Astros 6, Pirates 4
by Charlie
on Jul 9, 2008 11:07 PM EDT
John Van Benschoten racked up six walks today. He allowed four runs in 4.2 innings, which lowered his ERA.
John Russell before the game:
“There is a difference between Class AAA and the major leagues because you’re now playing at the highest level of baseball but a lot of it is also mental,” Russell said. “I’ve seen hitters tear up Class AAA and then be completely different hitters in the major leagues.
“I don’t think there is a question of John having the talent to compete at the major-league level. I think it’s a matter of him not worrying about who he is facing and trying to be so fine with all his pitches, and instead just going out and pitching the way he’s capable of pitching.”
That's not the problem, really. The problem is that Van Benschoten is just terrible. He had a 2.56 ERA at Indianapolis last year, but he also struck out only 6.52 batters per nine and walked 4.21. That's really bad. This year those numbers are better, but still not great. You can't just look at minor league ERA, even a Class AAA ERA, and imagine it will translate. While Van Benschoten's minor league numbers suggest he's better than a 10.00 ERA, he could do a lot better than that and still be unworthy of a big-league roster spot.
I'm sure Russell, who used to manage in Class AAA, knows all that. But come on. Van Benschoten is no mystery. He's 28. He's a decent AAA pitcher. It really couldn't be simpler.
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Tomorrow's Yankees make-up game
Since the original game in June was broadcast in FSN-HD on FSN Pittsburgh, will Thursday night’s makeup game be broadcast in standard def or high-def?
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 10, 2008 2:53 AM EDT 0 recs
JVB
JVB throws some heat, and has a breaking pitch that he can get near the strike zone. Last year he was still recovering from surgery, but this year in the minors he really has pitched well. Really, he shouldn’t be THAT bad. But then he walks the 8 and 9 hitter twice in a row, both with 2 outs…the problem has to be in his head, over thinking, or whatever. I think there’s still some small hope that he can be big league pitcher, perhaps a reliever, but I seriously doubt he can do it with the Pirates. Wouldn’t surprise me if we cut him, and he shows up on the, like, Nationals in two years and performs semi effectively.
by brooklynpirate on Jul 10, 2008 8:03 AM EDT 0 recs
How many chances will JVB be given...
before management finally decides that he does not have what it takes to succeed at the MLB level? If there is no adequate talent remaining at Indy then go down to the next level and bring up what’s available. We have nothing to lose because Neil insured that when he chose to stand pat with the same squad that won 68 games last year. What does it take for Neil to pull the trigger on a deal? What’s he waiting for? Isn’t anybody else frustrated enough over 16 years of losing to demand some trades or is everybody content with another year of 68 wins. I think it’s time to pull the plug on Neil’s plan and blow up the team and start over. What do we have to lose?
by Illinois Pirate Fan on Jul 10, 2008 9:30 AM EDT 0 recs
IPF
There is a plan in place, but the current brass cannot undo many years of bad drafting, near non-existent player development, awful trades etc. in just a few months. Give them some time!
What do we have to lose?
A heckuva lot more if Huntington makes the wrong moves with the few bargaining chips we have.
If he gets what he believes to be sufficient value for certain players, I`m sure he will make the moves. But he`s not going to trade just to trade. And considering the suspect prospects that some on this site wanted Wilson traded to the Dodgers for; I`m glad he hasn`t made moved Jack.
If other clubs don`t want to offer enough for Marte, you can bet the Bucs will keep him the rest of the year, offer arbitration, and get the comp picks in return-something DL never did.
If another team wants Nady and/or Bay, they have to give enough to help the Pirates in the long term.
The Baseball America approach that is sometimes advocated by posters on this site is B.S.
(I read about this prospect on one or two sites and SOMEBODY said he has POTENTIAL and I know it must be true because I played HS baseball and I have a fantasy team so I know a lot about the game so trade the big leaguer(s) now because it will make us a better team. We`ll have some prospects with potential! We made some trades! We`re saved!)
Until they demonstrate otherwise like DL, McClatchy and others did year in and year out, I`m going to give Huntington and his people the chance to prove they know what they are doing and can build a franchise that can put winning teams on the field.
by patthatt on
Jul 10, 2008 10:51 AM EDT
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As always, when you bring this up...
...I’m going to re-ask the question that you’ve steadfastly refused to answer. What deal available to Huntington over the offseason should he have taken?
Also, there’s no upside to bringing up unready AA guys instead of unready AAA guys. If a guy’s not ready, then he’s not ready. They’re probably giving JVB a long look this year because they want to know whether to hang onto him for another season or punt him off the roster.
by Vlad on
Jul 10, 2008 3:30 PM EDT
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Johnny V
The Bucs should do with Johnny V is give him an outfielders glove and try to make an Ankiel out of him. Hopefully we have good HGH for JVB somewhere.
by kjcity520 on Jul 10, 2008 9:52 AM EDT 0 recs
Actually,
JVB is a pretty good pitcher for a first baseman. As a pitcher, he’s a bad pitcher.
“I think it’s a matter of him not worrying about who he’s facing …”
How many times have we read this about a bad pitcher? And how many times has said pitcher ever turned into a good pitcher? Nook LaLoosh aside, I’m guessing the answer is about never. Seems like once it gets into your head, it’s in there for good.
by bucdaddy on Jul 10, 2008 10:06 AM EDT 0 recs
LOL but I don't know,
I’ll bet they wrote something like that about a lot of pitchers that turned out to be good. For instance Greg Maddux started his career 8-18 with and ERA over 5.50. I’m sure somebody wrote something like –
“Greg will be all right, he just needs to settle down and stop worrying about who he is facing.”
BTW, after that start Maddux would have gone on to pitch 200 plus innings in 19 straight years except that he only pitched 199.1 in one of them.
by WestCoastBuc on
Jul 10, 2008 10:28 AM EDT
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Maddux
(and Glavine too, 9-21 w/ high ERAs his first two years) struggled because they were 21, 22 years old. Plus Maddux was on a poor team and Glavine was on a terrible team. They got it straightened out right around 23. JVB is 28. He’s long past the point he should have young-pitcher mental hang-ups for an excuse.
by bucdaddy on
Jul 10, 2008 3:58 PM EDT
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JVB's replacement is
Luis Munoz from Altoona…wearing Bob Veale’s old number…39.
by Thunder on Jul 10, 2008 11:33 AM EDT 0 recs
We're gonna be getting rid of these people here... First,
John Van Ben… Van Ben… Van Ben… Been scored on again anyway.
by azibuck on Jul 10, 2008 11:42 AM EDT 0 recs
Yes and no, Charlie.
Some of it comes down to his minor league numbers not translating all that well, as you note. Even back when he was a hot prospect, analysts talked more about his body and physical projection than his performance. He’s never been much of a strikeout guy, and he’s always had some trouble controlling his breaking ball.
On the other hand, over his career at AAA he’s got 6.88 K/9, 3.81 BB/9, and 0.93 HR/9. That’s not good, but you’d still expect something like an ERA in the mid 5s from those peripherals, not the complete and total immolation that we’ve gotten so far. Thus, Russell probably has at least part of a point. If not JVB’s mental approach, then where are the other four runs coming from?
by Vlad on Jul 10, 2008 3:38 PM EDT 0 recs
That’s what I was getting at with this:
“While Van Benschoten’s minor league numbers suggest he’s better than a 10.00 ERA, he could do a lot better than that and still be unworthy of a big-league roster spot.”
His minor league numbers are really not good enough for Russell to waste much mental energy worrying about it. Even just based on his minor league numbers, he’s replacement-level at best.
by Charlie on
Jul 10, 2008 4:03 PM EDT
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Yes, JVB is replacement level
JVB is a replacement level pitcher, granted, but his major league ERA is significantly below replacement. A lot of this appears to be luck. His xFIP (which is supposedly a better predictor of future ERA than ERA) is 5.60 for this year based on his peripherals (GB%, BB%, K%). That is awful, but better than the 9.77 he has so far. 30% of the fly balls he has allowed have gone over the fence. That’s unbelievable and won’t continue.
The problem is that even if that goes back to normal he’ll still be an awful pitcher, and at 28 he is not going to get much better. I would rather see Barthmaier (or even Bullington, though I guess that’s not happening any more) than him.
by shayborg on
Jul 10, 2008 4:19 PM EDT
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I'd rather see JVB than Bullington
When a guy has good stuff, there’s always at least a slight chance he’ll put it together, but a no-stuff guy like Bullington is always going to struggle.
Barthmaier is more promising than both, but probably at least a year away from being ready. I mean, at this time last year he was getting stomped in AA. No point in having him get his brains beat in at this point, IMO.
by Vlad on
Jul 10, 2008 7:27 PM EDT
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Replacement level is replacement level...
...but at this point, most of our other options at hand are probably below replacement level. It sucks, but you can’t turn around a farm system overnight.
by Vlad on
Jul 10, 2008 7:28 PM EDT
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That’s true, unfortunately, but my point is that if you have a guy who’s replacement-level on a good day and already has a history of blowing it badly in the majors, why fret about it? Just find someone else and move on.
by Charlie on
Jul 10, 2008 8:01 PM EDT
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