Yeah, he was 25 before he pitched in the big leagues, not counting a few innings he threw at age 21 in 1942 before going off to war. He lost almost 4 years in the war. Think about it. He would have won over 400 games if there was no WWII. Unless he blew out his arm pitching in his early 20s in the majors.

Spahn was still pitching for the Mets and the Giants at age 44. When they would no longer have him, he went off to pitch in the Mexican League. They had to tear the uniform off of the guy.

He was a very different pitcher than Moyer. Long, loose motion, very high leg kick, straight over the top with his fast ball and exploding curve. Led the league in Ks in his prime four years in a row. Still threw 259 innings with 22 complete games, a 2.60 ERA and won 23 games as a 42 year old.

Spahn was an all time great; Jamie is simply unique.

Great summary of Moyer, Azi.

Moyer hurt his arm in 1991. He made 7starts and was probably already hurt during those. Solid for Toledo in 1992, then came to the Orioles org in 1993, probably as an NRI. I saw him pitch his last game for Rochester before being called up to Baltimore, and it was a gem, 6 no-hit innings. I was interning for the local ABC affiliate at the time, but didn’t pay attention to a thing he said in the postgame interview. There wasn’t a gun that I recall, but like now he changed speeds and made the hitters look foolish. I believe he struck out 9, and I’m certain he fanned the side in one inning, the 5th or 6th. Man v. boys.

I followed his career ever since, but it’s not like I read everything about him. I’ve watched him several times and really tried to pay attention. As far as I can tell, he seems to be able to locate his breaking balls at will. That’s breaking balls, plural. He must have over 10 distinct pitches. I think he’s got the same motion no matter what he throws, so the 71mph curve that hits the corner(strike one) looks just like the 77mph curve that stays off the plate (fouled off, strike two). And they look pretty much like the 88mph fastball that tails just off the plate (ball one), and the 81mph “change” that tails just off the plate (ball two). And they all look like the the 84mph fastball that looks like it’s going to tail away too, but doesn’t, and either freezes the hitter or induces a lazy fly to the opposite field.

But he never looks like he’s guessing. I’ll bet he’s got a book on everyone, but it’s his book. The hitter whose book says, “hates high heat,” well, that’s not terribly relevant to Moyer. I think most “analysts” see a junkballer, but I’m pretty sure I’m watching a guy with either a tremendous feel, or very good plan for sequencing his “stuff”.

Duke is very Moyer-like, and he will definitely improve with age.

Barring injury, he’ll be around for a long time.

I wasn’t looking for empirical proof. As I said, I don’t think you can extrapolate from Moyer’s experience to every other struggling lefty in his mid-20s, or any other lefty so situated. But it’s not like Moyer suddenly learned to harness a fastball, a la Randy Johnson. The appeal of the Moyer example is that it seems like the sort of thing he manufactured. A bright young spark like Duke — or Maholm or Gorzo, for that matter — should be able to do something similar, if there’s something besides 16 years of blind luck to explain Moyer’s 249 wins in that time. (Theoretically.)