Trade Deadline Thread: Bay to Red Sox?

Manny Ramirez has approved a deal to Miami, Sports Illustrated reports. No trade is final yet, and it remains possible that the Pirates could be left out of the deal even if it does happen. (Thanks to Dejan Kovacevic.)

Ken Rosenthal, meanwhile, says the deal is closer to getting done and quotes a source saying that the Pirates are getting what they want. We'll see. (Thanks to woobie.)

UPDATE 1:00: Kovacevic also reports that Ronny Paulino could be involved in the deal. This is just too good to be true...

UPDATE 1:05: Jayson Stark reports that the Jays are interested in Bay now too. Is every AL East team in on this? The Orioles must be feeling pretty left out. Anyway, Toronto seems like a pretty farfetched destination for Bay, even if they like their fellow Canadians up there, but then again the Jays aren't run in a way that makes a lot of sense.

UPDATE 1:10: Will Carroll says the Bucs will probably keep Bay for now if the negotiations with Florida and Boston fall through. 

UPDATE 1:24: Kovacevic now says the Pirates are happy with what they're getting but Florida wants more money. What a surprise. 

UPDATE 1:38: Stark says multiple sources say the deal is dead:

[T]he teams involved seem unsure of what happened. The Pirates are blaming the Marlins. The Marlins are blaming the Pirates. And the Red Sox aren't too happy with either of them.

UPDATE 1:45: Lots of websites moving very, very slowly right now. I'm glad Bucs Dugout isn't one of them (yet).

UPDATE 1:51: Thanks to dtoddwin, who caught that the Mets want Ian Snell and would use him as a reliever. If true, that's a pretty hilarious idea--the Mets have little in the way of prospects, and Snell's value to the Pirates as a starter is much greater than his value to the Mets as a reliever.

UPDATE 1:54: Kovacevic now reports that the Marlins are holding up the deal, and that the Rays could still end up trading for Bay.

UPDATE 2:03: Ken Rosenthal says the talks are dead and it's because the Marlins wouldn't give the Bucs enough prospects. There's still some time left, though.

UPDATE 2:13: Stark now writes that the Bucs and Rays are talking again. He thinks the Rays might be willing to build a deal around Reid Brignac and Jeff Niemann. I don't think that would be enough for me; I'm probably less impressed than most with either of those two.

UPDATE 2:17: Rosenthal reports that the Jays are also pursuing Raul Ibanez, perhaps as an alternative to Bay.

UPDATE 2:20: Kovacevic says the price for Bay is too high for Toronto.

UPDATE 2:34: I can't get into the Post-Gazette site right now, but woobie says Kovacevic is reporting the Pirates asked for starter Shaun Marcum and top prospect Travis Snider, and that's what annoyed the Jays so much. Snider is the obvious sticking point there, and he seems to me like the only possible centerpiece the Jays could have offered, from what I know offhand of their farm system.

UPDATE 2:49: woobie points out that SI reports that the the Dodgers are now involved in the Ramirez dealings, but that they've only offered Andre Ethier, which (in my opinion, and also in SI's reporting) simply won't get the deal done. They also say that talks with the Marlins aren't completely dead.

UPDATE 3:00: Over at BP, John Perrotto writes that the Bucs are "extremely disappointed" that the trade hasn't worked out. Kevin Goldstein also says the problem was that the Marlins wanted more than just Ramirez. 

UPDATE 3:17: Bill Chastain says that Bay is going to the Rays for Niemann and Brignac. I don't know who Chastain is, so take it with a grain of salt for now.

UPDATE 3:18: ESPN reports merely that Bay-to-Tampa is still a possibility.

UPDATE 3:21: Carroll also says it's Bay for Niemann and Brignac.

UPDATE 3:26: Goldstein reports this as well. In every report I've seen, there aren't any other prospects, just Niemann and Brignac. My first impression is that I don't like this at all.

UPDATE 3:28: It should be emphasized that no one has offered a confirmed report yet. Just 20 minutes ago, Rosenthal wrote that the Pirates were trying to get a different pitcher--not Niemann--and other players.

UPDATE 3:32: Man, the Post-Gazette just seems to be completely kaput.

UPDATE 3:36: Goldstein reports that neither the Rays nor Pirates will confirm anything, and that both teams will stay mum until the deadline passes.

UPDATE 3:42: Jennifer Langosch reports that it's Niemann and Brignac.

UPDATE 3:46: Kovacevic says it's Brignac and Niemann, but that's not all.

UPDATE 3:59: Rosenthal says the Manny talks could be back on.

UPDATE 4:04: Carroll now says, "Deal OFF for Bay? Hearing conflicting things." Well, duh. 

UPDATE 4:06: Also says Brignac and Niemann weren't enough, and Bay's staying. Of course, he reported that the trade was on before, so make what you will of that information.

UPDATE 4:22: I've got nothing.

UPDATE 4:23: There are a couple posters on Primer saying that NESN has reported that the Ramirez trade did, in fact, happen. No word on whether the Pirates were involved. Obviously, this is just a couple of message board posters, so...

UPDATE 4:28: Langosch now says Bay was possibly traded to the Dodgers. Again, she mangled the Tampa non-trade earlier. It may be a while before we find out what really  happened.

UPDATE 4:33: Heyman has Ramirez going to the Dodgers.

UPDATE 4:35: Kovacevic confirms that Tampa's out. This is about the only report published in the last hour that I'd actually believe.

UPDATE 4:39: Heyman has Bay going to the Red Sox, with the Bucs getting four prospects. It's a three-team deal. Apparently. 

UPDATE 4:42: Rosenthal has the Bucs getting Andy LaRoche and Bryan Morris from LA and Craig Hansen and Brandon Moss from Boston.

UDPATE 4:50: If this is the trade, I'm cautiously pretty psyched about this. LaRoche is a very good prospect who's been in a very bad situation for him; I think he'll hit. Morris has already had Tommy John surgery, but he's 21, is a former first round pick, and has both good stats and a good fastball. Hansen and Moss are lower-upside guys, but they should both be helpful also. I need to do more research, but so far, I like this. 

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