Huntington: .500 Finish Not a Goal

by Charlie on Jun 19, 2008 12:13 AM EDT Comment 15 comments

"The only time we hope to get to .500 is on our way past it," Huntington said. "It is not an end result. It is not a goal. If we have this club in place and we reach 82 wins en route to our higher destination, then so be it. But I will never be the general manager of a club that has a focus on winning 82 games."

He did allow for two exceptions.

One is if the team is in clear playoff contention. And, with how the Chicago Cubs are performing, that might mean monitoring the National League's wild-card race. The Pirates trail the St. Louis Cardinals by 7 1/2 games on that front...

The other exception would be if management determined, even if a playoff berth were out of the question, that the current group could improve. Given the general age of the group, though, that seems unlikely.

Glad to hear it. I can't believe Huntington is actually taking the Pirates' playoff hopes seriously--particularly after the last two games--and it's good to have some confidence that the Pirates will continue to pursue their long-term goals rather than pursue a .500 season with a team that isn't close to contending for the playoffs.

0 recs | Comment 15 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Might sound crazy

if somehow we can get something going before the all-star break and maybe get within 5 games in the wild card. It’s good Huntington is optimistic because we aren;t out of it YET

by thielcats on Jun 19, 2008 12:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Do you

ever watch any games?

by bucdaddy on Jun 19, 2008 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"We aren`t out of it yet."

Whoosh! Damn, that was a pig that just flew by my window.

by patthatt on Jun 19, 2008 8:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I guess it's aways possible...

...that everyone at the All-Star game will come down with Legionnaire’s Disease from tainted hotel ventilation.

If they pick someone expendable from our roster, you must admit that’d give us a decent shot in the second half.

by Vlad on Jun 19, 2008 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Huntington

Man, you guys would be great GMs … it would be wonderful to come out in June when the team is a a handful of games below .500 and still in playoff contention (mathematically reasonable, not realistically based on the team’s potential) and declare that the team is dead and has no shot… that would be great for already lagging attendance, not to mention the great reaction he would get from the press and the wonderful impact it would have on his clubhouse.

In his heart of hearts, and maybe long since resigned to a losing season even before Opening Day, Huntington knew what he had here. However, you can’t expect him to stand up in June and declare that the season’s over. There are actuallly ramification beyond the blogosphere.

by VanSlick on Jun 19, 2008 9:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

We're not criticizing NH's statement

but thielcat’s response to it. There’s a difference between optimism and wishful thinking.

by bucdaddy on Jun 19, 2008 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

True

I should have directed my comments more clearly at the intial post by Charlie… which was criticizing, or at least gently poking at, NH’s comments.

by VanSlick on Jun 19, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tough dilemma

The Pirates have been dancing around this question for years now—Do you blow it up or hold out hope for some miraculous finish? The fact is, hardly any team is totally out of contention for the wild card at mid-season, especially not in the NL right now. But the Pirates have consistently clung to the notion that this team isn’t so bad for years and years, and what is the result? This year the team doesn’t look as horrific as it did throughout most of DL’s tenure, no doubt because of the short term effect of finally having management that’s smarter than a turnip. But what happens when the team is hovering around 5-10 games under .500 year after year after year? Do you just keep putting off the inevitable forever? The reason we’re looking at 15 straight losing seasons now is that McClatchy and DL could never make the tough decision to blow it up and put everything into building up the team through young players. (Well, that and the fact that they were both incompetent on a biblical scale.) How long do you keep pursuing this same strategy that’s failed for 15 years now? How long do you put off that tough decision?

by WTM on Jun 19, 2008 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

.500

I definitely think this is the issue they face, and internally I hope they are nearing the conclusion that this is yet another lost season.

My point is I don’t think we should be asking NH to ever come out and declare this team is hopeless. Certainly, we can’t expect him to say it BEFORE a big move is made. What would be the benefit of making such a declaration? I see a lot of negatives to it, but outside of the characteristics of being frank and honest (which would only truly be appreciated by a handful of hardcore followers), it does very little good to the team and the organization.

by VanSlick on Jun 19, 2008 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe Huntington should just

try to sell much of his team on eBay and invest the proceeds in scouting the DR because there wasn’t any talent in our dugout yesterday. Russell started LaRoche, Gomez, 0-3-vas, and Chavez. What do you expect? This lineup isn’t going to score any runs. Then, couple its inability to score with Gorzo’s propensity for walking batters, and then toss in a real lineup with real hitters like the Sox have and you get yesterday’s results. I still cannot believe that Neil has not made any major deals. We are the same team that won only 68 games last year except that Snell and Gorzo have come down with a bad case of “Duke’s disease”. Just wait until Nady, Doumit, and McClouth have either mild or protracted slumps and we won’t be capable of beating Stanford.

by Illinois Pirate Fan on Jun 19, 2008 9:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Look around the league...

and tell me how many major deals have been done since the season started. Can you count them on a thumb? Look, in order to get a major deal with grade A major league talent, you have to have players people want. If the PBC had players people really want, they would have been gone BEFORE the season started. The reason Bay and Nady are still here is because they had to prove they were worth something besides grade B talent at best. The Pirates have to play well if they want to get perceived market value for every player they are dangling on the market. To wish this team loses games so they will blow it up isn’t the answer. Every loss under .500 just diminishes potential returns for the PBC. .

I wouldn’t knock Stanford, they knocked off the #1 team in NCAA baseball (Miami) yesterday.

by ElliottBayBucco on Jun 19, 2008 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you begin to compare the lack of other trades to our situation...

Then you have to examine the previous 15 years and that accomplishes nothing. The way successful trades are made is by out-working the other GM and obtaining information that he might not have. Standing pat on a team that won only 68 games is foolhardy. The only way you will see a significant improvement is if everybody had under-performed in the same season and that doesn’t happen. Your appoach simply allows us to establish the record for consecutive losing seasons and takes no steps towards the future. This only makes sense if you’re content with your current talent and if that’s how you feel then you shouldn’t be disappointed with another losing season. How poorly do we have to perform before you are willing to make deal? Monty Hall…you ain’t.

by Illinois Pirate Fan on Jun 19, 2008 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not going to slam the front office...

on June 19th. Am I content with the current talent level of the PBC? No. Do I want to see them make wise acquisitions through trades, the waiver wire and the draft? Yes. I do think you have to look around at what other MLB teams are doing now because they are who you are dealing with. Market value is what it is, no matter how much of a Pirates fan you are. Face it, the PBC has not been good, I know it and you know it. To think they are going to acquire top flight talent without the current players showing the ability to play better than before is pure fantasy. Look at the big trades this past off season, most of them involved prospects on one end of the deal for PROVEN big league talent. Who in their right mind is going to give you two or three A ball prospects for an infielder that is hitting .225???

Keep in mind, it isn’t how poorly a team has to perform for me to make a deal, but how much the OTHER guy wants my players and is willing to give me something of value.

Monty Hall I’m not, and I sure ain’t Bill Bavasi or Dave Littlefield for that matter!

by ElliottBayBucco on Jun 19, 2008 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do you really believe this team is just a player or two away...

from either being a contender or even a .500 team? I don’t think we are and when a team has such little talent it needs to dismantle itself and start over. I really don’t see one or two trades making much difference to this team because you have to give up talent to receive it and since we not going to sign any significant free-agents then we must either wipe the slate clean and start over or hope that each and every one of the next 5-7 drafts results in the acquisition of significant talent. The point I was trying to make was that Neil’s reluctance to make any significant trades has wasted this entire season. The only good thing he has done was to dump Morris. Coonely could have left Neil’s job vacant for an entire year and the team would be no different than it is today. Why not make some deals for younger talent and give the fans some hope for the future?

by Illinois Pirate Fan on Jun 20, 2008 10:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The point that I am trying to make is...

every single team out there has a much higher value of prospects than they have had in the past. Getting top flight talent for underachievers is not going to happen. Take the Bucco blinders off and look around the league. How do you expect Huntington to acquire younger talent when he doesn’t have much of a leverage point to work with. Dismantling a bad team and starting over is not as easy as you think it is or Kansas City, San Diego, San Francisco, Cincinnati, Washington, Seattle AND every other team underperforming in MLB would have done so by now.

No, I do not believe the Buccos are a contender. No, I don’t believe they are just a player or two away from getting to .500 or beyond. But I don’t believe there are as many great options out there for Huntington as you think there are. Bay and Nady were underachievers last season and need to prove themselves this season. Currently, the Pirates have the best combined offensive outfield production in MLB (McClouth, Bay and Nady). If they continue to produce until the deadline, Huntington will be able to acquire that top flight young talent you want. Patience…

by ElliottBayBucco on Jun 20, 2008 3:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs