Damaso Marte Re-Signs With Yankees

by Charlie on Nov 12, 2008 4:03 PM EST Comment 7 comments

Three years, $12 million. The Yankees effectively had a $5.75 million option on Marte for his age-34 season in 2009 that they declined, so this is basically the option plus a two-year, $6.25 million extension. Which isn't bad (and sounds great). But the "extension" doesn't start until 2010, and projecting what a 30-something reliever will be like in two years is a fool's errand.

There's a parallel here: right before the 2006 season started, the Bucs signed Salomon Torres, then 34, to a two-year, $6.5 million contract that started in 2007. When the contract was signed, Torres had for two years been an excellent, rubber-armed setup man. Sure enough, in 2007 he had a terrible season, struggling with injuries and ineffectiveness. The Pirates traded him to the Brewers for scraps, and he probably earned his $6.5 million with the Brewers in 2008, but it wasn't a given that he would do so.

This is probably a good deal for the Yankees, but if I were their general manager I might have just accepted the option. It's hard to know how he'll pitch in 2010 or 2011.

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Lefty relievers are signing cheap this offseason.

Eyre got 1y/$2M.

We probably ought to buy one or two… they mark up well before the deadline.

by Vlad on Nov 12, 2008 6:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Age is again a factor...

that will determine whether this a good move by a GM. From the Torres retirement to Willingham being ‘on the decline’ at thirty years old, a player’s age has been at the fore of recent off-season topics.

I’m not doubting any body’s opinion here, but I’m intrigued to know the facts about aging players. Thirty seems awfully young to me to start talking about a hitter being past his best. Do pitchers and hitters decline at different rates? Starters and relievers? Catchers and infielders? Are older, possibly injury prone, everyday players bodies affected by total innings in the same way that younger pitchers arms are?

Ok, I know I could have ‘googled’ the results myself, but the opinions and links from the braintrust on this site (Charlie, Vlad, WTM etc.) will be much more reliable and insightful… I hope!

by RDV across the sea on Nov 13, 2008 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Aging curves

Players at different positions age differently. Most starting catchers collapse offensively right around the age of 30, and 2Bs usually go not long thereafter. Individual players with high levels of athleticism (speed, etc.) generally age better than walks/power guys (Bill James called those “old player’s skills”). The research that led to the theory of the 27-29 peak was done in the ‘70s, and it may not be entirely accurate anymore, with advances in medicine (and drugs, if you’re a cynic), and there are always going to be some outliers. Claudell Washington never really improved on his age-20 season, for example, and Brian Downing hardly got started before he turned 30.

I don’t think there’s a corresponding age chart for pitchers. They’re just too flaky, and too injury-prone as a class. Though generally younger is better, of course.

by Vlad on Nov 13, 2008 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But What About...

Barry Bonds? He was just a skinny youngster w/no power way back in his Pirates days. Then he goes to ‘Frisco, gets ahold of some good Chinese cookin’ and seafood, hits 30 and hits his stride. Surely he stands out as undeniable proof that some things can get better w/age.

by Trogluddite on Nov 13, 2008 9:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Sure. But these are trends, not absolutes.

by Charlie on Nov 13, 2008 9:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wha?

Am I missing some sarcasm or something? Bonds hit 16 HR as a 21yo rookie and never looked back.

by azibuck on Nov 13, 2008 11:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Steroids aside...

…some guys really do only hit their stride post-30. Dazzy Vance didn’t notch a single one of his 197 ML wins until his age 31 season, for example. And Honus Wagner’s best season, 1908, came when he was 34.

Heh. Wagner’s 1908 season still blows me away every time I see it. He won the batting title by 20 points, led the league in OBP, and won the SLG title by a full hundred points. He led the league in doubles and triples, and was second in HR, two behind the leader. He led the league in steals, and was a top defender at the game’s most difficult defensive position. He dominated in pretty much every way it’s possible to dominate.

I mean, he hit .354/.415/.542 in a league environment where the average batter (all positions combined) was at .239/.299/.306. The second-best hitter on a Pirates team that won 98 games, Fred Clarke, was at .265/.349/.363 (127 OPS+). It’s just ridiculous.

by Vlad on Nov 15, 2008 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs