Cincinnati vs. Pittsburgh, 5 August 2007

by Charlie on Aug 5, 2007 1:50 AM EDT in News Comment 17 comments

1:35 PM, FSNP, WPGB

Bronson Arroyo (4-12, 4.72) vs. Tom Gorzelanny (9-6, 3.55).

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Some interesting stuff...

...in Dejan's latest chat. Among other things: He thinks Izturis's option gets picked up if Jack is traded, and Torres is still hoping for a trade.

by Vlad on Aug 6, 2007 5:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

"I have been covering this team for three years now. The next candid, frank conversation I have with [Littlebrain] will be the first. ... That is not a criticism. Some people just choose to do business that way."

by matskralc on Aug 6, 2007 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, of course

Izturis' option gets picked up if Jack gets traded. I can't remotely think of any other reason for him to be on the team except to serve as coach/caddy for Bixler until Bix is ready for the job. Then Izturis should go away.

by bucdaddy on Aug 6, 2007 6:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm cool with that

Just get someone to review Izturis' contract to see if there's a way we can void that $5.85m option for next year. Do we think Bix can put up a .650 OPS next year? If so, I'm saying we save $5.5m and run him out there. Let Don Kelly be his caddy.

by KPatrick on Aug 6, 2007 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If I were the new GM ...

And I were stuck with Izturis, I would sit down with him, explain to him what his role will be (backup IF/coach/caddy) and then I would offer him, say, three years at ... I dunno, $10M, to forget the option year exists. Then I tell my manager to start Bixler next year from Day 1, and see if he can cut it or not. And if he's a complete bust ... well, it's not like there'll be a pennant on the line.

by bucdaddy on Aug 7, 2007 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"three years at ... I dunno, $10M"

Just checking, but you mean total and not per, right?

by Vlad on Aug 7, 2007 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Total, yes.

Of course. I offer him some security in return for cutting his pay next year roughly in half.

by bucdaddy on Aug 7, 2007 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

with that plan...

... you just might get the job.

you would sign a crappy light-hitting veteran infielder to a long term contract that would put him in the top 10 salaries on the team and not expect him to compete for a starting job? i wouldn't be surprised if the nuttings call you this afternoon.

by johnnycuff on Aug 7, 2007 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The

option year is at the club's discretion. A good club would have no desire or wish to exercise that option. Whether you then sign the player afterwards is a different issue. Izturis has no say on the option being exercised, though.

And for the record - Izturis doesn't warrant more than a minor league deal and a non-roster invitation to spring training. I hope and pray that the player to be named is one of the few halfway decent prospects the Pirates have left. Maybe Romulo! or Delaney - it would be so typical and so Piratesian.

by Greg Schuler on Aug 7, 2007 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Club's option?

Ah, I missed that.

All I'm saying is, I wouldn't throw Bixler out there without a life raft. Since I have him anyway, I'd work out some kind of deal with Izturis. I know he can't hit, but he can field a little, and I'm pretty sure the Pirates couldn't afford whatever SS might be out there the next year or two who can actually do both, and we've been carrying a shortstop who can't hit for years anyway, and shortstop is one of the least of our problems (to paraphrase Chuck Noll: "The Pirates have many problems, and they are great").

For the record, Neifi Perez made $2.5 mil with the Cubs last year, and he's had years when he made $3.5 mil and $4.1 mil. Like it or not, around $3 mil a year is pretty much the going rate for people like Izturis. Doesn't mean we have to pay it, I know, but good luck finding something a lot better for a lot less.

by bucdaddy on Aug 7, 2007 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The lesson of Moneyball

Is that when you have small revenues to work with (whether they're actually small or artificially small), you never by "going rate" for anything, certainly not for garbage like Izturis. You find the UNDERvalued guys and get them, not the properly-valued or the valued-like-everyone-else-values-them or the OVERvalued and then justify it by saying "it's what everyone else does".

Which is why teams like the A's can field winners for years with available funds much like the Pirates'.

by matskralc on Aug 7, 2007 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One word

Ronnie Belliard.

by azibuck on Aug 7, 2007 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Check me

True to my shoot first, look it up later nature, I just punched up Belliard at BBref.com. Not really a shortstop. So... nevermind, but I think the principle still holds, there is value out there.

by azibuck on Aug 7, 2007 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Understandable mistake

Belliard was a shortstop coming up, until he outgrew the position (in part by getting fat, but whatever).

I've always thought of Castillo as comparable to Belliard in many ways, though Jose doesn't have as much bat.

by Vlad on Aug 8, 2007 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Doesn't make it right

As others commented, bad contracts don't justify bad contracts. Izturis is replaceable and does not warrant a significant investment to keep on the team. Whatever Neifi Perez made is irrelevant except to Cesar Izturis. For the Pirates, they should be able to find a shortstop that can play as well as they have now for significantly less. The question is whether they want to do that or placate the casual fan with a name signing.

by Greg Schuler on Aug 8, 2007 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bixler

won`t be a better player than Izturis. He`ll be lucky if he even has much of a career as a utility man. How many of you guys thought of him as a legit prospect, let alone the heir apparent to Wilson, prior to this season? It seems to me most here didn`t want Lillibridge moved to the Braves because he was the "future" at short. Bixler has had a reasonable amount of success at AAA. Big deal. Izturis will be the shortstop next year.

by patthatt on Aug 6, 2007 9:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs