Trade Deadline Thread: Bay to Red Sox?
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 31, 2008 12:43 PM EDT
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PrintManny Ramirez has approved a deal to Miami, Sports Illustrated reports. No trade is final yet, and it remains possible that the Pirates could be left out of the deal even if it does happen. (Thanks to Dejan Kovacevic.)
Ken Rosenthal, meanwhile, says the deal is closer to getting done and quotes a source saying that the Pirates are getting what they want. We'll see. (Thanks to woobie.)
UPDATE 1:00: Kovacevic also reports that Ronny Paulino could be involved in the deal. This is just too good to be true...
UPDATE 1:05: Jayson Stark reports that the Jays are interested in Bay now too. Is every AL East team in on this? The Orioles must be feeling pretty left out. Anyway, Toronto seems like a pretty farfetched destination for Bay, even if they like their fellow Canadians up there, but then again the Jays aren't run in a way that makes a lot of sense.
UPDATE 1:10: Will Carroll says the Bucs will probably keep Bay for now if the negotiations with Florida and Boston fall through.
UPDATE 1:24: Kovacevic now says the Pirates are happy with what they're getting but Florida wants more money. What a surprise.
UPDATE 1:38: Stark says multiple sources say the deal is dead:
[T]he teams involved seem unsure of what happened. The Pirates are blaming the Marlins. The Marlins are blaming the Pirates. And the Red Sox aren't too happy with either of them.
UPDATE 1:45: Lots of websites moving very, very slowly right now. I'm glad Bucs Dugout isn't one of them (yet).
UPDATE 1:51: Thanks to dtoddwin, who caught that the Mets want Ian Snell and would use him as a reliever. If true, that's a pretty hilarious idea--the Mets have little in the way of prospects, and Snell's value to the Pirates as a starter is much greater than his value to the Mets as a reliever.
UPDATE 1:54: Kovacevic now reports that the Marlins are holding up the deal, and that the Rays could still end up trading for Bay.
UPDATE 2:03: Ken Rosenthal says the talks are dead and it's because the Marlins wouldn't give the Bucs enough prospects. There's still some time left, though.
UPDATE 2:13: Stark now writes that the Bucs and Rays are talking again. He thinks the Rays might be willing to build a deal around Reid Brignac and Jeff Niemann. I don't think that would be enough for me; I'm probably less impressed than most with either of those two.
UPDATE 2:17: Rosenthal reports that the Jays are also pursuing Raul Ibanez, perhaps as an alternative to Bay.
UPDATE 2:20: Kovacevic says the price for Bay is too high for Toronto.
UPDATE 2:34: I can't get into the Post-Gazette site right now, but woobie says Kovacevic is reporting the Pirates asked for starter Shaun Marcum and top prospect Travis Snider, and that's what annoyed the Jays so much. Snider is the obvious sticking point there, and he seems to me like the only possible centerpiece the Jays could have offered, from what I know offhand of their farm system.
UPDATE 2:49: woobie points out that SI reports that the the Dodgers are now involved in the Ramirez dealings, but that they've only offered Andre Ethier, which (in my opinion, and also in SI's reporting) simply won't get the deal done. They also say that talks with the Marlins aren't completely dead.
UPDATE 3:00: Over at BP, John Perrotto writes that the Bucs are "extremely disappointed" that the trade hasn't worked out. Kevin Goldstein also says the problem was that the Marlins wanted more than just Ramirez.
UPDATE 3:17: Bill Chastain says that Bay is going to the Rays for Niemann and Brignac. I don't know who Chastain is, so take it with a grain of salt for now.
UPDATE 3:18: ESPN reports merely that Bay-to-Tampa is still a possibility.
UPDATE 3:21: Carroll also says it's Bay for Niemann and Brignac.
UPDATE 3:26: Goldstein reports this as well. In every report I've seen, there aren't any other prospects, just Niemann and Brignac. My first impression is that I don't like this at all.
UPDATE 3:28: It should be emphasized that no one has offered a confirmed report yet. Just 20 minutes ago, Rosenthal wrote that the Pirates were trying to get a different pitcher--not Niemann--and other players.
UPDATE 3:32: Man, the Post-Gazette just seems to be completely kaput.
UPDATE 3:36: Goldstein reports that neither the Rays nor Pirates will confirm anything, and that both teams will stay mum until the deadline passes.
UPDATE 3:42: Jennifer Langosch reports that it's Niemann and Brignac.
UPDATE 3:46: Kovacevic says it's Brignac and Niemann, but that's not all.
UPDATE 3:59: Rosenthal says the Manny talks could be back on.
UPDATE 4:04: Carroll now says, "Deal OFF for Bay? Hearing conflicting things." Well, duh.
UPDATE 4:06: Also says Brignac and Niemann weren't enough, and Bay's staying. Of course, he reported that the trade was on before, so make what you will of that information.
UPDATE 4:22: I've got nothing.
UPDATE 4:23: There are a couple posters on Primer saying that NESN has reported that the Ramirez trade did, in fact, happen. No word on whether the Pirates were involved. Obviously, this is just a couple of message board posters, so...
UPDATE 4:28: Langosch now says Bay was possibly traded to the Dodgers. Again, she mangled the Tampa non-trade earlier. It may be a while before we find out what really happened.
UPDATE 4:33: Heyman has Ramirez going to the Dodgers.
UPDATE 4:35: Kovacevic confirms that Tampa's out. This is about the only report published in the last hour that I'd actually believe.
UPDATE 4:39: Heyman has Bay going to the Red Sox, with the Bucs getting four prospects. It's a three-team deal. Apparently.
UPDATE 4:42: Rosenthal has the Bucs getting Andy LaRoche and Bryan Morris from LA and Craig Hansen and Brandon Moss from Boston.
UDPATE 4:50: If this is the trade, I'm cautiously pretty psyched about this. LaRoche is a very good prospect who's been in a very bad situation for him; I think he'll hit. Morris has already had Tommy John surgery, but he's 21, is a former first round pick, and has both good stats and a good fastball. Hansen and Moss are lower-upside guys, but they should both be helpful also. I need to do more research, but so far, I like this.
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Closing in on a deal?
Per Ken Rosenthal:
The Manny Ramirez trade appears to be moving closer to completion.
“It sounds like things are taking off and Pittsburgh is getting what they are looking for,” said an executive who has been in contact with the clubs involved.
Another source familiar with the discussions, however, continued to express caution, indicating that the talks remain in a tenuous state.
The Pirates’ return for Bay, sources say, is the last holdup in the deal. The Pirates are seeking an “appropriate return for an All-Star caliber left fielder” — and one who is affordable at $5.75 million this season and $7.5 million in 2009.
http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/8397286/Latest-news-and-rumors-from-around-MLB
We deserve to get
what we are looking for. Lay the foundations for a revival of the organization with another big deal-a bigger one than with the Yankees-and then hopefully wrap up a deep draft in the next two weeks with all the top draftees puttting pen to paper, and some of the later-round gambles, too.
Pirates aren't the holdup
Per Dejan’s blog:
The Pirates like the prospects, I am told, and no longer are the holdup. Separately, ESPN’s Peter Gammons is saying Florida - surprise - wants more money, as much as $9 million to cover Ramirez’s remaining salary and then some. Focus is off the Pirates.
The Pirates
just saved a couple mil in the Nady trade. Any reason we can’t kick some of it over to the Fish to get the deal done?
Yeah, why not kick in a million? We should be saving something like $20 million between the Nady/Marte deal and this one.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 31, 2008 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus
won’t we save quite a bit on Bay for the rest of this year and next?
Loria and Sampson are
bigger money grubbing dicks than McClatchy and the Nuttings. That organization does not deserve fans or championships…..
Steve Z
Maybe the Yanks would kick in some dollars
so they don’t have to face Manny for the rest of the season :P
.500 or bust...
Yeah, I can’t get on Dejan’s blog, either.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 31, 2008 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Any Truth To The Rumor That ...
Littlefield is trying to broker a deal betweeen the Pirates and the Giants?. I hear that it’s Bay and cash to the Giants for Barry Zito.
Dejan Is Useful ...
but there is also good info on ESPN News.
Hey, I’ve cited ESPN twice up there so far.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 31, 2008 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep ESPN has twenty guys....
Dejan is just one. We now it is clear enough that Bay is gone. I put it at 90%. Grabow 100%.........Snell 3%, Wilson 20%. Not that you guys care, just my two cents.
I guess. But all those guys are working on 30 teams.
I think there’s a good chance nothing gets done. I’d put it at Bay 50%. We’ll see.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 31, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Good point-
but it also depends on who you are talking to.
Suspense
Anyone remember the last time there was this much suspense/activity (or potential activity) on deadline day for the Bucs? I’ve been a fan for 30 years and can’t remember one so interesting. That must mean something, right?
You are right,
but there were also no intarwebs back in them thar days, either.
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- HST
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 31, 2008 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, and even four years ago, there wasn’t nearly as much information on the web. It was nearly impossible to find blow-by-blow type coverage like we have now.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 31, 2008 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
These are
the good ol’ days, eh?
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- HST
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 31, 2008 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Bucs Dugout
Kudos to your folks for keeping up with the traffic, Charlie. I’ve had several other sites time out – yours is right there and has all the info. Good job!
While you're at it
tell them this is one of the niftiest commenting systems I’ve seen on a blog/forum/etc. The fact that it updates in real-time and highlights new posts, has keyboard shortcuts, etc, is pretty slick!
.500 or bust...
So what round are we in?
10? 11? Will it go to a controversial decision, no contest, or will we score a KO?
A pool?
Who goes where in the next two hours? (Aside from us – pretty clear we’re not going anywhere.)
Bummer
Bucs have apparently turned elsewhere in Bay talks. From Dejan’s blog:
The Pirates apparently have turned their attention away from the Boston-Florida scenario and are looking elsewhere for Jason Bay suitors. One, according to ESPN, is Toronto, though I have not confirmed that. The other is Tampa Bay, which remains in play.
With only two hours left to deadline, bear in mind that deals involving prospects almost have to happen with teams that have been studied intensely. Sure, there are books on everyone, but this is Bay, a prime piece, and they are not going to send him away based on anything other than first-hand observation of prospects coming back.
Offers continue to come for John Grabow, but other left-handed relievers appear to be ahead of him in line.
Still nothing at all on Jack Wilson.
More from Dejan ...
The Blue Jays think Neal is nuts:
Forget Toronto. Just got a call from the Blue Jays. Pirates asked for something so excessive, in Toronto’s minds, that the Jays’ inquiry consisted of exactly one phone call.
J.P.
If you’re a top seed in the worst GM poll, I don’t think that your idea of what is excessive counts for much.
Good
If we don’t deal Bay, I’m fine with that. I’d rather keep him than dump him for garbage. There’s always the offseason and next year’s deadline. Might as well keep him around if we’re getting little in return anyway.
The suspense is killing me!
As the deadline approaches the websites with decent info are becoming more and more jammed. Thankfully this site has been OK. Probably about to besieged by the Red Sox Nation though, as they find their own sites blocked by traffic.
If NH deals and gets two blue chippers and two throw-ins do we lose a hundred next season?
by RDV across the sea on Jul 31, 2008 2:14 PM EDT reply actions
Probably not
It’s really hard to lose 100 games. The Pirates would be bad in the way that they have mediocre players occupying most positions with little future upside, but not bad in the way of actually having terrible players on the field.
No
our pitching figures to be better than this year and the reduced offensive output will probably leave us right where we are today.
by WestCoastBuc on Jul 31, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Hello...
Love the blog. I just joined after reading this thing pretty much every day for the past year(I’m a late adopter). It’s always good to read passionate posting Bucs fans who are realistic and knowledgeable(By in Large)! Anyway, the deadline frenzy finally forced me to post. Does anyone else see this deadline as encouraging even if all of the deals fall through? It just strikes me as reassuring that we may finally have a GM with a spine, a plan, and the know-how operating the ship! Even if things fall through, I feel much more confident after today that Niel can potentially right the ship and not cave-in to pressure like Littlefield. Now, I take that back if we get Julio Lugo, Roco Baldelli, or Kevin Mench back with whomever we may make a deal with!!
by GlennWilson'sArm on Jul 31, 2008 2:20 PM EDT reply actions
Amen
I like being in a position of strength off the field if not on it. It might help long term, too, if the Pirates aren’t seen as the Yankees and Cubs farm systems any more.
I agree
on the long term aspect for sure. I always felt like other GM’s would call up some buddies, get a couple cases of beer and get Littlefield on speaker phone for some laughs at the deadline! At least now other GM’s will know going in that they will have to make fair and respectable offers, which in a way gives us leverage in future negotiations!
by GlennWilson'sArm on Jul 31, 2008 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Stark
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=3513024&type=blogEntry
Those on-again, off-again Jason Bay-to-Tampa Bay talks are back on, according to a source familiar with the discussions. The two sides have been so far apart that it appeared they’d given up on each other as of early Thursday afternoon. But the source said they’ve closed that gap somewhat and are still talking.Tampa Bay has hinted its willingness to structure a package around pitcher Jeff Niemann and shortstop prospect Reid Brignac, but the Pirates have been seeking one of their elite pitching prospects—Wade Davis, David Price or Jeremy Hellickson.
Obviously Price and Davis aren’t happening, and I highly doubt Hellickson would happen.
What do the Rays have that they can offer in addition to Brignac and Niemann?
That I'd be willing to take as the second player in a Brignac deal?
Desmond Jennings, if the medical reports on his shoulder are good. That’s about it.
Crunch time...
... it’s nice to feel a part of major league baseball for once.
Stay strong Neal! You don’t need to trade Bay. Be reasonable but understand that there is much more pressure on Florida & Boston. Toronto isn’t gonna happen – probably just trying to put more pressure on Boston.
The deal isn’t dead until 4:00 – those saying it is are probably just trying to create leverage. However, it takes us kicking in $2m when we’ve shaved $10m off our payroll – do it. Ownership always said we had financial flexibility this year.
Also, I’m wondering if Oakland might not resurface at this late hour, though that scares me as much as it interests me.
Good day.
i know
people are actually talking about us…it’s awesome
by northsidenotch on Jul 31, 2008 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Bay.....
I’m telling you Bay’s value will never be higher than today. NH knows it. He’s gone. He isn’t a rental now. He’s really cheap next year. 100% gone in my opinion.
agreed
no way is he a bucco in 95 minutes
by northsidenotch on Jul 31, 2008 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
True
But it still doesn’t mean we should give Bay away. Neal might need to take his toys and go home once to prove he’s not going to be abused like DL.
Sean McAdam on Boston radio . . .
. . . saying that FLA killed the deal by asking for more cash from Boston in addition to picking up Manny’s salary.
Dejan . . .
Am told the Pirates asked Toronto for outfielder Travis Snider, the Jays’ No. 1 prospect, and pitcher Shaun Marcum, a starter who did not rank among Baseball America’s top 10 for that organization. Toronto was very displeased with the way the talks - or talk - went.
One wonders what the Jays thought the Pirates would ask for.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 31, 2008 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Some of their strong Canadian dollars?
Fifty gallons of syrup and a French-English dictionary? Who knows?
This is the team that absolutely, positively would not part with Marco Scutaro a couple days ago, so it seems it really could be anything. :)
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 31, 2008 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
That's it!
They wouldn’t trade Scutaro because they needed to have him on hand, so he could be traded to us!
Dustin McGowan
J.P. probably figured Neal hadn’t looked at the DL lately.
Connection keeps
timing out.
HEAD ON! APPLY DIRECTLY TO HEAD! HEAD ON! APPLY DIRECTLY TO HEAD! HEAD ON!
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- HST
I just got through...
nothing new since the 2:24 update…
UPDATE 2:05 p.m.: Bay has heard nothing.UPDATE 2:09 p.m.: Forget Toronto. Just got a call from the Blue Jays. Pirates asked for something so excessive, in Toronto’s minds, that the Jays’ inquiry consisted of exactly one phone call.
UPDATE 2:15 p.m.: Am told the Pirates asked Toronto for outfielder Travis Snider, the Jays’ No. 1 prospect, and pitcher Shaun Marcum, a starter who did not rank among Baseball America’s top 10 for that organization. Toronto was very displeased with the way the talks - or talk - went.
UPDATE 2:24 p.m.: Right back to Pirates and Tampa Bay. Source says same two names as before, shortstop Reid Brignac and pitcher Jeff Niemann, though the Pirates would not mind upgrading to Wade Davis as the pitcher because he profiles as more of a surefire starter.
.500 or bust...
Florida...
May come to their senses closer to the deadline and get back in this thing….I would have to think it might be a PR mess for them…well, that is if they actually had any Public to relate with!
by GlennWilson'sArm on Jul 31, 2008 2:38 PM EDT reply actions
Deal not totally dead, but Red Sox now talking to Dodgers about Manny
The potential blockbuster trade that would have sent embattled Boston slugger Manny Ramirez to the Marlins has hit a snag, but the Red Sox are now talking to the Los Angeles Dodgers, as well, SI.com has learned.
The Dodgers have offered young outfielder Andre Ethier, but Boston is believed to prefer Matt Kemp.
The Marlins deal isn’t believed to be dead, but it appears Florida was unhappy with one or more aspects of the potential blockbuster.
While the Marlins scenario isn’t yet dead, it appears to be ailing, at the very least. Word is, Marlins people aren’t happy with their end of things. While they were to get Ramirez, they didn’t want to surrender outfield prospect Mike Stanton or pitching propsect Ryan Tucker.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/07/31/manny.sweepstakes/index.html?eref=T1
So, let me get this straight:
They were happy about getting an All-Star for free, but not about the part where they have to give something up to get him?
Strong grasp of basic economics, those Marlins.
Vlad.....
you know better….....two months of Manny and losing Hermida and two prospects? Sounds like a fair bit to give up.
Hermida has a 102 OPS+ this year, and he can't stay healthy.
I know he was a top prospect back in the day, and it’d be nice to get him at a discount, but I think his value has been overblown somewhat in these negotiations.
Also, note the syntax on Woobie’s quote: They didn’t want to surrender Stanton OR Tucker. Not “and”. “Or”. Apparently, they didn’t want to offer any significant return at all.
'Or' includes 'and'
In other words, the Marlins do not want to trade Stanton plus additional players or Tucker plus additional players or Stanton and Tucker plus any other player or players.
It seems the Marlins want Manny, Cash, draft picks and only want to trade Hermida and irrelevant players for this return. It’s unclear why the Pirates or Sox would participate in this deal. The Sox would need to sweeten things for the Pirates because Hermida is scarcely an adequate return for Bay.
Steve Z
Figures -
PG finally refreshes, and nothing past the 2:24 update.
Gah.
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- HST
I'm going to be irate
If the issue is a couple million bucks and the deal doesn’t get done. The FL-BOS-PIT deal makes too much sense not too get done- but then this is major league baseball.
As for Manny to LAD, that simply isn’t as good a return as Bay. Ethier would be a joke. Kemp isn’t as good as Bay. It is that simple.
Things should be getting good right about now because Tampa needs to make a deal and has no other options unless Colorado is actually talking about Holliday and managing to keep it quiet – which would be hard to fathom. Boston is motivated, but not desperate. Florida has a greater need. Tampa should be desperate. Something has to happen. If it doesn’t, the Bucs need to make an exception to the general rule and talk about why it didn’t.
Oakland getting involved for Bay and the possibility of Holliday being available are the two biggest wild cards. Otherwise, it is all about the stupidity of the Marlins.
Good day.
You could be right but I've never been entirely convinced that
the deal made a whole lot of sense for FL. They are barely over .500 and even if they do add Manny they’ll be a big underdog even if they do make the playoffs. Of course they were that too the last time they were in and it worked out OK for them,. But at least one elite prospect plus Hermida plus something else for Manny and a couple of comp picks; I wouldn’t do that deal if I were them.
by WestCoastBuc on Jul 31, 2008 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
BP chat session
Perrotto says Snell’s not being traded, and so does Goldstein. As if we couldn’t have known that already.
Yea......
Trading Snell would go against any reasonable plan. But, we are overloaded with pitching depth…...
//sarcasm
Well Wait
We’re overloaded with CRAPPY pitching depth, so you aren’t entirely off.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Jul 31, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
AZ
I’m a little surprised the Snakes aren’t pursuing Bay aggressively. Maybe they’ve given up most of their prospects, but he could put them over the top.
Silence
Now 30 minutes without any news. That makes me think something actually IS happening, since no one has time to talk about it.
Got thru to PG
3:07 p.m.: One source describes a feeling that a Bay-Rays trade can come off without Tampa giving up its four untouchable prospects - Price, Brignac, Hellickson, Davis - in the deal. That would mean quantity, and lots of it.
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- HST
Forgive me for not putting that into a "block," but i don't know the tags to do that - apparently it's not
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- HST
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 31, 2008 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
[qoute]
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- HST
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 31, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Just hit
the button with the quotation marks on them. Or if you use tags, it’s < blockquote >< /blockquote > (without the spaces in there of course)
thanks!
;-)
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- HST
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 31, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Bay for 500 C+ prospects
I don’t know if I love or hate the idea… on the one hand, you want a top-tier guy for Bay. On the other hand, if you get enough middling guys, you’re virtually assured of one of them turning out great. Bay was a middling guy two years before coming to the Bucs.
I don't want . . .
Quantity. We need possible impact guys. I understand Price isn’t coming here. But Niemann and Brignac would be the starting point for me.
About to post this
If that’s the case, it really comes down to who the other prospects are.
Another deal?
If the Pirates get Brignac, doesn’t that mean they want to trade Wilson today, too?
It would seem to make sense...
,,,,that if we have Brignac and Bixler is on the big club now too that Wilson should be dealt. maybe we can still get LaRoche, Ethier or Kemp somehow from LA.
Kemp
I’d take Kemp for Wilson – he could replace Bay right now.
Dejan updates
- One hour to go. If anyone other than Tampa is in the mix for Bay, it would be a stunning surprise. Have not heard of another team all day. ... Oh, and just got a call from a baseball operations guy from another team, and he reiterated the common view today that the Pirates have their price - not just for Bay - and are not varying from it. Makes one wonder if the Pirates really wanted to move Bay, or they just wanted to see if they could land something really good.
- One source describes a feeling that a Bay-Rays trade can come off without Tampa giving up its four untouchable prospects - Price, Brignac, Hellickson, Davis - in the deal. That would mean quantity, and lots of it.
http://community.post-gazette.com/blogs/pbc/
For what its worth, Jayson Stark - he was just on ESPN News - thinks Bay to the Rays is a good possibility.
Bay....
Has to go. Seriously. Of course I don’t want to give him away, but it’s time. He could decline fast in my opinion. Two top prospects and pull the trigger.
Hmm...
Its the “two top prospects” thing that will tear it apart. The Rays are acting like dicks.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Jul 31, 2008 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
If We Do Get their SS
I’ll hate the trade unless we deal Jack as well. The moment this kid walks in, Wilson’s value to us plummets. You’ve gotta deal him at that point.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
I disagree
It only sucks if we get stuck with Jack. If you can get another pitcher for Jack, I like it.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Jul 31, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
We don't know . . .
who the other prospects are yet.
The link above
Said “prospects including Niemann and Brignac.”
I Don't Care
We settled for less than their best, and I don’t like that one bit. If they couldn’t get two top prospects will all the leverage they had, this is a failure.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Jul 31, 2008 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Off topic, but hahahaha
Posted by Buster Olney
With the trade deadline closing in on teams, the options for adding pitching will diminish. But one of those options could be veteran pitcher Freddy Garcia, who is a free agent.Garcia’s agent, Peter Greenberg, said this afternoon that Garcia will likely throw for scouts on Aug. 18-19, with the hope of signing a deal and helping a team down the stretch. Days are quickly coming off the calendar, but Greenberg said Garcia is working out and working on his arm strength, and “he’s excited about where he’s at.”
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- HST
Okay...
If it is just Niemann & Brignac for Bay and there are no other deal, I’m very disheartened.
If there are more prospects to the deal, we need to hold off on evaluating.
Fair enough?
Naw
They couldn’t get one of their top 3 pitching prospects for Bay? Are you kidding? They said they’d have to be blown away, and unless these unnamed guys are B+ guys, or a bunch of B-C guys, I’m underwhelmed.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Jul 31, 2008 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's face it
Price was going nowhere. Davis was almost certainly going nowhere. Hellickson is possible, and maybe the the bucs are holding out for him.
Rosenthal
Shortstop Reid Brignac and right-hander Jeff Niemann are among the players the Rays have offered, sources say, but the Pirates are looking to replace Niemann with another pitcher while adding other prospects.
Let’s wait and see.
As Well They Should
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Jul 31, 2008 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Not good
Without getting at least Hellickson, Jaso, and maybe a guy like Rollins this is awful. Brignac has never broken out like people thought and he is going to never be up to par to be a good MLB level starter.
30 mins to go
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
Dejan
Can’t yet confirm the deal. Brignac’s agent knows nothing about this so far.
Ugh. I still don’t like this.
Good day.
Would it Have Been Unreasonable...
For the Bucs to cough up a couple million to help pay Manny?
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
It would have been unreasonable...
for them not to if a couple million were the only issue and were otherwise satisfied with the deal.
Good day.
Damn it...
seems like I missed all the fun & disappointment.
This is disappointing though…
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Manny.......I'm sure
the Manny deal was close but not imminent. I agree with the post above that the Fish were being asked to give up a lot. Maybe they just got cold feet and it was going to happen
From Dejan:
3:32 p.m.: Hearing those are not only two prospects that would come in deal, but they are the main names.
Is he
“MLB ready”?
I mean, could he come up and start tomorrow and be fine, or is he a target to start up here next season?
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
he's mlb ready
as far as the pirates are concerned. it’s not like we’re going to lose any playoff chances by throwing him out there instead of jack wilson
by northsidenotch on Jul 31, 2008 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Posturing?
If it really is Brignac and Niemann, I hope this is NH’s attempt at pressuring Boston to put the three-way deal back on the table. It sounds like the Marlins are the one who nixed it, of course, but maybe NH thinks Boston will give something up to Florida to prevent Bay from going to rival Tampa. Fingers crossed. I’d love to see Hermida plus 1-2 top prospects in our system.
Hope not
A lot of rumors last night and today did not materialize, we really need to get Price or Davis IMO for the trade to be worth it
MLB.com
Jenifer Langosch from the MLB blog…
However, it could be a little more complicated that that. According to another industry source in Pittsburgh, the Rays still are not believed to be offering both Brignac and Niemann. One, it is not known who, is deemed unavailbale, along with Wade Davis, David Price and Jeremy Hellickson.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
That is....
Scary Bad News….walk away Niel, walk away!
by GlennWilson'sArm on Jul 31, 2008 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Jonathan Mayo
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Although
If we got about the same return from this trade as we did for Nady AND Marte, wouldn’t that be about market value as determined by our front office in the previous trade? If Nady was worth two prospects, and Marte was worth 2 prospects, and Bay ends up being worth 4 including the best prospect of both trades, isn’t that about what you’d expect.
What I’m saying is, I wonder how much the Nady trade is affecting these negotiations. Do the Rays not want to pay more than the Yanks did for one guy instead of two?
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
No, since Bay is good and Nady is pretty marginal.
I don’t know why people have so much trouble with this. You get more for an elite talent than a guy having a fluke year. Full stop.
I don't know why people keep talking about Price
He’s not getting traded.
If Will Carroll says the deal is a go...
...bank on it not happening.
With Ohman & Fuentes off the market
does interest in Grabow maybe go up a bit?
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Gammons
Just said Tampa might be dealing with us through LA, which might mean Jack is involved.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
That
could be good.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
i thought
he said boston is trying to deal through LA
by northsidenotch on Jul 31, 2008 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Through?
Why would they not just deal with them directly?
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Jul 31, 2008 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I Know
But it seems highly unlikely a 3 way BOS-PIT-LA trade springs out of nowhere in 8 mins.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Jul 31, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not going to complain
about getting one of the dumbest GM’s in baseball involved in a big deal with us.
Not so fast....
As the deadline quickly approaches, rumors were abuzz that Jason Bay was headed to Tampa in return for shortstop Reid Brignac and pitcher Jeff Niemann. But not so fast.
A source has told me there is no done deal… yet. One of the above names has not been made available. I’ve got no confirmation on this, but my guess is that Brignac is the one the Rays won’t part with.
More as this develops…
(from mlbtraderumors.com)
If they aren’t even going to give up Brignac, NH needs to nix this thing now, because Bay for Niemann is not a good deal
Dodgers
Might make it more palatable. Kemp and McDonald?
hmmmm
Here in Boston, the three-way with Florida seems all but dead. Not breaking news i know…but just saying. Although Gammons says the Sox are still trying to get Bay. I’m watching Espnews and they have announced nothing about the Bay deal. Everyone says its done with Brignac and Niemann. I hope not. Brignac should be a good offensive shortstop in the future, but if Niemann is in the deal, NH got hosed. I think of Brignac as a Jhonny Peralta type, and everyone seems to think Niemann figures more as a long reliever instead of top of the rotation. If this does happen with Tampa, we gotta hope its Brignac and Hellickson/Davis.
Fun Fact: Niemann has a butch lesbian sister who was a three-point specialist on Baylor’s national championship womens team a coupe years back. She left the team to love with her partner. Nice.
by beantownbucsfan on Jul 31, 2008 3:50 PM EDT reply actions
brignac out?
bay for brignac one for one would be awful
by beantownbucsfan on Jul 31, 2008 3:51 PM EDT reply actions
brignac out?
bay for brignac one for one would be awful
by beantownbucsfan on Jul 31, 2008 3:51 PM EDT reply actions
boston and bay
if the sox want bay so bad why not trade jed lowrie and michael bowden for him. bowden is a much better pitching prospect than niemann, and lowrie is as good as brignac.
by beantownbucsfan on Jul 31, 2008 3:53 PM EDT reply actions
Bay Can Play Center
And if Manny blows up, he can play left.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Jul 31, 2008 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I imagine . . .
They’d only do it it they were assured of trading Manny.
I have a bad feeling when all the dust clears....
....there will be no soup for anyone. :-( I don’t mind keeping bay, but would have loved to get some top prospects.
The Closer We get with nothing
The more confident I get. I hope we keep Bay and see what we can get in the offseason. If we still don’t like it, we should talk extension with him.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
No soup...
is better than feces soup. Remember that.
Good day.
Gammons
Is breaking news now…hold on.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
No
He said Tampa is convinced Bay is going to Boston
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Jul 31, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
true
he said that after i thought he was gonna say something
by northsidenotch on Jul 31, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd Rather...
Keep Bay over that Tampa garbage offer….
by GlennWilson'sArm on Jul 31, 2008 3:55 PM EDT reply actions
Peter Gammons said people in Tampa
Think Bay is going to Boston somehow.
bay
holding on to bay isn’t a bad thing. this will be interesting.
by beantownbucsfan on Jul 31, 2008 3:56 PM EDT reply actions
Kurkjian
just called us the loser of the deadline.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
2 Minutes.....
If we get Julio Lugo somehow I’ll be convinced Littlefield is somehow behind the scenes!
by GlennWilson'sArm on Jul 31, 2008 3:58 PM EDT reply actions
How in the blue hell...
can anyone predict winners and losers of the deadline before the deadline?
Good day.
Paulino
How much you wanna bet the reason the 3-way fell through was because the Pirates wouldn’t give up Ronny? Anybody? Anybody?
I think
They’d have taken a young vendor prospect to put in the upper deck.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Jul 31, 2008 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
And...
Now ESPN talks about Favre
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
That
bastard.
Go back to your own sport.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
It's baseball trade deadline time...
not “should I retire or not” time.
Stupid Favre.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Favre needs to shut up.
It is becoming so annoying.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
This isn't looking good.
And what am I supposed to do the rest of the day? We can’t even talk about new Pirates…
Horrible, horrible day.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
kurkjian
may be a little dweeb, but i guess he’s kinda right. do we really think the pirates improved their future that much with tabata, mccutchen,karstens and ohlendorf?
by beantownbucsfan on Jul 31, 2008 4:03 PM EDT reply actions
I Do
I liked the revised deal. Of the three pitchers, one has to stick right?
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Jul 31, 2008 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Would you rather they...
give Bay away and not get any value. He’s still signed thru next year, so it’s not like he walks at the end of the year.
Also remember…the trades can be announced after 4pm.
if tabata turns out
to be even close to what his ceiling is, it would work out…and i agree, one of those pitchers has to be something
by northsidenotch on Jul 31, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I Think
The page may be overloaded cuz I can’t either.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Jul 31, 2008 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Just got on
Most recent update was at 3:32. Still had Bay going to Tampa.
Rosenthal
says that Bay to the Sox is back on… and maybe the 3-way as well.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
From Rosenthal (via MLB Rumors)
Rosenthal has a source saying Bay to the Rays is off “unless a miracle happens.” He has Bay headed to Boston once again.
I got the PG
There was nothing since the last one.
That Report
Is nearly 20 mins old.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
The Rosenthal one
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Jul 31, 2008 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
ditto
on pbc blog
trades still come through after deadline, not hearing any names coming the bucs way
by beantownbucsfan on Jul 31, 2008 4:07 PM EDT reply actions
It sometimes takes a while...
...for word of a last-minute deal to leak out. IIRC, Nomar to the Cubs didn’t break as a news item until 5-ish.
Maybe...
We can PACKAGE Wilson and Bay in the off-season! I still would rather keep Bay than cave-in to a less than desirable offer! At least we’ll look like we have a backbone in future negotiations! There still may be a deal though, they often come out well after the deadline…
by GlennWilson'sArm on Jul 31, 2008 4:08 PM EDT reply actions
Jenifer Langosch...
With the 4 p.m. ET Trade Deadline past, a baseball source in Tampa Bay confirmed that no deal was struck between the Rays and Pirates to send Jason Bay to Tampa Bay in exchange for prospects.While there remains the possibility that another team could have snuck in an offer before 4 p.m., it appears right now that Bay is staying in Pittsburgh. No other substantial offers were known to be on the table.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Rosenthal On Nady Trade
I tend to agree. This is from the same blog the “Manny Back On” rumor came from.
While the trade has been widely panned, Pirates officials naturally had their reasons for accepting outfield prospect Jose Tabata plus minor-league right-handers Ross Ohlendorf, Dan McCutchen and Jeff Karstens from the Yankees for outfielder Xavier Nady and reliever Damaso Marte.The Pirates view Tabata as a classic buy-low talent who could be liberated by his trade from the Yankees. At age 19, he faced intense pressure as one of the Yankees’ top prospects and also had to deal with wrist problems last season.
Reds second baseman Brandon Phillips and Marlins shortstop Hanley Ramirez also were traded in part because of their questionable makeups, only to become All-Stars. The Pirates believe they need to occasionally gamble on such players.
As for the pitchers in the deal, the Pirates believe that Ohlendorf and McCutchen stand a chance of becoming mid-rotation starters. If even one of them fulfills that projection, the deal could go down as a success. Nady’s performance this season far exceeded his previous career levels, and Marte was due to become a free agent.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
MLB.COM Says.....
With the 4 p.m. ET Trade Deadline past, a baseball source in Tampa Bay confirmed that no deal was struck between the Rays and Pirates to send Jason Bay to Tampa Bay in exchange for prospects.While there remains the possibility that another team could have snuck in an offer before 4 p.m., it appears right now that Bay is staying in Pittsburgh. No other substantial offers were known to be on the table.
by GlennWilson'sArm on Jul 31, 2008 4:11 PM EDT reply actions
Dejan update
On the regular PG breaking news, he reports that we were talking with Tampa up until the last second. Results not yet known.
MLB.com has retracted the Bay for Niemann & Brignac report.
Good day.
If Nothing Happens
This was a win. The Rays were low balling us, and Neil likely was not the one that stopped the Manny deal.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
A win
in the sense that we didn’t make a stupid deal, yes.
But it’s still kinda deflating with all the talk the past 24 hours.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Not stupid
would be a very nice improvement. Further, it sounds as if the absence of a deal was beyond our control since we obviously would not have caved.
Good day.
if no deal happens
then kudos to NH for sticking firm on what he wanted for bay. as someone suggested bay (who could use the next two months to add to his numbers) will be a hot commodity i’m sure at the winter meetings. Although if no replacement shortstop is acquired then i’d hold onto jack cuz heaven knows i don’t wanna see bixler out there for 140 games haha. but yeah good for NH if the rays wouldn’t budge on their package, NH would have made a bad mistake to take the package they were offering.
by beantownbucsfan on Jul 31, 2008 4:20 PM EDT reply actions
I'm with you
He had to stop the insanity at some point. We didn’t HAVE to deal Bay, and we didn’t take junk for him. Good move by Neal that will pay off in the future.
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts....
Big if here, but IF the bucs get some good performances from the new starting pitchers this year, we will be in a good position to offer Bay in the offseason. We won’t be pressed financially, or in need of a ton of more starting pitchers
I agree...
It looks like we may have found ourselves a GM at least!
by GlennWilson'sArm on Jul 31, 2008 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Jenifer Langosch
After all the talks about Bay heading to Tampa Bay or Boston, it appears that the Dodgers may have landed the Pirates left fielder just prior to the 4 p.m. ET deadline.MLB.com has confirmed that they were a late player in the race for Bay and that it was L.A. One industry source in Pittsburgh believes that a deal between the two clubs has been made.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Shit
Unless “Kemp, Matt, or Kershaw, Clayton” is in this, I’ll blow a gasket.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Jul 31, 2008 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
langlosch
has been wrong all day. women reporters. jk…
by beantownbucsfan on Jul 31, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
she was on the mark when she said the Rays weren’t going to give up both Brignac & Niemann.
And when she said that Bay wasn’t going to be a Ray.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
yeah but
she reported the deal really early
and what were the d-rays thinking???
you’d figure they’d have to give up one three pitchers (price,hellickson,davis) seeing how they already have kazmir, garza, and shields.
by beantownbucsfan on Jul 31, 2008 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Not seeing anyone else say this though.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
WOW....
That would be huge for the Dodgers if they got both….We’d better see a HUGE return on that one!
by GlennWilson'sArm on Jul 31, 2008 4:27 PM EDT reply actions
Agreed
Kemp AND Kershaw, or Its a failure.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Jul 31, 2008 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Via MLBTR
Jon Heyman reporting it’s Manny to the Dodgers.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Any word on 3 ways?
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Jul 31, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Jenifer what's her name
brought it up…
just speculation though, she admits.
Also, keep in mind that after talks fizzled regarding a three-way deal with Boston/Florida/Pittsburgh, the Dodgers jumped into the ring as a possible suitor for Manny Ramirez. If so, there could be a scenario in which the Red Sox still landed Bay while the Dodgers got Ramirez. This remains pure speculation, but the addition of the Dodgers in the mix certainly has made it a possibility.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Now some guy "Ian"
Just when it seemed the Red Sox weren’t going to be able to find a deal for star slugger Manny Ramirez, they have reportedly dealt the right-handed hitting run producer to the Los Angeles Dodgers. SI.com reported the news. The Boston Globe also reported that the Red Sox had traded Ramirez, but didn’t say where. Rumblings are that Jason Bay is in fact going from Pittsburgh to Boston to make it a three-way deal.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
they're good
if you girlfriend and her hot friend are into it there’s nothing better. That’s what you were reffering to right? haha
by beantownbucsfan on Jul 31, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
If Manny is going to LA
Bay certainly isn’t
Wanna bet?
With the management out there, who the heck knows? They might try to get Jr. from the White Sox, too.
They're the Dodgers though...
not the Astros.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
via rotoworld
NESN believes the Red Sox are getting Jason Bay in a three-team deal.
That could be...
....earlier reports said the Dodgers would only trade Ethier in a Manny deal and not Kemp. However if Boston would wind up with Bay and Pittsburgh with Ethier and prospects it would be similar to the Bos-Fla-Pit deal. ZKemp could wind up being involved if we also deal Wilson to LA and Grabow to Boston filling other needs on those teams. Just my thoughts.
Dejan reports...
there was no deal with Tampa.
Good day.
BOS/LA
If a three-way deal was struck, odds are strong that Wilson was included—both Boston and LA could use him. I think getting Kershaw is a pipe dream, but you never know with Colletti.
From Heyman ... wow
The Red Sox traded Manny Ramirez to the Dodgers late Thursday afternoon, SI.com has learned.
Jason Bay is headed to Boston as part of the deal, SI.com has learned.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/07/31/manny.sweepstakes/index.html?eref=T1
this is good news
there’s no other GM active at the deadline i’d rather have us dealing with for prospects
WoW.....Crazy!
If true, I hope NH stuck to his guns…he always said he wanted 4 players for Bay 2 upper and 2 middle so hopefully they match up talent-wise!!!
by GlennWilson'sArm on Jul 31, 2008 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
zero chance
There’s no way on earth we would get Kershaw…unless NH is a miracle worker. Expecting him to be the return, however, is setting yourself up for massive disappointment.
Rosenthal
Another possibility is a three-way deal in which Ramirez would go to the Dodgers and Bay to the Red Sox with the Pirates receiving outfielder Andre Ethier and prospects.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Rosenthal says...
it was a 3-team deal. No word on third team.
Good day.
Heyman
The Pirates will get four minor leaguers in the three-way trade.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Wilson
That makes me think Wilson is not involved, or the prospects better be Jesus, Peter, and the Archangel Gabriel
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Jul 31, 2008 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Trade with LA
What would people want to make this an acceptable deal for Bay? For Bay and Wilson?
Heyman says..
we are the third team and will get 3 prospects.
Please, not Ethier.
fingers crossed.
Good day.
Unrelated, but for laughs...
Khalil Greene’s return to the Padres this season is doubtful after he fractured his hand punching a storage chest on Wednesday night.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Rosenthal
The Pirates will receive Andy LaRoche and right-hander Bryan Morris from the Dodgers and outfielder Damien Moss and releiver Craig Hansen from the Red Sox.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Brandon Moss, not Damien.
Rosenthal might’ve made a typo there…
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Pretty strong commentary on the future of Neil Walker
If we’re adding LaRoche. I definitely like LaRoche better than Walker, but obviously management is really down on NW.
You can move one later.
I hope.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Different position,
not different team.
Just to clarify.
Though I guess you could trade one too…
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Dejan reports it as fact..
Here’s what he said:
Boston sent outfielder Manny Ramirez to the Los Angeles Dodgers as part of the deal. The Pirates will receive Brandon Moss, Craig Hansen, Andy LaRoche and Avery Morris.
Good day.
I Can't Believe
Both BOS and LA can use a shortstop. Why is he not involved?
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
He
being Jack
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Jul 31, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
hansen and moss
hansen has great stuff, but he’s SUCKED in boston. i’d be interested to see moss get a shot as a everyday player, he could be a very pleasant surprise. don’t know about morris at all, but having two laroche brothers??? yikes.
by beantownbucsfan on Jul 31, 2008 4:42 PM EDT reply actions
More to it
I can’t imagine LA would acquire Manny without purging at least one of their current OFs. They have been trying to find playing time for Juan Pierre, Andruw Jones, Matt Kemp and Andre Ethier. Adding Manny without subtracting one of them would be overkill (though, admittedly, Manny is the best player this year of the bunch, and Jones is a bust). I’m holding out hope that Kemp is coming our way.
Hansen
Big upside. Has had trouble throwing strikes in the bigs.
Watching NESN at the moment. The Globe’s Nick Cafardo and Framingham Lou Merloni are not jazzed about this.
yeah
haha the camera was zooming in on lou, you’re right about his reaction. it’s not that he didn’t like the deal, he thinks bay will be a great addition. he just though they gave up alot. morris was a 1st rounder, could be a good starter.
by beantownbucsfan on Jul 31, 2008 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
ESPN
Confirms deal has happened, but no details.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
Avery Bryan Morris...
Class A pitcher. First round pick in 2006.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Morris
Saw him twice in high school. Great stuff. Had TJ surgery. Just now back.
Morris
Bryan Morris was LA’s #1 pick in ‘06. 2-4 with a 3.20 ERA in 17 starts. 81.2 IP 74 H 31BB 72 K
I like LaRoche
But not thrilled with the rest of the package as reported. Bryan Morris has a good arm, but is a long way from the majors and has already had TJ surgery, I believe. So are the Dodgers going to play Manny, Andruw and Juan and bench Ethier and Kemp?
Heyman doesn't mention Morris.
Pittsburgh gets Craign Hansen and Brandon Moss, both from Boston, as well as third baseman Andy LaRoche from the Dodgers and a fourth minor leaguer who has yet to be confirmed.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
NESN
Reports Sox pick up Manny’s contract. If thats true, why would they not pay for Florida?
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
Florida was asking
for a couple of million on top of paying Manny’s contract…supposedly.
Just Bay?
And four prospects, including at least one first-round pick. Doesn’t sound too bad.
Hansen
was also a first round pick out of St. John’s….......closer type if he gains control…....throws high 90s
Hansen is a reliever?
Just wondering… can he start?
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
If that's the deal
Moss is only 24 and has done well the past 2 years in AAA. LaRoche is clearly the centerpeice, and a big add – Alvarez can switch positions if it comes to that.
Despite no Kemp, I like the deal. We get a high-cieling-high-floor in LaRoce, two moderate-cieling-low-floors in Moss and Hansen, and a high-cieling-low-floor in MOrris. That’s a good return for Bay
If...
NESN people are incensed. 2 prospects, Manny, and 7 million for Bay. I don’t know yet how I’ll grade this for us, but of the three teams, I think we win the most
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
Boston fans....
...should cheer up. getting Bay should be seen as a positive. Manny had quit on the Red Sox. Bay will produce Manny-like numbers (maybe more doubles than HRs) and will be a better team player. Plus they will have Bay back at a bargain price next year with a chance to sign him longer term at less cash.
Rotoworld.
The inclusion of Moss and Hansen when they could have been used in other deals makes this an especially unimpressive deal for Boston. One could argue that Bay is as valuable as Ramirez once defense is taken into account, but there are certainly plenty of AL teams glad that the Red Sox made this trade.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Per BP
Christina Kahrl:
“Christina Kahrl (1:43:40 PM PT): Kudos to Huntington, because LaRoche and goodies for Bay is exactly the sort of improve-now move this organization and its fans could use.
“
Yay
Finally a good trade!
I’m having my faith restored in this team. We got some real potential in these guys. No more middle level prospects like the Rays offered. I’m a Rays fan too but they deserve to miss the playoffs for being stingy like that.
The Rays deserve to make the playoffs
because the Yankees & Red Sox suck.
Sorry to Jason-ity & X-Man & Marte… but I can’t root for you anymore.
It’s not your fault, but it is what it is.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Screw the Rays
They could have had Bay. I went from liking the feel-good story to rooting for Jason to win a World Series and the Rays to get swept in the first round. (The Yankees must lose, of course.)
Meh
them keeping their top guys was expected. I don’t think they expect to win it all this year anyways.
If we had been in their position, we’d have done the same thing.
And the Red Sox are just the Yankees v.2.0.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Hansen
gives us a closer until Capps returns and a quality set up guy next year (or closer if Capps has issues coming back from injury).
Expert opinion
A friend of mine at Baseball America said Neal made a good trade, for what it’s worth.
LaRoche
In ‘06 and ‘07, in the PCL, LaRoche basically hit .315/.400/.570 over 467 ABs. He’s only 24.
Goldstein calling him a “well above-average every day third baseman and occasional all-star” may well be underestimating.
Kurkjian and Phillips Like it
Feel Boston got hosed.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
But Timmy
said the Pirates were the losers of the day! Oh how quickly things change. If only that were true on the field, too!
aww crap
i don’t want steve phillips to like anything we do.
but really, i’m content with this deal.
SI.com
also now naming the 4 players the Pirates got.
Unfortunate that we couldn't get
Kemp from LA, given that they have a ton of OFs now (Manny, Pierre, Andruw, Ethier, Kemp).
I mean… is Torre gonna have OFs pitch?
And our OF now… McLouth, Pearce & Moss?
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
'Cutch is on the way...
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Jul 31, 2008 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Post-deadline deals
IIRC, the issue is you can’t trade players between leagues without clearing waivers after the deadline? If so, we could deal Wilson for Kemp still.
Kemp won't pass through waivers.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Right
But my point is, if I recall correctly and waivers are only an issue for NL/AL trades, then it wouldn’t matter
I believe ANY
post deadline deals require players to go through waivers.
Watching FSN West
WBC press conference right now, but the Dodgers are supposed to announce the trade at the end.
Dejan
The Pirates will receive third baseman Andy LaRoche – Adam’s brother – outfielder Brandon Moss, and right-handed pitchers Craig Hansen and Bryan Morris. LaRoche, Moss and Hansen will join the Pirates’ 25-man roster for the game tomorrow in Chicago. Morris will be assigned to Class A Hickory.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
the deal
i think this is great. say now you have laroche at third, if they sign alvarez he can play 1st. mclouth, moss/pearce (and hopefully eventually tabata) and mccutchen in the outfield, doumit behind the plate. besides 2b and ss, the bucs have their offense set for the future.
the staff could be snell, maholm, lincoln, morris, gorzo (fingers crossed) with capps, hansen, maybe ohlendorf or mccutchen. looks great for the bucs.
by beantownbucsfan on Jul 31, 2008 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
So who
gets dropped from the 40 man roster?? Probably Hansen, LaRoche and Moss get added to the 40 man.
Guessing
Pearce goes back to Indy, and probably Beam or Herrera, or both.
seems a bad trade for the dodgers
as a fan, considering the team isn’t in contention, this has been a pretty exciting day to follow the bucs
All of a sudden
The Pirates have a future to look forward to
Joe Sheehan from Baseball Prospectus
Says the Pirates did very well…..”good package” with LaRoche being the key obviously.
He better not be like his brother
we already have Black Hole (Adam) and Black Hole 2 (Jack Wilson) and Black Hole 3 (Bixler) etc.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
I think this turned out better
than the Marlins deal would’ve…
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Agreed
We didn’t need another OF as nice as Hermida would have been. LaRoche can make an impact now, at a position where we need it.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Jul 31, 2008 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
So the line-up now...
1- Black Hole
2- Freddy
SS- Jack
3- Other LaRoche (he needs a nickname now. so that we don’t confuse them)
C- Doumit
LF- Moss
CF- Nate
RF- Pearce
Bench
OF- Nate Sr.
C- Chavez
IF/OF- Eye Chart
IF- Joey Bats
IF- Bixler
Am I missing someone?
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Pearce to first
until Adam gets back. Is it absolutely out of the question that Jose Bautista gets DFA’d? Or maybe Gomez or Rivas?
Options
I like the options we have now. If Freddy is still dinged, both New LaRoche (White Noise???) and Joey Bats can play 2B. Bautista now becomes a super sub. Able to play 3B/2B and OF. Maybe we should get him a 1B glove too. Pearce can play 1B and RF. Eye Chart has been play 3B/1B and OF. Bixler is back to AAA, but we have Gomez and Rivas as well.
The order?
Assuming everyone is healthy, how do we bat now?
McLouth CF
Freddy 2B
Doumit C
LaRoche 3B
LaRoche 1B
Pearce RF
Moss LF
pitcher
Jack SS
This gives us a nice L/R/L/R/L/R/L/?/R order of LH/RH hitters.
I like ...
Lefty LaRoche and Righty LaRoche for nicknames.
by Pirate in Ole VA on Aug 1, 2008 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Which one
is which?
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
MLBTR on the Pirates....
For 1.3 years of Bay, the Pirates receive LaRoche, Morris, Hansen, and Moss. Moss becomes the regular left fielder, LaRoche takes over at third until Pedro Alvarez is ready. When that happens, they might have a good problem on their hands. Future Pirates’ outfield: Moss, McCutchen, McLouth. The pitchers are a couple of live arms at this point.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Outfield
The bucs are going to have a log jam in that outfield, you listed Moss, McCutchen, and McLouth, but there’s also Pearce and Tabata
Tabata is at least a year or two away
so we’ll worry about that problem when it gets here. I expect to see Pearce start at 1st tomorrow.
Um...
wouldn’t Pearce start in RF?
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Oh yeah...
Black Hole is on the DL.
Oops.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
DFA possibilities
Duffy, Morgan, Davidson, Salas, Herrera, Taubenheim, Barthmaier, Belisario? At least 2 have to go if reports of Hansen, Moss and LaRoche going on 25 man are true.
Not Tytanic!
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Whew
after all said and done, I’m glad we don’t have a game tonight, because I’m exhausted!
.500 or bust...
I'm bored.
I need more.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Clear winner
Seems like Neal made out well in this deal, compared to Boston and LA. Consider that Boston gave up Manny, $7 million and Hansen (+Moss) for Bay and LA gave up two good prospects (LaRoche, Morris) for two months of Manny and an overcrowded OF. Nice to see us on what should be the winning side of a deal, for once.
The Perfect Storm
I’m still not ready to pass judgment on the deal, but it certainly looks good (I knew something of all but Morris). That said, if it is as good as the experts are making it out to be, then it should be noted that it likely resulted from a perfect storm of Boston feeling that it had to dump Manny. Me thinks ownership may have meddled in another team’s baseball affairs and – for once – we benefited!
I still think Hermida & 2 top prospects from Florida would’ve been more exciting, but the Marlins are clearly delusional.
A good day to be a Bucco fan. One of the few.
Good day.
The only thing that bums me out
is how much the Boston fans are undervaluing Bay. I’m just going to assume it’s because they don’t know anything about him because nobody knows anything about our buccos outside of our own fans…
.500 or bust...
Charlie's thoughts
are on the main page. He already has a post up.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Craig Hansen
His stats at AAA this year are in relief. Is he still viewed as starting pitching prospect?
Don't think
Hansen was ever viewed as a starter. He was a reliever in college. He’s certainly a candidate to close until Capps is back.
At one time
there were talks about converting him to starter, and I think they even tried it in winter league one year, but the pen is where he belongs. When he can locate it, he SHOULD be able to get guys out on his fastball alone.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
I think they said
(when I asked earlier) that he’s always been a reliever.
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
DK wont be updating for a while
says he is going to PNC for a news conference.
Over At Pinstripe Ally
They’re dancing on Manny’s grave.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
wow
when was the last time that people were saying how great the pirates made out on a deal?
this is awesome
Hmmm...
What will the SOX-NYY fans do when Nady and Bay dine together?
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
Another reason . . .
I’ve become disillusioned with the Sox.
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