Philadelphia vs. Pittsburgh, 18 August 2007

by Charlie on Aug 18, 2007 5:39 AM EDT in News Comment 11 comments

7:05 PM, WPGB

Jamie Moyer (11-8, 4.68) vs. Paul Maholm (8-14, 4.38).

A copule notes:

-P- Tony Armas will stay in the rotation, with Shane Youman heading back to the bullpen, even though Youman is a year and a half younger, is under the Pirates' control for the next several years, has an ERA a run and a half lower than Armas', and pitched better than Armas in their last starts. I'm not crying my eyes out for Youman, who's a marginal pitcher, but I'm still not sure how keeping Armas in the rotation helps the Bucs in the future or in the present. It's not worth worrying about, really, but it's silly.

-P- A Cubs win and a Brewers loss has given the Cubs the NL Central lead. The Brewers' pitching has completely fallen apart in August - Yovani Gallardo, Chris Capuano, Claudio Vargas and a number of relievers have all been horrible, and the team has posted a 7.07 ERA and a ridiculious .926 OPS against this month. The offense has still been good, but it's really hard to put enough runs on the board to still win games when your pitchers have alloewd that many runs.

-P- Rany Jazayerli with an interesting point about "slot money":

Rob [Neyer]: So the "recommended slot money" never really was realistic [in the Royals' negotiations with Mike Moustakas], was it?

Rany: Not for the first 4 or 5 picks, no. I don't have a problem with the slotting prices in general, but the slots have never held for the first few picks. To me, the "slot" for Moustakas was what Alex Gordon got two years ago...which was, coincidentally enough, $4 million. By any realistic assessment, the Royals did get Moustakas to sign for slot.

Daniel Moskos signed for slot money, but that's exactly the point - if the Pirates are unwilling to sign top draft picks for more than slot money, well, they might as well just not have top draft picks. Moustakas, top pick David Price, third pick Josh Vitters and fifth pick Matt Wieters all signed for above slot. So did many of the top talents from other recent drafts. If the Pirates aren't willing to go above slot, it's almost as if they might as well be picking tenth or fifteenth instead of fourth.

-P- Neil Walker, Andrew McCutchen and Dave Davidson all made their debuts for Class AAA Indianapolis last night. The Indians were five-hit by Jae Seo and Jay Witasick, but McCutchen went 1-for-3 and Davidson struck out three of the seven batters he faced.

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August 18, 1934

Roberto Clemente Walker would've been 73 today. RIP Roberto, we still miss you.

by Brian in 317 on Aug 18, 2007 11:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Clemente

The first player I ever saw, the first day I went to Forbes Field, was Clemente. He and Manny Mota were playing catch near the Pirates dugout, and I was just transfixed watching his movements. He threw a Giants baserunner out at third from right field on a line. Jim Pagliaroni never had to move--he caught the ball and tagged the guy. Since his passing, many have put up gaudier numbers, but he played the game with a passion and an elegance that is hard to find today. Maybe we are stuck in a time warp, but I loved those days. We won, and we swaggered while doing it. No one wanted to come to town and play us, and they didn't want to see us show up on their doorstep. We had outrageously colorful and fun ballplayers, and they were great together. The years between 1965 and 1979 were baseball heaven for me. My first Pirate game, and my last World Series win.

by RichieHebner on Aug 18, 2007 12:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The Great One!

I never saw him in person, only on TV. But WOW could he play. The 1971 World Series was him putting on a clinic on how the game should be played. I listened to an interview with Earl Weaver a few weeks ago and Weaver still can't believe just how good Clemente was!

Every Pirate player should be made to watch video of Roberto and Willie in action so they can see what a Pirate player should be. We have no one right now who comes close to either of them!

by zogger on Aug 18, 2007 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Moskos and slot money

The irony is that the Pirates signed Moskos for above-slot money, if you judge by the slot where he should have been drafted. They paid #4 money for a #8-12 talent, which means they overpaid by about half a million. Even when they're being cheap the overpay.

by WTM on Aug 18, 2007 1:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not to mention

that Moskos has gotten off to a slow start at State College.
I went to Hickory this week and was talking to a few Crawdads and asked if they knew anything about Moskos,as he was expected to be assigned there.
Word I got was that his velocity was down and they thought he would be better suited to starting his career at the short-season level.....

by Count Vertigo on Aug 18, 2007 4:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Figures

A guy drafted that high normally should start at high A. I don't think DL can lift a finger right now without creating some kind of disaster.

by WTM on Aug 18, 2007 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

On slot money

The Pirates signed Moskos to MLB's recommended slot money. I'm sure they got a nice pat on the head for it too. I have no evidence to back this up, but what I think MLB would like to have is all teams hold a hard line on their slot money recommendations, making Charlie's point moot.

Right now, slotting is a joke, because all teams are not on board. It's a great idea in theory. In practice, if the O's and a handful of other teams are going to sign for above slot money, then the status quo hasn't changed. Teams concerned with signability will avoid Boras clients and those who won't sign for slot money, and others will draft the best players, and cut the best deal they can regardless of the slot "recommendation".

If all 30 teams conformed, and accepted that they might not sign their pick that year, the system could change. They'd get a pick the following year, and a message would be sent to players that slotting is in effect, and either be prepared to sign or not play. I really think it could be a powerful thing. Right now, it's a toothless suggestion.

So, while Charlie is right about the Pirates unwillingness to sign players for more than slot money, I think the unwillingness of all teams to adhere to slotting is the real problem. But yeah, why would they? There's no incentive for them to adhere in given year. But I do think that's kind of shortsighted. Slotting needs to be a rule, collectively bargained, not a principle or suggestion.

Bonus Conspiracy Theory: I don't say lightly that the Pirates got a pat on the head for adhering to slotting. I'm guessing the Yankees and Red Sox types told the Pirates types that if they're going to cry poverty, they better act impoverished. If they go off and sign someone for above slot, well down the road the big markets might fight harder against revenue sharing and luxury tax, etc.

by azibuck on Aug 18, 2007 8:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The slotting system . . .

. . . is a gold mine for the Yankees and Red Sox. It removes the one advantage sad sack teams like the Pirates have, because a top talent just has to hire Scott Boras and he falls to the rich teams.

by WTM on Aug 18, 2007 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There

is no formal slotting system in the MLB Rule 4 draft. The MLB home office sets goals and recommends how much of a bonus a certain draft slot should get, but a lot of teams ignore that "advice" and pay to get the player. The Pirates toe the line at their own expense. The refuse to deal with Boras at their own expense.

The Yankees and Red Sox do what the Tigers and Marlins and even the Nationals did this year - spend money for amateur talent through the Rule 4 draft. MLB can't, to my knowledge, so anything officially about and for some reason hasn't bargained a true slotting system into place (or eliminate draft picks as free agent compensation adn be rid of any MLBPA interference in the Rule 4 draft).

I can't wait for the Pirates to experience the international stick shock when they try to muscle up to the bar. Teams don't wander into a town, throw down a few dollar bills and walk out with Vlad Guerrero or Roberto Clemente. it costs real money to sign the top end talent anywhere nowadays.

by Greg Schuler on Aug 20, 2007 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs