New Pirates Top 10 Prospects
by succos12 on Aug 16, 2008 9:44 AM EDT
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PrintNow that the prospect signing deadline and the trading deadline has past, I think it will be fun to project the top 10 prospects. Here is mine:
1. Pedro Alverez
2. Andrew McCutchen
3. Jose Tabata
4. Bryan Morris
5. Neil Walker
6. Daniel McCutchen
7. Jamie Romak
8. Brad Lincoln
9. Robbie Grossman
10. Shelby Ford
Others Receiving Votes: Jordy Mercer, Justin Wilson, Brian Friday, Daniel Moskos, Dave Davidson, Quinton Miller, Wesley Freeman
Lets see what you think. This is way more fun than usual.
Edit: I would have included ohlendorf, but I thought he had to many MLB IP. I see only has 47 IP, so he is eligible. I would have placed him 8th right in front of Lincoln, and knocking ford out of the top 10.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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What motivated you
to put MOSKOS on that list. He has shown nothing last year or this year to even hint at being a top prospect.
Highly Rated 1st Rnd Pick
I know he shouldn’t have been 4th overall, but he was pretty much in every teams top 20 going into the 07 draft. I don’t think you can give up on a guy rated that high by most MLB scouting departments after 1 year.
Here is my list (and my estimate of their grades)
1. Andrew McCutchen A-
2. Pedro Alvarez B+ (or more)
3. Jose Tabata B
4. Dan McCutchen B-
5. Neil Walker B-
6. Bryan Morris B-/C+
7. Brad Lincoln C+
8. Ross Ohlendorf C+
9. Matt Hague C+
10. Jarek Cunningham C+
My next five would be Barthmaier, Meek, Ford, Ronald Uviedo and Romak
Excluded from this list (due to their MLB playing time) are:
Andy LaRoche B+
Moss C+
Pearce B-/C+
Hansen C+
Karstens C+
Our farm system is vastly better than it was at the start of the year
I’ll be even more excited when I see what Grossman, Freeman and Quinton Miller can do.
WTM...
always curious to hear his take on this topic, all things considered. Curious to see if WTM would have a top 10 list of the best picks of the 2008 draft.
Taking a stab at it, here is my list consisting of those currently (or soon to be) in the minors:
1. Alvarez
2. A. McCutchen
3. J. Tabata
4. Morris
5. Ohlendorf
6. D. McCutchen
7. B. Lincoln
8. Grossman
9. Meek
10. Pick one (Cunningham, D’Arnaud, Farrell, Freeman, Hague, Mercer, Miller, Romak, Walker)
by ElliottBayBucco on Aug 16, 2008 2:39 PM EDT reply actions
Shocked
I’m really shocked and surprised by how much the Pirates organization has improved at the lower level since the start of the NH regime. Pleasantly shocked and surprised obviously. I’ve never seen most of these lads play so I’m going off the opinions of others and analysis I’ve read. Here we go:
1) Alvarez
2) Tabata
3) A. McCutchen
4) Morris
5) D. McCutchen
6) Walker
7) Lincoln
8) Grossman
9) Ohlendorf
10) Cunningham
This will obviously change over the next few months/years when we really learn how these guys can play.
I made most of my life decisions at a Foghat concert... I stand by them.
by Chester J Lampwick on Aug 16, 2008 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
My $.02
1. Alvarez
2. A. McCutchen
3. Tabata
4. Morris
5. Lincoln
6. Ohlendorf
7. D. McCutchen
8. Walker
9. Moskos
10. Grossman
Here's mine
1…Pedro Alvarez
2…Andrew McCutchen
3…Jose Tabata
4…Bryan Morris
5…Dan McCutchen
6…Robbie Grossman
7…Jim Negrych
8…Brad Lincoln
9…Jamie Romak
10…Matt Hague
IMO, Moskos is terrible. He can not even pitch in relief without giving up runs in single-A. He is turning into a HUGE flop. Also, Neil Walker is not on my list because: A) he just does not seem to fit into our plans whatsoever, and B) he is having an abismal season.
I'm gonna say
1. Alvarez
2. A. McCutchen
3. Morris
4. Tabata
5. Grossman
6. Lincoln
7. Mercer
8. D. McCutchen
9. Ohlendorf
10. Jarek Cunningham
Whats everyone think?
My guess
1. A. McCutchen
2. Alvarez
3. Tabata
4. Morris
5. Lincoln
6. D. McCutchen
7. Walker
8. Ohlendorf
9. Grossman
10. Romak
Walker getting no respect
Other than batting average the guy is putting up pretty good numbers. .236BA 15HR 70RBI 62R 5SB. Its his 1st yr in AAA, and if he was hitting 250 everyone would have alot different opinion.
In what way are those other stats adequate?
I hope you aren’t saying that his RBI/R are a good way of measuring his minor league performance. Or are you more impressed with his 5 SB? I assure you that if Walker was batting .250, but the rest of his numbers were same, we would still be saying this year has been a disaster for him. His OBP is .273!
by wickethewok on Aug 17, 2008 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
He's also been caught stealing 6 times, so those 5 SB are pretty worthless.
However, he is only 22 so we shouldn’t give up on him yet. He’s not having a very good year this year offensivley, but I read in the paper that BA just named him the IL’s best defensive third baseman. If he can turn it around at the plate, he still has potential to be an impact player for us at the major league level.
Wow
Maybe people who have followed Indianapolis closely realized he had performed that well, but I sure didn’t. I had read that he was athletic enough and showed excellent progress, but still booted too many balls. It is pretty encouraging that he has gotten that good with the glove.
OK
If you go by BA’s rules (ROY eligibility), I don’t think Ohlendorf will qualify at year’s end. I think for pitchers the limit is 50 IP, and he’s at 46 now and supposed to come up soon. So . . .
1. Alvarez
2. A.McCutchen
3. Tabata
4. Morris
5. Walker
6. Lincoln
7. Barthmaier
8. D.McCutchen
9. Ford
10. Jeff Sues
Others: Bixler, Friday, Romak, Negrych, Meek, Hague, Miller, D’Arnaud, Cunningham, Pereira
I'm curious
Why didn’t Grossman make your cut at all?
Yeah, I doubt Ohlendorf will qualify ... my 10
1.) Alvarez
2.) A. McCutchen
3.) Tabata
4.) Lincoln
5.) Walker
6.) Morris
7.) D. McCutchen
8.) Grossman
9.) Romak
10.) Ford
Top 10
1. Tabata
2. Alvarez
3. A. McCutchen
4. Ohlendorf
5. Lincoln
6. Morris
7. D. McCutchen
8. Bixler
9. Walker
10.Meek
TOP 10
1. Alvarez
2. Tabata
3. A. McCutchen
4. Lincoln
5. N. Walker
6. Morris
7. D. McCutchen
8. Grossman
9. Miller
10. Freeman
Honorable Mention: Bixler, D`Arnaud, Hague, Meek, Romak
I imagine there's some way
to assign scores and calculate a consensus from this.
I see nobody shares my interest in Barthmaier and Sues.
I like both Barthmaier and Sues...
… but they both obviously have a lot to prove. Barthmaier was really, really bad in 2007. Being waived by the Astros has to diminish his prospect status. Sues has been very good, but he’s 25 in AA, has serious injury history, is walking too many, and pitches in relief.
The Astros management is now about as bad as Littlefield was,
so you can’t say he isn’t good because they waived him. The BA article that awarded Cutch with “Most Exciting IL Player” and Neil Walker with “Best Defensive IL 3rd Baseman” also awarded Barthmaier with “Best Breaking Ball in the IL.” Also, while Barthmaier got shelled in his only start in the majors, he’s been quite good at AAA this year and is only 24 years old.
I don’t know much about Sues except for his stats; but a 25 yr old reliever in AA, even if he is having a decent season, doesn’t seem like a top 10 prospect to me.
Sues is 25
because he’s been hurt ever since he was drafted. I don’t think age/level plays nearly the same role with pitchers as with hitters, anyway.
Sues has very good stuff, FB that edges into the upper 90s at times and a good breaking ball, and considering he basically missed three years his command isn’t bad. I’ve seen him several times this year and he’s not one of these throwers, like Belisario and Bresnehan, who have no clue where it’s going. He’s doing well in AA considering that he came into the year with little pro experience to speak of.
Barthmaier was considered a very good prospect going into last year and, for some reason, had a horrific season. He’s clearly bounced back from that. As far as I know, being put on waivers doesn’t have some nasty mojo that sucks away talent. Bronson Arroyo and Duaner Sanchez would certainly agree with me.
WTM-your 40 man thoughts
You posted last week your thoughts on the upcoming decisions about the 40 man for the winter. I can’t find it, but was wondering why Neil Walker was on it. Isn’t this only his 3rd season or was it because of his age at the time he was drafted? There was also a pitcher in A ball you mentioned, drafted from Latin America IIRC. I know there are some special rules for all this, but I thought it was generally seven years if not protected. How do you feel about Evan Meek—-he’d be exposed again to the Rule 5 draft if not protected, wouldn’t he?
Thanks for any info, from you or anyone else who is more qualified than I obviously am.
Walker is eligible
This is his fifth season, 2004-08. He has to be protected. A.McCutchen doesn’t and I think that’s why he won’t come up this Sept. If he was doing real well I bet he would, but they probably don’t want to add one more roster move.
The A ball pitcher was probably Ronald Uviedo, who’s done well at Hickory and recently got promoted to Lynchburg and has done well there. He has the kind of power arm the new guys like. The Pirates signed him when Seattle released him after two years in the VSL. I’m pretty sure DSL and VSL seasons count and this is #5 for him total, so I think he’s eligible. I’ll be surprised if he isn’t added, assuming I’m right.
Meek no doubt will be added. He’s doing well in AAA. Remember how bad his control was in the majors? I was surprised to see he’s walked only 11 in 50.2 IP in the minors. I’d like to see him come up in Sept., since he has to be added anyway.
Tabata
Has to be above McCutchen and Ohlendorf has to be on that list
I am not posting a top 10
because I really don’t know much about most of these guys. I did want to say, though, that I am surprised to see a lot of people ranking Tabata ahead of McCutchen. He is younger and maybe has more power projection, but other than that Cutch seems like much more of a sure thing to be a good MLB regular.
Upside
I put Tabata above him just because of the potential that Tabata has. But I agree that McCutchen will be a good MLB regular while Tabata might end up being a spectacular dud.
I made most of my life decisions at a Foghat concert... I stand by them.
by Chester J Lampwick on Aug 17, 2008 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
so here it is....
the awesomely calculated Consensus Top 10 according to BD commenters:
1. Pedro Alvarez
2. Andrew McCutchen
3. Jose Tabata
4. Bryan Morris
5. Brad Lincoln
6. Daniel McCutchen
7 Neil Walker
8 Robby Grossman
9. Jamie Romak
10 Ross Ohlendorf
Others recieving votes: Ford, Freeman, Miller, Cunningham, D’Arnaud, Barthmaier, Mercer, Meek
Good list
I think it speaks volumes to realize six of the 10 weren’t Pirates just six weeks ago. It’s also pretty amazing that we need “others receiving votes.” I think I could have made that portion prior to the trades and draft.
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