting them stay through this season, but that they are gone and they know it. Littlefield is saying little these days, and I have to believe he is moving chess pieces in the hope that a winning streak and a few more wins, as well as good performances by LaRoche and Morris (he can only wish) will induce Nutting to change his mind. The point is, the public announcements are not at all inconsistent with what I am hearing, which suggests to me that this really is going to happen. The obvious question is whether any of this matters, if Nutting bungles the new hire. While I don't see him hiring a Kim Ng, I could see some good conventional options, and the fear there is that he will hire Joe Garagiola, and I don't want to see that. The potential for a major #$%& up will remain here for some time to come, largely because the buddy network that is MLB recycles the Garagiolas, the Bairds, the Bowdens and others. Cam Bonifay even got a great job after Pittsburgh, before the Devil Rays decided that he had to be stopped before he killed again.

Anyway, I digress. I'll get an answer Monday on repeating this any further than I have, and let you know, Steve.

by RichieHebner on Aug 17, 2007 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions

Thanks a lot

Even if this information eventually turns out to be a rumor that came to nothing, making it public and keeping it in the public eye still puts additional pressure on the Nutting partnership. The fact that your report also supports the Gammons report only adds to the load it places on the Nutting partnership.

Hopefully your friend gives you the go-ahead!

by steve_z on Aug 17, 2007 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions

No go

Apparently, I was to assume that this was to go no further. He said, "Absolutely no internet stuff. Nutting has been reading all sorts of stuff online." When I told him I had already spilled the beans, and that if Nutting is reading online, he probably already knows it was him who talked, he was highly displeased. I would rather lay low at this point, given how highly pissed he sounded.

Seriously, if you are that worried, then don't talk. There are no secrets anymore. Personally, and I told him this, I think Nutting fully expects that the people he confides in are talking, and that is his way of sending his messages. I told him I would not get into it anymore (at least after this post, saying I couldn't get into it anymore).

by RichieHebner on Aug 20, 2007 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions

I have no problem with this

It's nice to know that Nutting reads our stuff. In a way it doesn't surprise me at all. I'd imagine those subordinates around him replies to everything he says with something akin to "Sure thing, boss!! How soon!! Great Idea!! You sure are clever!!" He'll need to get a realistic analysis of the organization from someplace.

by steve_z on Aug 21, 2007 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions

Sorry, I forgot

Thanks for the effort!

by steve_z on Aug 21, 2007 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions

I believe he has been reading for a while

Over a year ago, it came out during a Q&A session that Nutting had that he was reading a lot of things on the web. I then asked my friend in the front office, and he said that Nutting did read a lot of the stuff, and apparently Littlefield has people reading various sites and refuting things he doesn't like. None of this is particularly surprising--we've seen half-witted posts on other sites that had to be plants. Suffice to say that Nutting has had an earful from a variety of different sources; I have one solid one who says the decision is made; Nutting will not say a word in their defense, and the clock is ticking. If Nutting changes his mind because Matt Kata and Josh Phelps got a few key pinch hits, then heaven help us all. I think these guys are gone day after the season ends, but we're probably going to have to wait until that day to find out. Also, keep in mind that this can get worse. Nutting could bungle this by hiring Dan Duquette or Joe Garagiola, and leave us with nothing but another miserable fifteen years to look forward to.

by RichieHebner on Aug 21, 2007 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions

I think Duquette could actually be OK.

I'm working on a diary on that, should be up later today or tomorrow.

by Vlad on Aug 21, 2007 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Brian Graham

Using Bill Cosby's voice.....

"Father, could it be......that if Littlefield were to go, that we too, could possibly be blessed.....with Brian Graham.....going.......too???????? Father, please"

Also, "Father, could we arrange some, with your blessing, some really bad fish for Ed Creech?

So bad that his stomach is so bad he must resign - for "personal reasons." Like Gary Ruby. Worked for him.

Oh Oh, WHAT IF THE NUTTING'S DON'T REPLACE HIM EITHER? We will then have no Director of Scouting......

Hmmm. I have a great idea. What if we get EVERYONE TO RESIGN FOR "PERSONAL REASONS." HUGE salary savings. No one will ever know. We'll just let our mascot do the hiring of new players and we'll just let them develop in the minors by just showing up.

Do they get it that we are incensed over this gross injustice called the "Pirates?" It just dawned on me that the team name is perfect for the ownership to be under. They are legit Pirates living alive and well in 2007.

Billy Pirates

by BillyPirates on Aug 18, 2007 8:56 AM EDT reply actions