Cardinals 11, Pirates 6 - The Bullpen Strikes Again
You know, these 1990s-Rockies-style games the Pirates have played recently are exciting occasionally, but they're exhausting, and you feel for the pitchers, and there reaches a point where you think, "Another home run? Booooring!"
Ian Snell got through the first couple innings of this one without a problem, but then the trainer came out for reasons that weren't immediately clear, and then he put a bunch of runners on and somehow allowed a three-run homer to Aaron Miles.
The Pirates managed to battle back and eventually even pull ahead 6-5. If the score had stayed that way, Sean Burnett would've been the game's MVP not for his pitching, but for starting a rally with a double in the sixth, then keeping it going by darting off third while Nate McLouth was stuck in a rundown. Both runners were safe, and Chris Gomez brought them both home with a double that gave the Pirates the lead.
Unfortunately, Franquelis Osoria entered the game after that, and you can guess how that went. T.J. Beam and Tyler Yates then pitched and allowed runs, too. Part of the problem, surely, is the amount of work this bullpen has had recently, but another part is that John Russell just doesn't have any good options right now besides Damaso Marte, who can only pitch so much. (John Grabow seems to be battling some minor injury.) If your best options in close games include people like Burnett or Beam, or even people like Yates, the manager really isn't the problem.
In the grand scheme of things, the bullpen just isn't that important, and in a way I'm glad Neal Huntington recognized that this offseason and didn't spend a bunch of money on relievers. This team wouldn't be a playoff contender either way.
There's a good article about the Rays (via Primer) in a Tampa paper today that shows why, although it's natural to get worked up when watching a game, it's not a great idea to waste a lot of energy worrying too much about the Pirates' bullpen. Rays GM Andrew Friedman spent two years trading for prospects before he started sweating the small stuff:
Between the talent inherited and acquired, Friedman realized last winter the Rays were ready to take a step forward. That meant filling in particular pieces of the puzzle...
So — and here's that intelligent risk thing — they traded [outfielder Delmon] Young for shortstop Jason Bartlett and pitcher Matt Garza. Between acquiring Bartlett and moving Akinori Iwamura to second base, the Rays figured their middle infield defense would improve dramatically. And it has...
"The Delmon trade really started our transformation because of the areas we were able to address," Friedman said. "The first two years, knowing we couldn't compete, was just collecting as many players as we could irrespective of fit. The pendulum shifted this offseason, and the emphasis became much more about constructing a 25-man roster. We felt we finally had enough talent in the organization that it was time to move past making moves in a vacuum and to start viewing all subsequent moves in the context of what it would mean in terms of run scoring and run prevention."
The Pirates aren't even at the point on the "pendulum" where the Rays were when Friedman arrived, because they don't have nearly as much young talent as the Rays did. So the Pirates' primary goal right now needs to be to acquire as much high-end talent as possible. And, really, that's it. If the best way to get talent in deadline trades is to acquire outfielders, you should go ahead and acquire them, even if you already have some good outfielders.
I shake my head a little when I see someone say that, for example, if the Pirates trade Jack Wilson, they need to get a shortstop back in return. No, they don't. Yes, putting up with 0-for-3vas and Brian Bixler the rest of the year would be annoying, but it won't be anywhere near as painful as yet another losing season in, say, 2012. The Pirates simply aren't yet at the stage where they "need" a shortstop, or a third baseman, or whatever. It's like you haven't showered for a month and you're getting ready to go to the prom, and instead of getting clean, you put on your tux and ask your brother if your bow tie is crooked. Yes, it'd be nice if it were straight, but you're asking the wrong question.
A bad bullpen is like the crooked bow tie. Yes, you probably want to fix that before you stand in front of that trellis to have your picture taken, but you're never going to get your date to go to the trellis with you if you've got pizza sauce clinging to your peach fuzz and you smell like death.
So, painful as it might be to watch, and even though I personally have complained about it, I think Huntington has basically handled the bullpen the right way. He didn't hand out free agent contracts; instead, he just went with the guys he had and acquired a bunch of live arms to fill up spots in the majors and AAA. Evan Meek isn't working? Fine; how about Marino Salas? Not so good? How about Denny Bautista? Or Beam? Whatever. Just shuffle through them. (And, by the way, Romulo Sanchez was demoted today.) The one mistake I think Huntington made was in trading Todd Redmond for Yates, but even then one could probably make the argument that Yates had some upside despite being older, because his arm was so good.
Of course, the other, more important prong of the plan is that the Pirates need to acquire young talent and not worry about anything other than whether it's good, and on that count, we're still waiting. Hopefully, the Bucs' behavior at the deadline and in the last few weeks they have to sign draft picks will tell us a lot.
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Signing draft picks
I was listening to the game on the radio today and they mentioned that NH had stated that he wasn’t too optimistic about signing Justin Wilson. The Pirates had put the final offer on the table and that it was all in Wilson’s hands now. Don’t have a link or anything about this, perhaps others know more than I do.
by Chester J Lampwick on Jul 13, 2008 6:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Dejan confirms the bad news on Wilson
Justin Wilson is apparently unlikely to sign; he’s asking for a lot more money after his CWS heroics. This seems like a dumb move on his part. After the heavy use over the last few weeks of the college season, he’s probably more likely to get hurt, and there’s not much he could do next year to raise his price any more than the Pirates are willing to pay now.
The silver lining is that Wilson’s money will be going to other draft picks, and that the Pirates are “focused on signing” sixth-round pick Robbie Grossman.
by shayborg on Jul 14, 2008 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with...
everything you said. But wow, the Pirates are a dirty, smelly prom date? Where is the .500 mark in this analogy? Clean underwear?
Charlie, out of the teams and players mentioned in rumors to date (Yankees, RedSox, Dodgers, Rays, Diamondbacks, etc.) what moves would you like to be made. Give me your trade wish list please.
by Slick1 on Jul 13, 2008 6:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think the .500 mark
is getting a date to the prom from outside of the family. It’s a notable occurrence and a step in the process, but if you’re not ready to land the eagle, what’s the point?
by BadMaafala on Jul 14, 2008 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I just think it’s time to look at other options (if they be internal, so be it)...
Osoria & Salas (when he was up here) have been horrible.
Isn’t there anyone else in AAA that could be called up?
Anyone?
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
by UtesFan89 on Jul 13, 2008 7:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think there are
too many other pitchers we haven’t tried yet. Basically we’ve exhausted all of our options. It just comes down to the past 5 years, we have done a terrible job in harvesting pitching talent in the minors. Everyone who has come through the system is here, or has been given a shot.
Our minor league system is just so thin right now. Hopefully we can use this trade deadline to help restock our system so we will have more options for the future.
http://northsidenotch.blogspot.com
by northsidenotch on Jul 13, 2008 7:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We've gotten to the point
where we are not only short of capable pitchers…but we’re also short of healthy pitchers…capable or otherwise.
by Thunder on Jul 13, 2008 7:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not too much to speak of...
other than Barthmaier. What’s the deal with Perez has he been hurt this year?
by Slick1 on Jul 13, 2008 7:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If you remember
he was hurt at the end of last year…and during spring training. The Pirates cut him from the 40 man in spring training, knowing they’d have to pay for his medical stuff. He’s just gotten back to pitching at Indy in the past 2 weeks. (5 IP, 3 H, 8 K’s)
by Thunder on Jul 13, 2008 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know what he did, but ...
Shawn Chacon doesn’t have a job. He’s being blackballed, obviously, because we could just as obviously use a guy who would put up six poor innings and spare the pen rather than four terrible innings (Herrera, JVB, etc.) and burn it.
Just sayin’.
Actually, I’m amazed the Nats haven’t picked him up. They have crazier people already.
by bucdaddy on Jul 13, 2008 7:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Man...
I’d rather see JVB get ripped all year than pick up that horses’ ass again. Has anyone claimed Borowski yet? I wouldn’t be surprised if we see if he has anything in that weak ass arm left. Anyone else of interest out there on the waiver wire?
by Slick1 on Jul 13, 2008 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most of the people that go on waivers
we don’t see, unless the team decides to release them. Until someone is DFA’d, we in the public don’t have a clue that someone is available.
by Thunder on Jul 13, 2008 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Borowski...
he couldn’t be much worse than Wreck Specks… could he?
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
by UtesFan89 on Jul 13, 2008 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Borowski is awful.
We need to focus on finding good options. Or at least decent ones.
by Vlad on Jul 14, 2008 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about the guys
we got from Cleveland just recently. Aren’t they relievers?
Borowski’s out there. Oscar Villarreal. Rick Bauer.
yeah….
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
by UtesFan89 on Jul 13, 2008 9:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The guys from Cleveland...
are pretty much AAA fillers. I don’t think they were picked up to provide depth on the major league roster. I can’t believe I’m about to write this but taking a chance on slipping Bullington through waivers doesn’t look like it was such a good idea now.
by Slick1 on Jul 13, 2008 9:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Anyone think....
...Matt Morris would make a decent reliever about now?
by Brakeman8 on Jul 13, 2008 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not me.
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- HST
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 13, 2008 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most of the guys that have been coming up
seem like AAA fillers though.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
by UtesFan89 on Jul 13, 2008 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't seem to me that the bullpen had been the most important problem
this year but rather it has been the starting pitching. If Snell and Gorzo had been as effective as they were last year we’d be celebrating a darn good season so far. The bullpen has looked worse than it actually is because instead of getting a decent 6 or 7 innings out of most of our starters we often get a bad 4 or 5 or even less so the back end of the pen has been pitching many many more innings than they otherwise would.
I really shudder at how bad this could get after the break if we can’t find someone other than Mahlom to provide a decent start most times out.
by WestCoastBuc on Jul 13, 2008 9:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That does seem to be the problem
...
the fatigue is catching up to them, and they’re blowing games as a result.
they need to find more relievers or starters to help with the problem though.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
by UtesFan89 on Jul 13, 2008 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
that’s where I’m coming from too. I don’t see the rotation getting better this year. I think Snell picks it up but Gorzo is a mess, I’m n ot sold on Dumatrait and I have a bad feeling Duke’s luck is going to run out in the 2nd half. He strikes no one out and puts a ton of people on base. Sooner or later that’s gotta catch up with you especially when you throw in the 88-90 range.
by Slick1 on Jul 13, 2008 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The trick...
...is that you never end up with 100% of your guys being as effective as they were last year. If Snell and Gorzo had been able to repeat, it would’ve been Capps and Maholm falling back, or Nady and Nate. That’s why the depth that comes from a quality player development system is so important.
by Vlad on Jul 14, 2008 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Expecting consistent production from your top two starting pitchers doesn't seem to be too much to ask
by DITO on Jul 14, 2008 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, let's see.
Check the rest of the division.
Chicago: Top two starters in ‘07 were Carlos Zambrano (3.95) and either Ted Lilly (3.83) or Rich Hill (3.92). Zambrano has pitched well this year, but Lilly’s ERA is up to 4.68, and Hill completely lost his control and got sent to AAA.
St. Louis: Top two starters in ‘07 were Wainwright (3.70) and Looper (4.94 – the best of a bad lot). Looper has been better (4.25), but Wainwright has missed more than a month with a torn tendon in his pitching hand, with no end in sight.
Houston: Top two starters in ‘07 were Oswalt (3.18) and either Wandy Rodriguez (4.58) or Chris Sampson (4.59). This year, Oswalt has inexplicably collapsed (4.56), Rodriguez has done well (3.48), and Sampson lost his rotation spot in late May but has been OK-ish since (4.50).
Milwaukee: Top two starters in ‘07 were Sheets (3.82) and Gallardo (3.67). This year, Sheets has been great (2.85), but Gallardo had season-ending knee surgery after only three games.
Cincinnati: Top two starters in ‘07 were Harang (3.73) and Arroyo (4.23). Harang has declined seriously this year (4.76), while Arroyo has totally fallen apart (5.97).
In that context, I think it seems pretty clear that expecting consistent production from your top two starting pitchers IS, in fact, too much to ask, since none of our direct competitors has managed to turn the trick, either.
by Vlad on Jul 15, 2008 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
.500
If the Pirates play .500 ball the rest of the way, they will have their best record since 1997 and the heady days of Tony Womack. Not a winning team, but something to build on. I agree that Duke may get lit up in the second half, but Maholm and Snell will pick up the slack.
by Omnibarn on Jul 14, 2008 4:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If we need an emergency option in the pen...
...I wouldn’t mind taking a look at Matt Miller. Not a long term solution, at his age, but he might be passable for a year or two.
by Vlad on Jul 14, 2008 11:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
JVB
why can’t convert him to bullpen help…he did alright in the appearance he made out of the pen. Maybe doing that will get him comfortable to where he can start. It seems that he does fine in AAA and blows up here. If he can’t make it in the pen I would send him the way of Bullington. Cut our ties of a very old prospect
by .500 Please on Jul 14, 2008 6:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Things are so dire for rotation depth right now...
...they probably don’t think they can spare him. I agree that he’d be a much better fit there.
by Vlad on Jul 15, 2008 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
New York Post report
says Pirate scouts are looking at Russ Ohlendorf. The man throws hard and can get strikeouts but is he anything more than a relief pitcher or is there a chance he could develop into a starter. The report says we are looking at him in case things heat up with either Nady or Marte. No mention of any other players we are interested in.
by Slick1 on Jul 14, 2008 9:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Meh.
Hittable college righty, 25-years-old, probably looks like a #4/#5 at best if he’s in the rotation. Doesn’t have standout stuff, and got hammered in his first extended big-league look earlier this year (7 HR and 19 BB in only 40 IP).
I don’t see him carrying a deal for either Nady or Marte. Either they wonder about him as a possible second player in a deal, or the Post is wishcasting, or they want to feel him out as potential emergency rotation help in a different (smaller) deal.
by Vlad on Jul 15, 2008 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
??
And just which team has a possible 1or 2 that they are going to give up for Nady? I am in the camp of offering Marte arbitration if he will get us 2 picks.
by buccoben on Jul 15, 2008 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with arb/picks...
...is that you need to factor in the cost of signing them. The bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
I don’t think we need to get a #1 starter back for Nady, but Ohlendorf is one step above waiver-bait. It’d be like cutting Nady outright.
by Vlad on Jul 15, 2008 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
i don’t think any of our players end up a met unless it’s a 3 way deal
by johnnycuff on Jul 15, 2008 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ohlendorf is a Yankee
But you’re probably right about the Mets. The only guy they have who really fits our needs is Niese, and honestly, I think we can probably do better elsewhere.
by Vlad on Jul 15, 2008 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oops
wrong new york.
it’s going to be hard for the mets to deal with anyone, unless they’re willing to deal from the rotation or a major piece like reyes or wright. i suppose heilman could go since he wants to be a starter and won’t get the chance there. the mets are in really bad shape. i wouldn’t be surprised if minaya gets canned before christmas.
by johnnycuff on Jul 15, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heilman's trade value is way down
Between the way he’s struggled this year and the fact that he’s burned almost all of his pre-arb time, he shouldn’t bring back all that much.
by Vlad on Jul 15, 2008 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I here Favre is looking for a team
He has a good arm and accuracy….maybe he can be a set up guy
by .500 Please on Jul 15, 2008 12:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
LOL, good suggestion
and it is hard to imagine him doing much worse than some of the guys we have sent out there but I don’t think he would sign unless we promised to give him a chance to start.
by WestCoastBuc on Jul 17, 2008 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He likes throwing the ball to the other team...
how would he be able to keep that up?
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
by UtesFan89 on Jul 17, 2008 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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