Odds and Ends

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 26, 2008 10:35 PM EDT

-P- Jeff Karstens will join the Pirates' rotation very soon, perhaps replacing John Van Benschoten, who was smacked around again tonight. Also, Ross Ohlendorf will also soon join the rotation, but he'll pitch for a while at Indianapolis first because he's been pitching in relief a lot recently.

-P- From the same link, the Pirates haven't chosen a closer yet, but they hope it won't be a patchwork situation--they want someone to win the job. Tyler Yates as closer has the potential to be a complete debacle, and yet he's got to be one of the leading candidates.

-P- Mariners fans think Jarrod Washburn will be joining the Yankees as well.

-P- The Brewers came back to beat the Astros, grabbing a share of first place in the NL Central.

UPDATE: Thunder catches this, in which Will Carroll reports that Phil Coke was the player who flunked the physical. If that's the case, why did the Pirates toss George Kontos back? Coke is just roster filler, and so is Karstens; one wonders why the Yankees wouldn't have just agreed to exchange the two. I'd rather have Kontos than Daniel McCutchen, since Kontos is a bunch younger.

-P- And Joe Sheehan weighs in. There are a couple errors in his post that can make it a bit confusing to read, but I agree with the general outline:

While 2008 is a lost year for Tabata, he represents the type of talent the Pirates have generally had problems getting into the system: young, high-upside with superstar potential and some risk involved. It’s not clear what he’s going to become, but what he could become is more impressive than any other Pirate prospect’s ceiling. This is the type of deal Neal Huntington needed to make. Considering that he flipped an impending free agent (Marte) and a player having a career half, this is a very good deal for the Pirates...

This is an indelicate comparison, but if you want the optimistic viewpoint, think about Hanley Ramirez, who put up a desultory 2005 season in Double-A, creating whispers similar to what we’ve heard about Tabata. Three years later, Ramirez is as close to untouchable as any player in the game. That’s the kind of talent Huntington is trying to add to the Yankees [obviously, he means "Pirates"], and if the name and the performance aren’t thrilling to Pirates fans, the thought process and the approach should be.

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Will Carroll at Baseball Prospectus

says Coke is the player that flunked the physical.

by Thunder on Jul 26, 2008 11:23 PM EDT reply actions

Weird… then why in the world did the Bucs throw Kontos back?

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 26, 2008 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Might have had no choice

I know the report was that the Pirates could choose from a list, but it may not have been quite that simple. If it was two out of Karstens, Coke, Kontos and McCutchen, I can’t imagine they wouldn’t have taken the last two to begin with. There were probably certain combinations they had to take.

by WTM on Jul 27, 2008 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions

I like McCutchen over Kontos, anyway

Kontos has more pure stuff, but he’s also missed time with shoulder problems in the past, and in my book it’s a real black mark against him that he got arrested (for what amounts to “excessive partying”) in his first year as a pro.

McCutchen has enough pure stuff to be a good starter, which we’ll need, and he’s supposed to be intensely competitive. Competitiveness is probably THE single most important psychological trait in determining which pitchers succeed and which don’t.

I’m OK with McCutchen not having a star-level ceiling, because I think he’s almost a sure bet to be at least useful, and as such he moderates some of the risk associated with having a guy like Tabata in the trade.

My $0.02, anyway.

by Vlad on Jul 27, 2008 12:40 AM EDT reply actions

Bullington gone,

JVB hopefully done in a Pirate uniform,

Osoria should follow soon afterwards.

This organization needs to get rid of as many of the mistakes of previous management as possible before we can really move on.

by patthatt on Jul 27, 2008 12:46 AM EDT reply actions

interesting

your fan post would seem to contradict that statement. no harm in letting him pitch in aaa without better options.

by johnnycuff on Jul 27, 2008 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions

I meant I don`t want to see him

in Pittsburgh anymore. I don`t see how JVB`s future is of any real importance, but he is a decent AAA pitcher since you are interested.

by patthatt on Jul 27, 2008 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions

I still want a look...

...at JVB in short relief.

by Vlad on Jul 28, 2008 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions

Vlad

I agreed with you before about JVB, but now I`m leaning toward just letting the guy get a new start elsewhere in 2009. Maybe he has the physical ability to be a useful reliever, but what about the mental aspect of one failure after the other over many years in Pittsburgh?

by patthatt on Jul 28, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions

I mean, I want a look at him this year.

There are still a couple months of season left – more than enough to figure out whether he has a future in relief with us, or not.

by Vlad on Jul 28, 2008 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions

i agree

but starter or reliever, his walk rate is just killer. according to dejan, huntington shares your curiosity. i hope it works out for him.

by johnnycuff on Jul 28, 2008 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions

I initially didn't like this trade all that much. However,

I am starting to come around to it. We are getting some interesting talent here.

Here is how www.minorleagueball.com ranked them within the Yankees system before the 2008 season:

2. Jose Tabata – B+
...
10. Dan McCutchen – C+ (for comparison, Brad Lincoln was also rated C+)

Ohlendorf was ranked the 9th best prospect in the Yankees’ system by BA before the season (he wasn’t ranked by minorleagueball).

McCutchen and Ohlendorf won’t be impact pitchers but if they can be solid then this is a pretty good addition. I mean let’s face it, nobody was going to give us top of the rotation type prospects for Nady/Marte and I don’t blame them. I think this is a pretty fair trade.

One interesting thing about it is, Marte and Nady are both having great seasons, while Ohlendorf and Tabata are having poor seasons. It appears that we are exchanging two guys at max value for two guys whose ‘value curve’ is at a minimum. In other words, we are trying to buy low and sell high. If Tabata and Ohlendorf had excelled this year I’d doubt we could have got them. For a team with limited resources like us, these are exactly the types of moves that should be made. Our acquisitions of guys like Michaels, Mientkiewicz, D. Bautista and Yates probably also fall into this category.

by houksyndrome on Jul 27, 2008 1:41 AM EDT reply actions

About backinthebay

Charlie … when I went to Wikipaedia (sp?) to see what “trolling” is, there was a picture of backinthebay. Only keeeeeeding!

by thegunner on Jul 27, 2008 1:52 AM EDT reply actions

Lost in the trade excitement...

was this little nugget about the Bucs 6th round pick Robbie Grossman:

* OF Robbie Grossman, the Pirates’ sixth-round draft pick from Cy-Fair High School in Cypress, Texas, took batting practice at PNC Park prior to Saturday’s night game and opened some eyes by driving a ball over the right-field stands. Grossman, who has signed a letter of intent to play at the University of Texas, said he is "50-50" on whether he will sign with the Pirates by the Aug. 15 deadline

Wonder if he can be swayed to forego the Longhorns and get his pro career going? Better yet, wonder if the PBC will throw the $$$ his way to make those 50-50 odds improve?

by ElliottBayBucco on Jul 27, 2008 2:02 AM EDT reply actions

It seems even remaining unsigned Pirate pick

wants a King’s Ransom…....you can’t afford everybody.

by Bad Andy on Jul 27, 2008 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions

Hmmm

According to Sheehan:

Tabata > Andrew McCutchen

Perhaps not….

Steve Z

by steve_z on Jul 27, 2008 11:20 AM EDT reply actions

Tabata vs McCutchen

I have seen McCutchen play in person, and I watched Tabata’s two ABs on You Tube.

I would say that they are very comparable in their abilities, and both should help the Pirates significantly IF they are developed and handled properly.

by thegunner on Jul 27, 2008 11:50 AM EDT reply actions