You Can't Make This Stuff Up

by Charlie on Apr 17, 2008 5:13 PM EDT Comment 21 comments

New Pirate hire Dan Fox's recent research - and by "recent," I mean "published last week" - suggests (if I understand it correctly) that Luis Rivas is something like the fourth-worst defensive second base regular of the past 50 years.

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that seems about right

by MarcB on Apr 17, 2008 5:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

that guys is just not having a good run. he’s terrible on the field and then the pirates hire someone who just wrote about how historically bad he’s been the previous eight years.

by scoreboard on Apr 17, 2008 5:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

fits with the history

That is pretty funny. Good work. I notice from the table that there are no Pirates listed in the top fielders (five at each infield position), but 5 of 20 of the worst fielders were Pirates at one time or another, including Dr. Strangeglove, who is rating the worst fielding first baseman in history by what looks like an incredible margin. For what it is worth, I recall that Donn Clendenon was a good first baseman, but maybe that was on scooping throws and this is just measuring fielding grounders.

by basmati on Apr 17, 2008 5:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Pardon my ignorance,

but who is Dr. Strangeglove?

Formerly known as Econolodge

by Willton on Apr 17, 2008 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dick Stuart

Pirates 1B on the ‘60 team, two-time All-Star, 1963 AL RBI leader. A really nice man who had a killer bat, but couldn’t field at all. He had some pretty impressive minor-league stat lines, too, including 66 HR in the Western League in ‘56.

I got a chance to meet him when I was a kid, and he offered to sign an autograph for me. When I flipped him the pen, he accidentally-on-purpose dropped it, which was pretty funny.

by Vlad on Apr 18, 2008 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dr. Strangeglove

The name was well deserved. Check out his fielding stats some time, mainly the error totals. They look like something out of the ancient days when the gloves looked like oven mitts.

by WTM on Apr 18, 2008 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No problem

Seeing as how Rivas is now our shortstop, not our secondbaseman, what’s the big deal?

by WTM on Apr 17, 2008 5:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ha ha ha

by Charlie on Apr 17, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A couple years ago, BP commented in one of its annuals that their defensive metrics were not very good for measuring first basemen’s abilities to field throws, so you may be right.

by Charlie on Apr 17, 2008 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oops. That was supposed to reply to Basmati. Not sure what happened there.

by Charlie on Apr 17, 2008 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

See, this is good.

They evidently needed someone to tell them that Rivas is a terrible fielder, and now they’ll know.

I can’t wait to see how they’ll react to the “water is wet” article Fox has in the pipe.

by Vlad on Apr 17, 2008 6:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wonder if Rivas will be DFA'd

when Jumpin’ Jack is off the DL in a week or so?

by Bad Andy on Apr 17, 2008 7:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

These numbers

make my brane all hurty.

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- HST

by cocktailsfor2 on Apr 17, 2008 8:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wonder where Maz

ranked in that? Unless it’s just predicated on actually fielding ground balls. My recollection is he was merely competent at that, but a magician at turning two.

by bucdaddy on Apr 17, 2008 9:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I love baseball, but Mr. Fox needs to get outside and get some fresh air.

by pirateinvirginia on Apr 17, 2008 10:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah! Stop nerding up our sport, nerd!!!

by matskralc on Apr 18, 2008 6:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

delayed response to wilton

Dr. Stangeglove is Dick Stuart, a HR or nothing, terrible fielder who was the starting 1B on the 1960 World Champion Pirates (my computer did not break in typing that phrase), though he did not start Game 7. We traded him to the Red Sox a couple of years later. He once hit 66 homers in the low minors; I think he might have had a couple of 30 HR seasons in the majors, but he was never a great slugger.

by basmati on Apr 18, 2008 1:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Actually Stuart kind of platooned with Rocky Nelson on the ‘60 team, particularly later in the year, which is why he had only 438 ABs. Nelson was a 36 year old journeyman who had his best year in ‘60 and really helped down the stretch. Forbes Field really killed Stuart’s numbers, as he showed his first year in Boston with 42 HRs and 118 RBI in ‘63. He once hit a ball over the dead center wall in Forbes Field, to the left of the 457 mark. I’m not sure anyone had ever done that.

Legend has it that Stuart was never knocked off his feet in almost 4300 PAs. He was a power hitter’s power hitter.

Great story, Vlad. Stuart really enjoyed his rep. Baseball Encyclopedia includes nicknames for some players. Beside Dick Stuart it says “Dr. Strangeglove”.

by rogero on Apr 18, 2008 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sangy sent one over the 457 mark

I listened to the game. Others did it too. My father told me he watched Josh Gibson hit two in one game over that spot!

Steve Z

by steve_z on Apr 18, 2008 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No human being can hit a ball that far

;-) Though I personally saw Maz hit one off the clock atop the Forbes scoreboard, and saw Stargell hit one on the right field roof.

BTW, anyone else been to Josh Gibson’s grave in Allegheny Cemetery? The “Black Babe Ruth” has a headstone about the size of a legal pad. Meanwhile, an infield fly away, Gus Greenlee has this huge, ornate monument. It figures.

I left Josh a baseball and sat with him a few minutes one fine morning a few years ago. Told him I was sorry he never got to play with the white boys. In the States, in the majors, in games that counted.

BTW, a great book that’s never been written (I tried to persuade Tony Norman, but it ain’t getting done) would be about the life and times of Gus Greenlee and Cum Posey. Any volunteers? Personal acquaintances of the two aren’t getting any younger. (And I so think the wrong one’s in the HoF.)

by bucdaddy on Apr 19, 2008 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs