It's a Transformation

by Charlie on Aug 6, 2008 11:45 PM EDT

It's been less than a year, but by my count, there are eighteen guys on the 40-man roster who weren't with the organization since Neal Huntington and Frank Coonelly took over.

Here they are:

Jimmy Barthmaier
Denny Bautista
T.J. Beam
Jason Davis
Phil Dumatrait
Craig Hansen
Jeff Karstens
Ross Ohlendorf
Marino Salas
Ty Taubenheim
Tyler Yates
Raul Chavez
Chris Gomez
Andy LaRoche
Doug Mientkiewicz
Luis Rivas
Jason Michaels
Brandon Moss

Here are the players who have held over:

Ronald Belisario
Sean Burnett
Matt Capps
Dave Davidson
Zach Duke
Tom Gorzelanny
John Grabow
Yoslan Herrera
Paul Maholm
Romulo Sanchez
Ian Snell
John Van Benschoten
Ryan Doumit
Ronny Paulino
Jose Bautista
Brian Bixler
Adam LaRoche
Freddy Sanchez
Jack Wilson
Nate McLouth
Nyjer Morgan
Steve Pearce

I don't have some grand point here; I mostly just want to make a record of the 40-man roster right now to look back at in a year to see whether this amount of player movement continues.

I think it will. There is still a huge number of players on both lists who are basically useless--Belisario, Davis, Taubenheim, Van Benschoten, Herrera, Rivas, Morgan, and probably Davidson, Paulino, Bixler and Burnett as well. My guess is that Huntington will be very active this offseason in finding replacements for many of these players, both in signing players to minor-league deals and acquiring cheap free agents. For example, the Pirates pursued Chad Durbin last offseason but didn't sign him, and now he's posting a 1.77 ERA for the Phillies. The Pirates tried a similar signing with Byung-Hyun Kim that didn't work, but I still bet they're more aggressive with the Durbins of the world in the coming offseason.

Also, the Bucs may trade more veterans, such as Grabow and Wilson, in the offseason, and these trades may be similar to the Nady-Marte deal--they'll look for upside, but they'll also look for quantity, because this season has shown that the Pirates lack depth in a big way. So in a Wilson deal, they might target a young shortstop and a couple more pitchers who are nearly ready. (This is all speculation, by the way.)

The result of all this could is that by this time next year, or even by April, the 40-man roster could be very, very different from the way it looked when Dave Littlefield was fired, with as few as a dozen players remaining.

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I agree

I think by the start of next season, you will not even recognize the 40 man roster compared to when Littlefield left other than a few names. Hopefully some of the young players we have traded for will reach there full potential. If they do we might finally see some light at the end of the tunnel.

My question is, why didn’t Taubenheim get another shot to pitch. He had a great outing against the Rays then never got another shot but Herrera kept getting start after start and was awful in all of them, other than one. I just don’t understand it. I know Taubenheim isn’t Greg Maddux but I’m pretty confident he is better than Herrera/

by thielcats on Aug 7, 2008 8:48 AM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Taubenheim

His outing listening to it, wasn’t that great, but he did keep the buccos in the game. He struggled at times and got himself out of a jam against a team that doesn’t really score that much but has great pitching. Against better offensive teams(Cubs, Brewers) he might not have gotten out unscathed.

An yes he had some shoulder stiff as the poster below said which has kept him from coming back up to the bigs for another shot at starting.

by lfhlaw on Aug 7, 2008 12:06 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Taubenheim has mostly been on the disabled list since that start.

by Arnold Rothstein on Aug 7, 2008 9:22 AM EDT reply reply 0 recs

I don’t think Wilson is going anywhere. No one is going to offer enough for him to make him worth trading.

Not that that’s a bad thing.

by PhillyJake on Aug 7, 2008 9:39 AM EDT reply reply 0 recs

To move Wilson

It would take an Excellent Trade with either a AAA/AA Shortstop ready to take the next step or an average shortstop and some decent prospects. another 1 for 3-4 player type deal which i don’t see happening unless a team out there definitely needs a shortstop to shore up their defense.

Jack Wilson
1. Doesn’t hit for much power
2. Is an Excellent Shortstop with good range
3. Stays Healthy (rarely has been on DL except for this year)
4. Has a fairly decent BA

I myself prefer to keep him, because when he was injured you saw the lack of depth at SS really hurt us defensively. But if the right trade came along to infuse some good talent I think NH has got to make the move.

So Far most of his moves have been sound and productive.

by lfhlaw on Aug 7, 2008 12:11 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

I honestly think

that it doesn’t matter if we get a SS or not for Wilson. Going with the current philosophy, we just need to get a return of the best talent, period, regardless of position. Depth, depth, depth.

.500 or bust...

by phillybucco on Aug 7, 2008 1:00 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

And I see

you already addressed that :P

Sorry, I no reed gud.

.500 or bust...

by phillybucco on Aug 7, 2008 1:01 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

It Better Be A Lot Different!

by thegunner on Aug 7, 2008 10:56 AM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Has to be different

To start with, here are some guys who are eligible for the Rule 5 draft and thus have to go on the 40-man:

Neil Walker
Jason Delaney
Jamie Romak
James Boone
Brad Corley
Jeff Sues
Steve Lerud
Jesse Chavez
Juan Perez
Eric Krebs
Ronald Uviedo

Some, maybe most, of those guys I wouldn’t add, but I’d definitely add Walker, Romak, and Sues, and possibly Krebs or Uviedo. Plus, the two McCutchens have to be added if they’re going to be called up in Sept. (My guess is Andrew will be and Daniel won’t.)

by WTM on Aug 7, 2008 11:13 AM EDT reply reply 0 recs

What is the Pirates current 40-man roster?

by lfhlaw on Aug 7, 2008 12:12 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

The post above contains all the names on it.

by Charlie on Aug 7, 2008 1:00 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Rule V roster projection

WTM, what is your projection of what will happen to the roster to prepare for the Rule V draft? Who might be removed from the 40-man?

by Alleghenys on Aug 7, 2008 12:18 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Guys I think are in jeopardy

Belisario
Davidson
Salas
Taubenheim
Chavez
Herrera
Morgan
Van Benschoten

Most of these guys I think they’ll probably try to hang onto into spring training. The most likely to be simply removed are the first three. They may try to slip VB through like they tried with Bullington. I think Chavez is almost certain to be removed, but only if he’ll agree in advance to sign a minor league deal with a spring training invite. That effectively lets them put off making a roster decision with him. I could see them trying something like that with Beam, too.

Some guys, of course, will be gone as free agents, which will open up spots. Gomez is gone for sure. They’ll try to re-sign Mientkiewicz, but I’m guessing they won’t be able to, which is too bad. I hope they’ll have the sense not to try to re-sign Rivas, but I’m afraid they will because of health concerns with Sanchez. They may try to get Michaels to agree to an extension for less money than his 2009 option or they may exercise the option. They may try to move Yates, seeing as how he sucks.

by WTM on Aug 7, 2008 10:28 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

How many of those on the 40 man roster

are free agents at the end of the season? I know Mientkiewicz is and possibly Rivas and Gomez. I think Jason Michaels has an option year the PBC can pick up.

by ElliottBayBucco on Aug 7, 2008 1:13 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs