Rays, Bucs Talking About Jason Bay
by Charlie on Jul 30, 2008 3:43 PM EDT
46 comments
The Post-Gazette reports. Names that have come up include Jeremy Hellickson, Reid Brignac, Fernando Perez and Jeff Niemann. Of the four, Hellickson is probably the most interesting; his numbers at Class A+ this year were just unreal. I don't like Brignac as much as most do--his reputation and his performance haven't matched up at all recently. Perez would be a throw-in at best. Niemann isn't a bad prospect, but he's 25 and still in the minors. If any of the last three are the centerpiece of a deal for Bay, I'll be pretty disappointed.
The P-G also says the Cardinals are talking to the Bucs about Bay too, but that they're unwilling to give up Colby Rasmus. In that case, the Pirates have nothing to talk to them about, in my opinion.
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Rasmus
would have to be in that deal for sure.
by Reddrummer9187 on Jul 30, 2008 3:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
Unless they’re willing to move that Pujols felllow…
by Vlad on Jul 30, 2008 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also
according to rotoworld, seattle claimed luis munoz off waivers. yes, former bucco for a day luis munoz.
no way bay goes to st. louis. chances are the bucs are only mentioning them as leverage against the rays.
by johnnycuff on Jul 30, 2008 3:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Keith Law was on ESPN radio a half hour ago
He said Hellickson would be the main guy to ask for, but the Bucs may not be able to pry him, and he seemed to believe Bay for Wade Davis and Reid Brignac would be a trade to think about.
I would hope that they could get one or two more players-young, lower-level prospects-in addition to that. After Davis’s down year I don’t think I would be too happy with just those two for Bay.
by DITO on Jul 30, 2008 4:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder
if that was actually offered, because I feel like they probably would have taken it (with a couple lesser prospects). Could be all to pry Rasmus…
by Reddrummer9187 on Jul 30, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
Jayson Stark said Hellickson, Price & Davis are off limits.
via MLBTR
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
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Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 30, 2008 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Without one of those three...
...I don’t think we have a deal.
by Vlad on Jul 30, 2008 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
charlie:
The word going around St. Louis is that if Carpenter has a good outing tonight that the team might try to offer Lohse in hopes of landing some relief pitching. Has anybody considered offering Marte for him? I realize that Lohse will be a FA at the end of the season but the deal could be predicated upon our ability to sign him. I know he’s 29 but we could get 4-5 years out of him and allow us to stay respectable while we continue to build for the future. The Cardinals are in such need for left-handed relief that they just might jump at the deal.
by Illinois Pirate Fan on Jul 30, 2008 4:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
1. we don’t have marte any more.
2. st. louis wouldn’t trade a starting pitcher for a reliever.
3. huntington isn’t dumb enough to trade for lohse in the first place. if he is i’ll eat the ‘n’ and ‘h’ keys on my keyboard.
by johnnycuff on Jul 30, 2008 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, I meant to type Grabow
Grabow and not Marte. My mistake.
by Illinois Pirate Fan on Jul 30, 2008 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously?!?!?
Aren’t you still having problems with the Nady & Marte trade to the Yankees? We get three pitchers and a high upside outfield prospect in the aforementioned deal and you want to trade Grabow for a pitcher that will be a free agent at the end of the year. Dave Duncan worked his magic with Lohse this season and I have a feeling that the pixie dust he used to get him back on track is about to wear off. Think Tampa, unless St. Louis wants to up their ante (Rasmus)!
by ElliottBayBucco on Jul 30, 2008 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bingo
No Rasmus, no deal. And while I don’t think you worry about trading a guy within the division when you are at the Pirates stage of “rebuilding”, it is one more reason not to deal with St. Louis if Rasmus isn’t in the deal.
The variety of “leaks” from the Pirates (I know some of these aren’t from the team) these last few days are not a coincidence for a team that has kept everything very close to the vest. These are attempts to leverage Tampa, who is clearly the best trading partner in a Bay deal. If the Cardinals are really in it, it has to be because we suspect that they will – at the last minute – include Rasmus. I haven’t paid real close attention, but I understand Rasmus has had a down year, and now he’s hurt, so perhaps the “untouchable” tag by the Cards is an attempt to inflate his value.
Good day.
by Uncle Nate on Jul 30, 2008 4:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Fortunately, his injury isn't serious.
Just a sprain. When he got hurt, his dad thought it was torn.
by Vlad on Jul 30, 2008 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't Trade Bay
Bay is our best player, and has been for years, and if we wanted to lock him up, would be for years to come. The Pirates should only trade him if they’re blown away, and from the things I’m reading, Tampa isn’t doing that.
In my opinion, we should be trying to sign him long term. He is the only player on the roster who deserves the money, and, if we’re going to spend it, it should be on the face of the franchise. I was fine with letting Nady go, but thats because I don’t think hes in the same ballpark as Bay on a year in, year out basis.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Jul 30, 2008 4:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
But if you dont trade a player of Bay’s caliber, then you dont get players of Rasmus’s caliber in trades. Re-signing Bay doesn’t make sense because then you are paying money to a guy who will be past his peak when you are hopefully competing.
by Reddrummer9187 on Jul 30, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree. Bay should be traded. Jack Wilson should be traded as well. if someone would give them $5 for Freddy Sanchez he should go too.
also, the Marte/Nady trade was just fine. Nady is seriously over-performing this year. he’s not going to sustain this level. next year when he regresses back to his mean we’ll be happy he was sold this year.
by Blyleven Curve Ball on Jul 30, 2008 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Freddy? Why?
He’s not as bad as he’s looked this year (it’s all the injury, IMO, just like Bay in ‘07), and it’s not like we need to clear space for someone else at 2B…
by Vlad on Jul 30, 2008 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it would be nice to have the top of the order guys with at least a .350 OBP. to get that Freddy HAS to bat at least .330—or he needs to watch more pitches and draw some walks. Freddy isn’t going to bat .330 every year. he was a nice story for a couple of years, but he is not an elite player, and he is not going to continually repeat his 06/07 seasons.
by Blyleven Curve Ball on Jul 30, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two things:
1) It’s more like .315 to carry a .350 OBP, based on his career averages. And even after this year’s injury-related struggles, he’s still a career .297 hitter.
2) While it’d be nice to have a .350 OBP in that slot, trading Freddy for nothing isn’t going to get us any closer to the goal. There’s one likely .350+ 2B on the market this offseason, Hudson, and he’s going to want $10-12M a year. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that we probably won’t pay that. After him, your best options (in approximate descending order of quality) are Ellis, Grudzielanek, Durham, Carroll, Loretta, and Iguchi. None are particularly likely to be cheaper and/or better than a healthy Freddy. Alternately, you could go with an in-house option… in which case, you’re going to get a .600-ish OPS from Bixler or Ford.
[Technically, Durham is a decent bet to put up a .350 next year. He’s only definitionally a 2B at this point, however… the spirit is willing, but the range is gone.]
by Vlad on Jul 30, 2008 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
do you really think that Sanchez is going to hit .315 every year? if this team is going to go anywhere they have to let go of guys like Sanchez and Wilson. they’re great. fans love them. however, they will hold this team back. the A’s, Twins, and Marlins have become successful because they look at players like revolving doors. Pitt needs to do the same.
by Blyleven Curve Ball on Jul 30, 2008 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're not listening:
Even if Sanchez only hits .280 (which is unlikely, given his career norms), he’s still better than anyone we have on hand, or are likely able to acquire for the same salary. We don’t have a better option available, and as such, there’s no reason to make a change just for the sake of making a change.
If you can deal him for value, fine. If you want to unload him for nothing in two years, once one of the college infielders we took in the draft this season is ready, also fine. But I refuse to shoot myself in the foot just for the sake of shooting myself in the foot. At all times, you need to ask yourself: How does this move improve us, either now or in the future?
by Vlad on Jul 31, 2008 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Past His Peak?
I think Jason still has another 4-5 good years in him before he starts to tail off. If the Pirates don’t compete in that timeframe, then this is a pointless discussion in the first place. You can get players of Rasmus’s ability by not having your head up your ass when you’re drafting like we did for the entire Dave Littlefield era. We don’t need to be trading the one consistent player on our team for anything less than a king’s ransom.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by fugimaster24 on Jul 30, 2008 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yankees get Pudge Rodriguez for Farnsworth...
Maybe that deal will get Tampa to loosen their prospect purse strings a little?
http://trades.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/07/yankees_trade_for_pudge.html
by ElliottBayBucco on Jul 30, 2008 4:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What,
that the Yankees have the jitters?
It would be sweet to see them swing these deals and still not make the playoffs.
by bucdaddy on Jul 30, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't see the Tigers...
...trading for Professor Farnsworth. They’ve already been there; they should know better.
by Vlad on Jul 30, 2008 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Rays are a smart franchise,
but these last two deal have to make them sweat. They need a corner outfield bat to win the AL East.
by DITO on Jul 30, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont know
They might just be off-setting the injuries they have had.
They really just need to bring Price up.
by Reddrummer9187 on Jul 30, 2008 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they do need a corner bat
but they’ve repeatedly stated that their goal isn’t to make an all-out push this year. bay isn’t a rental so he’s much more valuable to them than say, mark teixeira would have been. i’m glad to see huntington holding out so far, though if he’s going to pick up brignac i hope he does it with enough time left to flip jack to the dodgers.
by johnnycuff on Jul 30, 2008 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hermida
Anyone else see Gammons talk about trading Manny to the Marlins for Hermida and the flipping him to the Pirates for Bay?
by buccoben on Jul 30, 2008 6:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that's interesting
don’t see it happening though
by northsidenotch on Jul 30, 2008 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
via MLBTR (again)
5:56pm: Baseball Prospectus’ John Perrotto has multiple baseball sources saying the Red Sox are on the verge of sending Ramirez to Florida for three players, including outfielder Mike Stanton.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
by UtesFan89 on Jul 30, 2008 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Stanton's an outfielder now?
Seems kind of late in the day for him to make a change like that, doesn’t it?
by Vlad on Jul 30, 2008 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong Mike Stanton. :)
At least I hope so… because this guy is 18 and in the low minors (26 homers in 96 at-bats or something like that).
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
by UtesFan89 on Jul 30, 2008 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just read about Red Sox potentially
trading Manny to Marlins with mention of Bay and Rays talk slowed. DK mentioned that the Rays are in transit to Tampa and doubts anything would be done until they land. Hopefully Tampa talks it over on the flight and decides to act before Boston, Oakland or anyone else.
by ElliottBayBucco on Jul 30, 2008 7:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
3-way trade?
From mlb.com via mlbtraderumors.com
Now there are rumors of a possible 3-way deal with the Red Sox, Marlins, and Pirates that would send Bay to Boston and the strikeout machine that is Jeremy Hermida to the Bucs.
by lost_zero on Jul 30, 2008 7:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Strikeout machine?
That’s a little harsh. If he were health enough to handle a full season, he’d average around 130 a year or so – nothing special for a modern corner OF.
He’s not even close to fair value for Bay, though. We’d need a lot more in the deal.
by Vlad on Jul 30, 2008 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bay/Hermida would be similar to Giles/Bay
If the Pirates got Hermida for Bay, we would be talking as soon as next year about how the guy the Pirates got is already better than the guy we traded away. I would hope another prospect would get thrown into that deal, but it’s actually a pretty solid little return for Bay considering Hermida’s only 24.
by mak_DC on Jul 30, 2008 8:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I like Hermida...
but we need more. That deal would require one more top prospect and another marginal prospect with upside.
by Slick1 on Jul 30, 2008 9:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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