Dodgers GM Colletti: I'll Pay Through the Nose for a Shortstop
The Dodgers are in an awkward spot, waiting for the kids to succeed, antsy for the kids to succeed. They wouldn't trade Matt Kemp for Sabathia, the right call, and Kemp alone would not have gotten the deal done...
Ned Colletti, the Dodgers' general manager, would not discuss specific players but said he could not have completed a deal without disrupting the major league roster.
"We'd be filling one hole and creating two others," Colletti said. "That's not something we're interested in doing."
And, had the Indians said yes to the Dodgers' offer of minor leaguers for Sabathia, the Dodgers would have lost the prospects they'll probably need for what Colletti calls the top priority, a trade for a shortstop.
They've targeted Jack Wilson of the Pittsburgh Pirates, with less interest in David Eckstein of the Toronto Blue Jays -- they would have minimal range up the middle with Eckstein at shortstop and Jeff Kent at second base -- and no apparent interest in Omar Vizquel of the San Francisco Giants.
If the Dodgers wouldn't trade Kemp for Sabathia, it doesn't seem likely they'd trade him for Wilson, unless they've decided that shortstop is that important. Which, actually, is possible. It sounds like the Pirates will have a very good position from which to negotiate. In this article, Colletti appears to acknowledge that he's not going to pull off a very good trade:
Already, the Dodgers have asked the Pittsburgh Pirates about Jack Wilson. But landing Wilson or any other shortstop at this stage probably would cost the Dodgers multiple players.
"It's not an easy position to fill, especially mid-season, but we're going to see," Colletti said.
Normally I'd say that what the Pirates should do is to wait a few days and let Colletti see what Nomar Garciaparra's shortstop defense is actually like. The guy will be 35 in two weeks, he can't stay healthy and he was moved off the position years ago. But Colletti already appears to recognize that he's got problems, and that a good shortstop won't come cheaply. Maybe it's still possible to get Kemp.
UPDATE: I just found this:
"We're more open-minded to who we may have to move," Colletti said...
Colletti's comments echoed what owner Frank McCourt told me earlier in the week when asked about the possibility of trading some of the kids. He said the ones they will hold onto are "the ones who are prepared to put in the work, listen to coaches and get better every day." The kids who they would be willing to part with are "the ones that can't do those things."
Like the commenters here, I'm pretty sure "the ones that can't do those things" means "Matt Kemp." Bad GM plus meddlesome owner could be a winning combination for the Pirates. I also agree with the same commenters that if I were the Pirates I'd be very aggressive about this, perhaps offering Wilson and Nady for Kemp and a prospect. (The Dodgers might be reluctant to part with Kemp not so much because they like him, but because they need him. Give the Dodgers an outfielder, and they might be more willing to make the deal.)
UPDATE 2: The Pirates say Wilson will probably stay. I'm not sure whether that means anything, but the Bucs at least sound less desperate than the Dodgers do.
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37 comments
Comments
I wouldn't include Nady with Wilson in a trade for Kemp
maybe Chris Duffy, but not Nady; trade him to someone else. and keep in mind that the Pirates likely need a shortstop if Wilson goes.
by humbucker on Jul 7, 2008 11:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You worry about the SS hole later
if you can get a player like Kemp. But if NH is worried about it, he can ask for Hu as the second or third player coming back.
by DITO on Jul 8, 2008 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hu's on short?
Slump’s on second, I Can’t Hit Till July’s on first …
by bucdaddy on Jul 8, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To continue a diatribe from another thread ...
So how many is “multiple players” exactly? Two? A bajillion? It has no end point. It’s far more vague than “some” or “a few,” but hey, it has the benefit of being three syllables long, whereas a stupid, simple word like “some” has just one, and how you gonna impress the chicks when you use simple English that everyone can understand? Chicks dig the long word, even if they don’t know what it means! Plus cops like to use it a lot (“multiple stab wounds”) so it must make ME sound authoritative too!
Perrotto I guess I can understand, given where he works, but I expect better editing out of the LA Times.
by bucdaddy on Jul 7, 2008 11:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I was with you on the Perrotto one, but I don’t see the problem with it there. “Some” sounds deliberately casual, as if the reporter has no idea how many players will be needed and doesn’t care; “a few” rules out the possibility of it being two players. I guess you could say “two or more,” but that’s the same number of syllables.
by Charlie on Jul 7, 2008 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll have another go ...
and then I’ll quit being a sentence construction Nazi for awhile.
My problem is that “multiple” is so open-ended as to be meaningless. As vague as they are, “some” and “a few” are, I think, far more specific. Nobody thinks “a few” means more than … what, five maybe? Anyway, for purposes of clear writing, even though “two or three” is the same number of syllables, that’s what I would use, because that’s even more specific than “a few.”
You’re right that this is a little different from Perotto’s case. There, he was just being redundant. This is an attempt to convey additional information, but it could havbe been made a lot more specific, which IMHO would be better.
by bucdaddy on Jul 8, 2008 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he says the exact number of sources...
...it makes it easier for the Dodgers/Pirates to track down and silence any leaks. If he keeps it vague, he protects them a little bit, since the teams won’t know whether they’ve gotten them all or not.
by Vlad on Jul 8, 2008 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He could write
“Sources say …” and achieve the same thing.
by bucdaddy on Jul 8, 2008 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You just don't like the word multiple.
Did you have a mean math teacher when you were a kid?
by Vlad on Jul 9, 2008 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he meant...
...a no-good English teacher?
Kidding, of course.
by Vlad on Jul 10, 2008 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like . . .
. . . Coletti’s IQ is dropping by the minute. And that owner meddling is like an invitation to plunder. Time to strike.
by WTM on Jul 7, 2008 11:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Deperate people make good trades for the other team (See Jack Morris-2007)
A quote from Doug Horton:
“DESPERATION is like stealing from the Mafia: you stand a good chance of attracting the wrong attention.” .
Give them Jack and Michaels, or Morgan for Kemp or Loney - afterall they are "Desperate." Nady can bring more later from another team.
by long4willie on Jul 7, 2008 11:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nady and Wilson
for Kemp and ????
Hu might become Jack’s replacement.
Steve Z
by steve_z on Jul 7, 2008 11:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hu and McDonald
except that it will probably take Bay instead of Nady to get this deal done.
by WestCoastBuc on Jul 8, 2008 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two former All Stars for two prospects
Sounds lopsided to me. The Pirates would take on all of the risk in this trade. The Dodgers would need to compensate the Pirates for assuming this risk. Bay, then, would be too much. Bay would be too much for Wilson and ??? for Hu and Kemp.
Steve Z
by steve_z on Jul 8, 2008 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two former All Stars
Former being the key word in Wilson’s case. The guys we would get back would be younger and Kemp is legit.
Sure, the ideal would be something like Nady and Wilson for Kemp, Hu and McDonald, but the Bucs still win with Bay and Wilson for Kemp and Hu or McDonald.
by DITO on Jul 8, 2008 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From the DodgerDugout blog:
“The only way Matt Kemp makes any sense in such a deal is if Jason Bay is part of the package. Otherwise, Hu for Wilson straight up is a legitimate offer as it relieves the Pirates of his fat contract.”
and
“Look for Andy LaRoche to be part of any package for a left-side infielder. He’s a bigger chip than DeWitt and the Dodgers may have resigned themselves into realizing that they simply cannot hold on to everyone.”
by long4willie on Jul 7, 2008 11:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Pirates would not be dumping salary hen wthey trade Wilson
That’s why Hu for Wilson makes no sense for the Pirates. The Pirates would only trade Wilson for players they believe would help the organization.
The baseball value will determine this deal.
Steve Z
by steve_z on Jul 8, 2008 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kemp
If the Pirates can get Kemp, they should go after him. If the Dodgers really need a SS as much as they say they do, Wilson for Kemp is not that far fetched. Adding someone like Duffy or Morgan and getting Hu in return makes a lot of sense as well. This McDonald kid seems to be a solid pitching prospect and if a deal like Wilson and Nady would net the Pirates Kemp, McDonald and Hu then they should consider it. An OF of McLouth, Kemp and Bay (with McCutcheon at AAA) puts Pearce back at 1B along with LaRoche and creates more pieces (Bay and LaRoche) for the Pirates to deal and get more top porspects back in return. It would also add McDonald into the rotation mix as early as ‘09.
by Brakeman8 on Jul 8, 2008 12:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hold the phones
According to Dejan, Wilson probably, unfortunately, will stay put.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08190/895468-63.stm?cmpid=pirates.xml
by woobie on Jul 8, 2008 12:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Smart Coonelly public comment
Summary: PBC doesn’t need to trade Wilson. He’s not overpaid, he’s signed for 3 more years, nobody on the farm is pushing him. Nope, the team doesn’t want to trade WIlson at all. Management will listen to offers - no one is untouchable - but it doubts Wilson will be traded.
It’s the anti-Littlefield strategy. Wow.
This must be makinig Neddy crazy. Torre, all 3 McCourts, Lasorda, Ng and every columnist and reporter in town are breathing down his neck and if he doesn’t make it to the NL championship round, he’s probably fired. He’s already calling a 23 yo “not young” and trashing Kemp publicly.
Wilson & Duffy for Kemp & Hu. Neddy hates them both - Hu for cratering to the pressure of LA, and Kemp for being a neo-Jose Guillen. Otherwise Coonelly should offer Neddy a $1 a hole golf match at Oakmont on Oct. 1 - Coletti won’t be busy.
And management should be real slow in returnning Neddy’s calls.
by WstCstBucco on Jul 8, 2008 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very good to hear...
The beauty of this situation is that we actually would benefit from keeping Wilson for the next couple of years, so it shouldn’t be difficult to drive up his value. Jack is a good defensive SS who can hit a little, he just figures to lose that ability while becoming more expensive by the next time the Bucs have a chance to be good. But there is no reason for Coletti not to think that NH would like to keep Wilson over the next couple years unless he gets top dollar.
by DITO on Jul 8, 2008 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's scary
is that article reads like the Pirates are very satisfied with their roster…which is a mistake of epic proportions.
by Thunder on Jul 8, 2008 7:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Leverage
You have none if you let everyone know the fire sale is on.
by matskralc on Jul 8, 2008 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And which
general manager is not aware of the Pirates situation?? I don’t want to see our management GIVE players away, but the quotes lead me to believe that our management still thinks this team is competitive enough as it is constituted.
Short of Dumatrait, Snell and Gorzo coming back and having ERA’s around 3 and winning percentages around .650…we’re looking at another 72-90 season…if we are lucky…because we haven’t had one of the disaster streaks we are famous for. Those usually come immediately after the All-Star game.
by Thunder on Jul 8, 2008 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great postering by management
I like the same party line that management is using, these players won’t be cheap. Wilson is a perfect fit for the Dodgers, he’s from near LA, he hits well in their ball park, and he IS ripe for the pickin. Who would’ve have thunk that Wilson would be able to bring some players this year. The tiny light is getting brighter at the end of the tunnel.
by long4willie on Jul 8, 2008 1:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If the lineup on Aug. 1
is the same as it is now , I will slit my wrists.
by bucdaddy on Jul 8, 2008 11:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Shall we keep the
sharp objects hidden after the 31st?? If you believe what the Pirates management says in the press…yes.
by Thunder on Jul 8, 2008 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I, on the other hand,
will slit Neal Huntington’s wrists.
by EmmaOMG on Jul 8, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe...
we won’t get any good offers. Maybe the best deal will be akin to the Bay for Lee/Shoppach/etc. deal. I wouldn’t slit my wrist if Neal refuses to move guys for less than he thinks they are worth. Right now, I am trusting his judgment as the guy who knows what is and isn’t available.
by hisjazziness on Jul 8, 2008 12:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That may be so ...
but being pretty much doomed to spending 2009 watching the same people we’ve been doomed to watch this year - who were pretty much the same people we were doomed to watch last year - doesn’t seem like much of a reason to go on living.
by bucdaddy on Jul 8, 2008 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If management moves Wilson
It will be the first “large” decision on which to judge the new regime. Until that happens, it’s just incredibly refreshing not having Littlefield involved.
by vherub on Jul 10, 2008 4:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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