Gorzelanny to Minors? Plus, Who Do the Rays Want?
General manager Neal Huntington, on his weekly radio show yesterday, said the Pirates would consider sending pitcher Tom Gorzelanny to Class AAA Indianapolis if he continues to falter.
"As hesitant as we would be to do something like that, yes, we would," Huntington said. "We have to figure out the best course of action to get him back to his potential ... Whether we can do that at the major league level -- we've got an enhanced program that we've already begun -- or that does take going to Indianapolis ... I'd say we're still a ways away from that, but the reality is that we have to help Tom Gorzelanny."
I'm hardly the first to say this, but it seems very likely that, when you combine Gorzelanny's abuse at the hands of Jim Tracy late last year, Gorzelanny's drop in velocity and his hideous performance so far this year (26 strikeouts and 37 walks? Yikes), something pretty serious is going on here. Rather than sending him down, I might just shut him down for a month even if the doctors couldn't find anything wrong with him. I'm not a doctor or a pitching coach, but usually, when a pitcher falls off a cliff like this, he's hurt.
-P- Also in the Post-Gazette today is a profile of high school shortstop Tim Beckham, who may be selected by the Pirates with the second pick of the draft, if the Rays don't take him first.
You know, it's funny to me that most reports now suggest that the Rays are most interested in Beckham and Florida State catcher Buster Posey, because if I were them, Pedro Alvarez is the player I'd want. He's widely regarded as the best hitter in the draft, and he can reach the majors quickly. I don't think a team like the Pirates should draft a player based on how fast he can reach the majors (as the Post-Gazette notes, that's how you get debacles like the Daniel Moskos selection); if they weigh these sorts of considerations at all, I think a team in the Pirates' position should actually favor players with lots of upside who are further from the majors. And I don't think the Rays should worry much about that stuff either.
But I do think that positional scarcity is an even less important consideration in the draft than closeness to the majors, and yet positional scarcity seems to be a major reason why the Rays are thought to have Beckham and Posey at the top of their board. Yes, Alvarez plays third base, and the Rays are set there with Evan Longoria and at first with Carlos Pena. But their current DH is Cliff Floyd, who's off to a decent start but has no future with the team. If Alvarez is the best hitter in the draft, why not grab him and let him split first base and DH duties with Pena when he's ready? I've never seen a real argument that Posey is a better hitter than Alvarez, and Beckham is a lot younger than most of the Rays' core of talent. Alvarez is exactly the right age to fit in with Longoria and B.J. Upton and Scott Kazmir and David Price. The Pirates, in my opinion, should be trying to stockpile very young talent in order to try to build a core; the Rays should be trying to get players to fit in with the core they already have.
Of course, maybe the Rays just don't like Alvarez that much. I don't know. But if I were them, I wouldn't let the fact that he plays third base stop me.
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I don't know...
I am very spit on who I like better between Beckham and Alvarez. Dejan and others bring up the mistakes of drafting players because they are closer to the majors, pointing at last year as one example, but last year they passed on a proven slugger. After all the grumbling about that for almost a year now, we are talking about passing on another proven hitter.
I know Beckham is a lot different than Moskos, but seriously, the fact that Alvarez is further along in his development isn’t the only reason to choose him over Beckham. Having a higher ceiling is just speculation, and is certainly no guarantee. Who is the better bet to be an impact player in the major leagues for a long time? I think the answer is Pedro Alvarez.
by DITO on Jun 2, 2008 9:37 AM EDT 0 recs
I'm indifferent
As long as they don’t pass on Alvarez AND Beckham AND Posey and take the fourth-best pitcher, I’m fine with that. Once we’re done here it’s time to focus on blowing this thing up. As of this moment only two teams in MLB (Seattle, Colorado) are farther out of first place than we are. It’s time to stop pretending this team will be contending and hit the mall.
by bucdaddy on Jun 2, 2008 9:58 AM EDT 0 recs
This drives me crazy
In the P-G wrap of yesterday’s game, on the subject of Snell’s outing, JR is quoted as saying
“I thought if you take away the five-run inning, he pitched OK…”
Dude! Maybe it’s OK compared to the crap Snell and Gorzo have been flinging up there over the last few weeks, but when you give up a five run inning, you’re obviously not doing something right. I don’t expect our guys to be perfect every single outing, but I don’t see any marked improvement from start to start… It’s like Groundhog Day out there!
Look, I’m not expecting for JR to rip his team a new one during these press conferences. It would be terrible for morale and all of that. But at the same time, it’s like saying the Hindenburg was a success, if you take away that fire…
Then, Snell whines about the umpire. Snell, buddy, that just reeks of desperation. Maybe there were some close calls, but when you prove that you can pitch with an ump that isn’t so tough, then you might earn a little bitching and moaning.
All I know is that Gorzo pitches tonight, and I might have to start smoking crack to deal with it…
.500 or bust...
by phillybucco on Jun 2, 2008 10:50 AM EDT 0 recs
Snell is definately terrible right now
but there were probably 5 or so pitches Snell threw called balls that were actually in the zone. And, Looper seemed to get some favorable calls on the corners as well.
by DITO on
Jun 2, 2008 11:47 AM EDT
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I get that
but it just comes across as whiny, especially since he hasn’t been sharp for most of the season… He didn’t really “earn” the plate. Of course, Looper wasn’t exactly rockin’ yesterday, either, but I’m sure he didn’t go crying about it.
.500 or bust...
by phillybucco on
Jun 2, 2008 12:20 PM EDT
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You are right,
whether it is fair or not, when a pitcher is struggling umpires usually seem to work them a little harder. If you have pinpoint location, they seem to give you another inch on each side of the plate. And I agree, Snell should know not to whine about the ump when he has 18 walks in his last 26 innings. I just wanted to point out that he really was getting screwed.
by DITO on
Jun 2, 2008 1:08 PM EDT
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When pitchers begin to...
Lose significant velocity then it means that they have some sort of arm troubles whether it’s structural and in need of surgery or simply needs some rest. Snell seems to have retained his speed and so his problem might be mechanical but Gorzo has lost that zip off his fast ball and his control is shot. Pitching at Indy isn’t going to help him. Baseball Prospectus pointed out that problem over a month ago and stated they thought he needed to be shutdown for an entire month rather than just miss one start. Our starting staff is terrible as a whole and so I begin to look at our pitching coach to ask if he’s doing his job properly. There is no way that our starting staff should be the worst in baseball and I lay this problem at the feet of management.
by Illinois Pirate Fan on
Jun 2, 2008 12:36 PM EDT
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I think pitching at Indy may help
if he is on a pitch count. If he can run out there every fifth day, in a low pressure situation where his isn’t hurting the big club, he can try to work on some things, attack hitters, throw his breaking ball in the zone, etc. Meanwhile, he can be limited to something like sixty pitches. If he is down there a month or so and only throws 60 pitches a week I think that qualifies as rest.
Shutting him down offers more rest, sure, but that only really makes sense if he is hurt. I know the warning signs are there, but I have a tendency to believe that if Gorzo was in pain he would say so. I guess they could do both. It certainly wouldn’t hurt him to go on one 15-day DL stint, then go on a rehab assignment with a pitch count.
by DITO on
Jun 2, 2008 1:16 PM EDT
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Pure Speculation!
How many Pirate ‘fans’ have seen the top three draft picks IN PERSON? Not many.
We just have to hope that enough scouts and cross-checkers have.
This Thursday and Friday will be the second real test for the C & H boys.
Their first test was what they did during the off-season. The answer was nothing significant. But let’s give them the benefit of the doubt in that they felt last year’s team underperformed and wanted to see what they could do under new and improved management.
Has there been a significant difference?
Now let’s see what happens in Florida, not only with the first pick, but with picks two through 30.
We’ll know the results … in about two to four years!!!
by thegunner on Jun 2, 2008 11:02 AM EDT 0 recs
Alvarez
I read somewhere recently that a big-league scout(not with the Pirates),said that Alvarez can’t hit lefties. Anyone else know anything about that…..?
by rissaldar on Jun 2, 2008 3:19 PM EDT 0 recs
Who picks directly after the Pirates?
The scout might work for them!
Steve Z
by steve_z on
Jun 2, 2008 6:15 PM EDT
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Maybe I've been Keith Law'd to death but
he really seems to think the best player available is Beckham. What’s up with Alvarez barely hitting .300 this year in like 160 at-bats or so? I know about the hamate and that numbers don’t always tell the story but I wish he’d hit more than what, nine homers. Let’s hope rounds 2 to 50 turn out better than before.
by JimBibbySweat on Jun 2, 2008 5:50 PM EDT 0 recs
I think you were just bringing it up,
and not necessarily putting a ton of stock in to those last 160 at-bats, but if they do mean that much then Buster Posey should be the easy pick because he has been raking.
by DITO on
Jun 2, 2008 6:01 PM EDT
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