On the Rule 5 Draft
The following may be of very limited interest, but what the heck. On the Unofficial Pirates Message Board, user No. 9 wonders what Chris Shelton must think of the Rule 5 draft process.
It's a great question. Shelton was selected from the Pirates in the Rule 5 draft after the 2003 season. Like many Rule 5 draft picks who stick with their teams, he played sparingly the following year, and also spent some time "rehabbing" at Class AAA. He collected only 108 total at bats on the season, then returned to Class AAA in 2005 before being called up. He was one of the Tigers' best hitters in 2005 and then sparked their hot start with a spectacular April in 2006, but he completely lost it after that and got sent to the minors and then kicked off the 40-man roster.
I come neither to criticize nor defend the Pirates' decision to leave Shelton off the roster in the first place. That's been rehashed here a million times. Instead, I wonder whether the benefits of the Rule 5 are worth the cost to players like Shelton.
What the Rule 5 draft is supposed to do is to keep teams from stockpiling tons of major-league-ready talent in the minors. It allows teams to protect a certain number of players from being selected despite their still being in the minors, but subjects others to a process in which another team can claim them and keep them if they leave them on their active roster all year.
Does the process work? That is, does the process allow teams to identify guys who are ready to play in the majors - and actually allow them to play there?
Using this site, I looked at every Rule 5 draft from 1998 to 2006 for successes. I defined a success as any player who pitched at least 40 innings in the majors the next year with an ERA below 5 (and yeah, I know ERA isn't the best stat for pitchers generally and relievers especially, but it's a way to keep things simple) or had at least 200 at bats in the majors with an OPS above .700. It didn't matter to me which team the player was with at the time.
Anyone who didn't meet those criteria is described as a "flop," even if that player stuck with his new organization and eventually had success. After all, if a team needs to hide a Rule 5 player on its bench or on "rehab" assignments in the minors, then the Rule 5 draft isn't doing its job. So in describing someone like Johan Santana as a flop, I'm obviously not saying he was a bad Rule 5 choice. I'm just saying he's not an example of the Rule 5 draft doing what it's designed to do.
(By the way, in some cases I'm dealing with pretty spotty data. I mostly used Baseball Reference, which is pretty reliable, but I'm worried that I somehow missed something or counted the wrong player if a player shares a name with another minor leaguer. So let me know if I missed something.)
1998
Successes: Scott Sauerbeck
Flops: 12
Notes: The Cardinals were probably pretty happy with catcher Alberto Castillo, whose OPS was a bit too low to make the cut.
1999
Successes: None
Flops: 17
Notes: Derrick Turnbow, who pitched 38 innings for Angels and posted a 4.74 ERA, narrowly missed the cut. Johan Santana was the second pick in the draft, but he posted a 6.49 ERA in 2000. Chris Reitsma was the last pick in the draft.
2000
Successes: Jay Gibbons, Jose Nunez
Flops: 8
Notes: Endy Chavez, taken with the fourth pick, hit .208/.238/.234 in 77 at bats for the Royals.
2001
Successes: Corey Thurman
Flops: 11
Notes: Miguel Asencio pitched 123.3 innings with a 5.11 ERA for the Royals, so you can chalk that up as a success if you want to. Jorge Sosa pitched 99.3 innings with a 5.53 ERA for the Devil Rays.
2002
Successes: D.J. Carrasco, Aquilino Lopez, Javier Lopez, Luis Ayala, Michael Neu, Chris Spurling, Matt Ford
Flops: 21
Notes: Wil Ledezma posted a 5.79 ERA in 84 innings for the Tigers. Matt Roney had a 5.45 ERA in 100.7 innings, also for the Tigers. Shane Victorino, Ronny Paulino and Adrian Brown were all chosen in the late rounds.
2003
Successes: Jeff Bennett, Luis Gonzalez (the Rockies middle infielder, not the Arizona slugger)
Flops: 18
Notes: You could probably also add Hector Luna to the "success" category; he posted a .249/.304/.364 line in 173 at bats for the Cardinals.
2004
Successes: Andy Sisco
Flops: 11
Notes: Marco Carvajal pitched 53 innings with a 5.11 ERA for the Rockies. D.J. Houlton pitched 129 innings with a 5.16 ERA for the Dodgers.
2005
Successes: Dan Uggla
Flops: 11
Notes: Fabio Castro pitched 31.7 innings with a 2.27 ERA for the Rangers and Phillies. Victor Santos pitched 115.3 innings with a 5.70 ERA for the Pirates.
2006
Successes: Joakim Soria, Josh Hamilton, Jared Burton, Kevin Cameron
Flops: 15
Notes: Jesus Flores hit .244/.310/.361 in 180 at bats as the Nationals' backup catcher. Jason Smith and Josh Phelps were both useful in the majors, but in more limited roles.
CONCLUSIONS:
Teams have had more success in the past two years identifying players like Uggla, Soria, and Hamilton who are not only have immediate success in the big leagues but are likely to stick there and continue to have success once their Rule 5 year is over. Whether that's the result of improved player evaluation by some franchises or just a sample-size fluke is open to debate.
What's not open to debate is that the Rule 5 draft does not work for the large majority of players selected. That is to say, it does not identify players who are ready to succeed in the majors and find playing time for those players.
In many cases, that simply means the player is offered back to his old team during Spring Training, or after a few poor innings. One or two more bad outings, and Evan Meek is likely to fall into that category. So in those situations, it's relatively harmless, at least to the player.
In other cases, though, the Rule 5 draft isn't harmless at all. How many Chris Sheltons have spent a year - or even a couple months - sitting on the major league bench when they could be playing in the minors? In Shelton's case, 2004 probably would have been a critical year for him. He'd hit fantastically in Class A ball and was promoted to Class AA down the stretch in 2003. He had yet to master that level, and the beginning of the 2004 season would've been a critical time in his development as he tried to figure out AA and, hopefully, AAA. Instead he spent the year not playing baseball much at all. Jose Bautista, too, missed an entire year of development.
It's impossible to guess what would have happened if things were different. It's nearly certain, though, that many Rule 5 players would have had better careers if they hadn't been drafted. How many Joakim Sorias or Dan Ugglas do there have to be to offset the damage done to those other guys' careers?
Even the cases of many of the "successes" are striking, I think. In 2002, there were seven "successes." Of those, only Luis Ayala has had a relatively good, sustained career. (Javier Lopez may yet; the others probably never will.) Maybe they just weren't very good to begin with, which isn't a data point in favor of the Rule 5. Or maybe the process messed them up in some way by assigning them to roles they weren't really ready for. Matt Ford, for example, was a starter in the minors until Milwaukee used him as a reliever in his Rule 5 year, then tried to let him start again in the minors once his Rule 5 year was over. The Blue Jays did the same to 2001 Rule 5 "success" Corey Thurman.
From looking over these drafts, it appears that the Rule 5 draft isn't fulfilling its purpose. This is not to say that the Pirates, or any other team, should avoid choosing in the Rule 5 draft as long as it exists. It's probably to the Pirates' advantage to pick an Evan Meek and see what happens. However, it is probably not to Evan Meek's advantage to see what happens - he'd be better off honing his craft in the minors. And as we saw yesterday, the Rule 5 draft often fails to help teams put the best baseball players on the field. Sometimes it does, but more often than not, what happens is that an unripe Jose Bautista sits on the bench for a year and limits his managers' tactical options. In a worst-case scenario, you have someone like Meek in an important situation out there trying to do something he can't yet do.
Maybe there need to be changes to the Rule 5 draft. I'm not quite sure what those should be, but just as a starting point for discussion, maybe it would be a good idea to:
1. Turn the 40-man roster into a 38- or 37-man roster. This would limit the number of roster spots teams could use on players they don't plan to use in the majors, and thus increase the number of Rule 5-eligible players who are ready for big-league roles.
2. Raise the price necessary to select a Rule 5 pick to, say, $250,000. This way, teams would have to be more certain of a Rule 5 pick's ability to play in the majors. (It might, however, have the unfortunate side effect of some terrible franchise like the Marlins leaving players unprotected on purpose just to collect free money.)
What does everyone think?
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comments
Comments
Rule 5 draft
You put a lot of work into that rule 5 article. Good job.
by Pauly on Apr 8, 2008 11:31 PM EDT 0 recs
Rule 5 Draft
The Rule 5 draft is made to order for a team like the Pirates.
Trying to rebuild through the June draft and international signings is going to take the Pirates a minimum of three or four years.
If the Pirates could evaluate talent and were willing to trade some of their supposed "marquee" players, they might be able to speed up the process by a year.
But if the Pirates really scouted every other organizations' players during the minor league season and had a "book" on every good prospect, they should be able to draft three to five players every December at the winter meetings.
The most they would have to pay for any player is $50,000. That is the price that must be paid for a player on a team's AAA roster who then must be kept on the Pirates' 25 man roster or be offered back to the team that they drafted him from. If taken back, the team would have to pay the Pirates $25,000.
That's pretty cheap for a player --- like Roberto Clemente or even a Dan Uggla. If we offer Meek back to Tampa Bay and they take him, they owe us $25,000. Or maybe we could give Tampa Bay a non-prospect and they would let us keep Meek.
If we knew every organizations' good players that are eligible to be drafted, we can draft players off AA and A rosters for our AAA and AA rosters, we can keep those players in the minor leagues all year, and we NEVER have to offer them back.
The Pirates simply need to have scouts who can evaluate talent and then have those scouts scour the other 29 organizations.
The Rule 5 draft is an excellent vehicle for finding talent and accelerating the development of those players.
But you have to have people who can evaluate talent.
by thegunner on Apr 8, 2008 11:39 PM EDT 0 recs
One way to protect the player's career would be to allow the drafting team to place him anywhere in its farm system, while leaving the major league roster spot vacant.
The union would certainly require that the player be paid as a major leaguer.
by Arnold Rothstein on Apr 8, 2008 11:51 PM EDT 0 recs
Right,
but then what is the point of the Rule 5 draft? If they allowed that, the current goal of the draft would be eliminated.
by DITO on
Apr 9, 2008 9:22 AM EDT
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It is a flawed system
The data (regardless of being a little messy) pretty clearly illustrates your point.
It is nice to have a system that spreads talent and gives more players an early shot at the bigs without being blocked, but it would be a little unrealistic to think it won't have a downside.
There are enough ways for a competent franchise to get good players (amateur draft, foreign signings, trades), so having the ability to take another team's 41st-best player doesn't make sense to me, anyway.
The Rule 5 draft provides some benefit for some teams, but just because it tends to help out clubs that have barren farm systems doesn't mean it is a good thing. Your suggestion to raise the price seems like it would help to get the draft on track to do what it is supposed to do, but it would still be a flawed system anyway.
I don't think it should exist.
by DITO on Apr 9, 2008 9:32 AM EDT 0 recs
I've long suspected Shelton's problem...
...had to do with lack of confidence or something like it. JJ Davis was another instance of the same problem.
Steve Z
by steve_z on Apr 9, 2008 9:47 AM EDT 0 recs
Split the difference?
How about -- the team that drafts the player must keep him on the 40 man all year, but can option him to the minors and don't need to call him up until a given date, like July 1st, and must remain in the majors the rest of the year. If he's not added to the 25-man by July 1st, he gets offered back. You can make it a little earlier too, like June 15. That way, the player gets another 70-80 games of development, but does need to be promoted and kept in the bigs at some point.
by azibuck on Apr 9, 2008 10:39 AM EDT 0 recs
That's an interesting idea. That way the year isn't a complete bust for the player, and the team gets a little bit of extra time to sort out what it wants to do. A team that's out of contention by July can allow a Rule 5 player to play at the big league level; if they're still in contention, they can just send the player back.
by Charlie on
Apr 9, 2008 4:54 PM EDT
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Excellent Work Charlie
Just what is the purpose of the rule 5 draft? The gambler (A. G.) proposes letting the selections play in the minors. DITO says this violates the point of the draft? Please explain how. It seems a good idea to me.
Charlie says cut the roster back to 37 or 38. This also seems a good idea, an idea aimed at creating a little bit of parity.
Anything that benefits the lower tier teams (and God knows we''ve been one of them for way too long) is good for baseball and the majority of its fans. Only the dynasties object.
by meandterry on Apr 9, 2008 10:45 AM EDT 0 recs
My take
is that the Rule 5, like Charlie said, is in place to identify major-league ready players who are being stockpiled in one system. In the original post, his failures are defined as someone who actually played at the major league level and posted at least not-horrible stats in one metric (OPS for hitters and ERA for pitchers) after being selected in the draft. Therefore it seems the vast majority of players were not major-league ready.
If you try and solve the problem by allowing a team to select a Rule 5 pick and keep him in the minors, that eliminates the one good thing the draft does--give players who can play in the majors and are blocked in their current system the opportunity to do so with another club.
Now maybe there is another purpose to the draft that I am leaving out, like leveling out the talent pool, but as basmati said below it doesn't have much of an effect in that respect. There are many better ways to get talent and if you can't do those how are you going to identify value in the Rule 5?
by DITO on
Apr 9, 2008 4:42 PM EDT
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get rid of it
Not sure I agree with your definition of success, but it is an interesting analysis. I had thought this draft was geared to guys like Bautista, who would suffer through the required season in the majors, but then go back down to the minors until they were ready. So measuring how they did the following year is not the best measure. But I certainly agree with your conclusion that it is likely bad for the players involved to waste a developmental year.
To me, the broader point is that the whole thing makes no sense. Originally, it was supposed to help weaker teams and keep teams like the Yankees from stockpiling talent. In today's game, though, it has the opposite effect. To compete, the small market teams need to depend on their farm systems and have a good supply of minor leaguers coming up, since not everyone is going to pan out. Those teams are going to be the ones that often have more than 40 worthwhile players and have to expose good prospects to the Rule 5 draft. The Yankees, by contrast, don't need a lot of depth in their farm system. They can always fill a hole with a free agent and they can more easily spend big signing bonuses so that their farm system has more can't miss players. When was the last time the Yanks or Red Sox lost anyone of consequence in the Rule 5 draft?
So ... I don't know what the point of the draft is anymore (or why the player should have to waste a year in the majors), but I wonder whether tweaking it by reducing the roster size or allowing the player to go straight to the minors would make things even worse for the lower tier teams.
by basmati on Apr 9, 2008 1:50 PM EDT 1 recs
batista
Does anyone remember other times the Pirates tried to keep a Rule 5 pitcher around? I guess Victor Santos was technically a Rule 5 guy, though he was a vet, and Sauerbeck was too. He was a pretty good pitcher that year. What I remember is that we tried to keep one under Leyland - I think it was 1992, the last time we were contenders. He mostly sat on the bench, if I remember right, but he wasn't ready for the majors. And about a month into the season, Leyland used him and he didn't pitch very well (I don't know if he cost us a game). Anyway, Leyland went bonkers afterwards and said he wasn't going to compete for a pennant with 24 guys and we sent him back to Montreal, I think. It was Miguel Batista, who turned into a decent pitcher, though he didn't make it back to the majors for a few years.
by basmati on Apr 9, 2008 1:59 PM EDT 0 recs
Rule 5
Maybe,if the club doesn't want to carry the Rule 5 player all season,they could have the option of either selling him back to his former team,or sending him to the minors;in that case paying a penalty to the team they aquired him from. The particular amounts of both the sale price and penalty payment could be determined by MLB.
by rissaldar on Apr 9, 2008 2:57 PM EDT 0 recs
We lost Bobby Bonilla and Bip Roberts
once upon a time in the Rule V draft. We traded Jose DeLeon to get Bonilla back, if memory serves me correctly.
Evan Meek will probably be as useful to the Pirates as Freddy Garcia was years ago.
It`s time for Meek to go back to Tampa Bay. I don`t give a hoot about the balance of lefties and righties in the pen as long as we have guys who can regularly get the job done.
by patthatt on Apr 10, 2008 1:57 AM EDT 0 recs
Special circumstances
Bonilla and Roberts both sustained serious injuries during an infield collision the year before they were drafted. Bonilla broke his leg; I don't remember exactly what Roberts hurt, but he was in pretty bad shape at the time, too. Since both injuries were considered potentially career-threatening, we gambled that both guys would be able to slip through the draft (like with Bautista), and we were wrong on both counts.
It's pretty much the biggest mistake Syd Thrift made as our GM.
by Vlad on
Apr 11, 2008 10:12 AM EDT
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