What Do Ricardo Rincon, Roberto Hernandez and Rob Mackowiak Have in Common?
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 31, 2008 11:39 PM EDT
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So much for so little. Now if only the other 95% of the Pirates' transactions the past fifteen years hadn't been the complete opposite.
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Dear Charlie
Nice chart.
And so what do Jason Bay, Ollie Perez, X-man, and D-Mart have in common? As in, who brought them to the Pirates to unleash their potential and value?
Sincerely,
Dave Littleyield’s (oops, Littlefield’s) Mom
(there have been worse GM’s in the history of baseball … probably. No?)
by bringbackrichiezisk on Aug 1, 2008 2:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Spin, hell
It’s kind of how you have to LOOK at things, not spin them. Players are assets. It doesn’t mean you can’t get emotionally attached to some of them—I don’t care if his OPS is in the 600s, I’d miss Jack Wilson, and I’ll miss Bay and Nady. But this isn’t a way to view the trades through rose-colored glasses; it’s a reasonable metric through which to analyze the movement of ballplayers.
Ouch
“Trenton’s George Kontos was nearly traded to the Pittsburgh Pirates as part of the deal that brought Xavier Nady and Damaso Marte to the New York Yankees. On Thursday afternoon, the 23-year-old right-hander showed the Pirates just what they missed out on. Kontos faced Pittsburgh’s Double-A affiliate, the Altoona Curve, and struck out a career-high 13 batters over eight innings of one-hit ball. “
To be fair, Altoona is pretty god damn awful.
Also I would have like to have gotten Kontos and Coke instead of Karstens and McCutchen, but it’s still too early to say much about them either way.
ok that explains some
are they worse than Indianapolis? I was checking out there team and they got Jorge Cortes, a guy that played for the Astros AA Corpus Christi Hooks, A team that I go see down here and he blew horribly. If the organization knows what is good for them they better get rid of him for some brightly colored hats or a donkey. Same goes for Barthmaier, he played down here as well.
I want to see ...
the chart for the other 95%. A picture is worth … many words. Great graphic!
by Pirate in Ole VA on Aug 1, 2008 12:35 AM EDT reply actions
Check Out
This video I saw posted on the PG blog…..Great initial unsanitized reaction by Phillips…not sure if you’ve seen it, but it’s pretty good!
sports.espn.go.com/.../videopage
From the blog…
“check out steve phillps rxn (at around 1:30 left in the video) when he finds out what pieces the pirates were getting from the RedSox…priceless”.
by GlennWilson'sArm on Aug 1, 2008 12:43 AM EDT reply actions
Is Kurkjian just entering puberty?
He would be unlistenable just reading a menu with that cracking voice of his. But throw in that some of the words coming out of his mouth are “(Jason Bay) isn’t nearly the hitter Manny Ramirez is” and I just want to karate chop him in the throat. Or kick him in the nuts or something, to first, fix his stupid voicebox, and first, knock some sense into him. Not only are they very close to equal at this point in their careers, but Manny’s defensive ability, so to speak, just took a nosedive going to spacious Chavez Ravine, while Bay’s LF duties just got a whole lot easier at Fenway.
Nats have released ...
Lo Duca, Estrada, and Felipe Lopez.
by Pirate in Ole VA on Aug 1, 2008 12:43 AM EDT reply actions
Somewhere Littlefield
rubs his hands in anticipation …
Is everyone standing in line ...
to piss on the Littlefield Legacy?
by Pirate in Ole VA on Aug 1, 2008 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm just funnin ...
I remember Jeremy Burnitz.
by Pirate in Ole VA on Aug 1, 2008 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
Yes, we are. Well, not to piss on his legacy. We’d be happy to piss on him personally. Unless he were on fire, which I’d be happy to set.
I get the picture ...
but, ... I just can’t picture tomorrow’s lineup without Bay, Nady and Lefty LaRoche!
Who bats cleanup? Jack or Freddie? Or, will JR move the pitcher to the cleanup spot?
I’m confused! Can Moss or Righty LaRoche bat leadoff? How will Bautista react?
by Pirate in Ole VA on Aug 1, 2008 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions
A guess
2B Freddy
CF McLouth
C Doumit
1B Eyechart
3B LaRoche
LF Moss
RF Pearce
P Karstens
SS Jack
Not the way I’d draw it up, but that’s my best guess.
My preference
I guess I should post what I’d like as well… The only offensive value Dougie provides is OBP right now, and Lil LaRoche has great discipline as well.
3B LaRoche
1B Eyechart
CF McLouth
C Doumit
LF Moss
RF Pearce
2B Freddy
P Karstens
SS Jack
I like McClouth at leadoff ...
he just seems more comfortable there. I don’t have any #’s, but, he’s
seemed more productive at leadoff.
by Pirate in Ole VA on Aug 1, 2008 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions
JR's Lineup today likely this.........
CF McLouth
2b Sanchez/Rivas
LF Moss
C Doumit
3B Little LaRoche
1b Minkie
RF Pearce
P Karstens
SS Jack Flash
Hey, I was pretty close
Rivas replaces Freddy (at this point, aren’t they practically the same player?), Eyechart moves up two slots, Michaels replaces Pearce (to allow Moss to play RF), and Jack bats eighth.
OOO
Could you add Dave Williams > Sean Casey> Jesse Chavez?
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
I Agree
I am a GC fan but his take on the trade irritated me. He was critcal but offered no alternitive. Perhaps the assumed alternative was to keep Bay (which won’t have been the worst thing in the world) and Nady and Marte. Very short-termed thinking on his part and I’m sure on the part of many so-called Pirate fans.
That's what bugs me the most
I usually don’t mind him all that much, especially compared to the other opinionated windbags, but he’s clearly writing purely from emotion and not thinking this thing through. Yes, we’ll probably have to endure a couple more losing seasons, but for the first time in a long time, I can at least imagine a light at the end of the tunnel…
Also, it’s not like Huntington hasn’t done this kind of thing in other markets. He’s obviously willing to make those “unpopular decisions” that he said he would make. I’d rather roll the dice like this than not even know what dice are like our past management…
.500 or bust...
Hit the nail on the head
Perhaps we keep all three.
We lose Nady and Marte to Free Agency and still have Jason Bay.
Who? do we bring up?
Hitting: McCutcheon is the only player really almost ready to play in Big leagues with a big league bat. No one else is really ready according to management, and there isn’t much talent in the minors aside from the recent draft and a couple of DL trades from last year.
Pitching:
we’ve seen all the pitching depth in the AAA and AA. Can Gorzo get back to his winning ways, can Snell get back to dominating a game? or is it Maholm that’s gonna carry the torch for next years pitching. Last year it looked like our starting pitching was gonna be our strong point. Now it just looks lousy and pathetic at times and AAA pitchers are no boon.
Are the fans happy with the 2008 team currently? No.
That’s what the 2009 Team would be without the trades as unpopular as they are.
Such is the nature of MLB until MLB and the MLBPA try to install a Salary cap which will never happen.
The thing that gets me...
is that the yinzer masses (and much of the media) is pissed because “the Pirates can’t or won’t spend what it takes” to keep players like Bay, Nady, etc. THAT IS NOT RELEVANT in assessing the recent trades.
Suppose that we could and did lock Bay & Nady up long term, it still does not give us a realistic hope of competing for a championship. The most optimistic outlook would be that we could be on the fringe of the playoff race next year (with zero chance of making a playoff run) – and that is very optimistic. These trades improve our outlook. Even if they don’t work in practice, the theory is correct – building through trades by selling players at peak value for maximum return. In my opinion, our chances of being good in 2010 are far better today than a week ago at this time. At the same time, our outlook for next year isn’t subtantially worse because the pre-trade upside wasn’t high to begin with.
I’m still not spending a penny on the Pirates until I see an intelligent, substantial financial commitment to winning at the major league level from ownership. But that has nothing to do with the analysis regarding the theory behind and return for these trades. It is sad that most in the general public are too stupid/nieve/ignorant to realize it.
Good day.
Todays lineup..
As posted by DK:
1. Luis Rivas 2B.
2. Doug Mientkiewicz 1B.
3. Nate McLouth CF.
4. Ryan Doumit C.
5. Andy LaRoche 3B.
6. Brandon Moss RF.
7. Jason Michaels LF.
8. Jack Wilson SS.
9. Karstens
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