Ohlendorf Throws 99mph; Otherwise Unimpressive
I watched Ross Ohlendorf lose to the Rochester Red Wings tonight and left intrigued, and hopeful, but not really impressed. He threw serious gas, and wasn't wild, but he was pretty hittable. It's esoteric and unprovable, but he looked, well, like he didn't know how to pitch. Thrower, not a pitcher, that kind of look.
He threw 22 pitches in the first inning, 11 strikes, 11 balls, only one swing and miss. But he was just getting warmed up. I missed two of the velocities in the inning, but watching the pitches I can confidently say he didn't throw anything offspeed until the 14th pitch of the inning. All the fastballs wouldn't be so bad, except he wasn't commanding it, and later showed a pretty good breaking ball, getting a bunch of swings and misses in the 2nd and 3rd innings. His fastball went from 92 (once) to 96mph. He gave up a bouncer up the middle for a single, and a sharp grounder to LF for a single. After picking the runner off 2B, Garrett Jones smoked Ohly's first pitch, a 96mph fastball, toward first. It broke Mike Cuddyer's foot.
In the 2nd inning Ohlendorf started really letting it fly, but that might not have been so smart. Again I had him down for only two offspeed pitches out of 21 total. His fastball went from 93 (once) to 99. But check this sequence to 22 year-old Trevor Plouffe, the Twins' 1st round pick in 2004:
98 (ball), 96 (strike), 99 (strike), 97 (ball), 94 (foul), 96--double to the gap. It looked to me like Plouffe had him timed. He was just behind the next to last pitch, and was pretty clearly sitting dead red on the last, Plouffe drilled it.
Ohlendorf gave up a single because Nyjer Morgan and Andrew McCutchen didn't communicate and let the ball drop between them when it looked like either could have taken it. He ended the inning by (finally) throwing an 84mph curve to get Jason Pridie swinging.
Ohlendorf retired the side in the 3rd on 13 pitches, 10 strikes. Like a message from the baseball Gods, six of the pitches were offspeed, and three of those were swings and misses. One was a called strike, and the other two were put in play for a soft fly to left and a routine 4-3 grounder. He dialed the fastball back down to 93-94 most of the inning, only once hitting 96.
In the 4th, he gave up two hits and got two strikeouts. But again, it was his offspeed stuff that got batters out. I had him for seven offspeed pitches in the inning, four of them called strikes, and another one swinging for a K. He clearly can throw it for strikes. Again, the fastball sat at 93-94 most of the inning, once hitting 97. But again Plouffe doubled, and again it was drilled like he knew it was coming. This one was only 93 so he had no trouble catching up to it. And why wouldn't he? Plouffe saw 9 pitches his first two AB, all fastballs.
Ohlendorf appeared to be tiring in the 5th, with his fastball sitting 91-92, and he threw mostly breaking balls. He got into trouble with two singles to lead off the inning, but again was bailed out by bad baseball by the Wings. By the way, one single was possibly because Mr. Excitement slipped to the ground and had to then let the ball drop in front of him. It was a liner, but he lost all chance to make the play by spinning his wing tips out of the blocks. With runners on 1st and 2nd, Serge Santos bunted the first pitch into the air in foul ground on the 3rd base side. Neil Walker made a spectacular lay-out dive for the putout (seriously great play), and he easily doubled the runner off first who had gone all the way to second for some reason. Garrett Jones then saw all offspeed--four pitches--but finally figured that out and lined a hard single to right to score a run. He inexplicably went to 2nd on the throw, which was low and right to the cutoff man who wasn't more than 15 feet from first base. A brief rundown and suddenly Ohlendorf was out of the inning in 11 pitches. He really only retired only one batter in the inning.
In the 6th, I... well, look, I was at the game with two eight year-olds and a five year-old, and I needed a beer. And the only decent beer at Frontier Field is Brooklyn Pennant, but you can only get it at the bar at the end of the LF stands. We started out completely opposite that and I was lucky to see the inning as I strolled the walkway between the upper and lower stands on the way back to the RF knoll. He was still throwing 93-94, and the inning ended with a drive to RCF that Matt Kata barely ran down at the wall, hit by, guess who? Trevor Plouffe.
Evan Meek looked pretty good (but...) in the 7th and 8th. 23 of 31 pitches were strikes, and his fastball sat mostly at 93-95 in the 7th, and 94-96 in the 8th, once also hitting 99. But that was the weird thing about Meek when he was with Pittsburgh -- his fastball varied in speed a lot. It would be nice if I thought he was doing it intentionally, or was mixing in a cutter, but the complete inconsistency in velocity makes me think he's just got mechanical issues still to work out. Even here, he threw 89, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, and 99. Nine different speeds in 25 fastballs. And it wasn't something where he was just building up the velocity as he hit six of those speeds in his last 11 pitches. He threw well though, he was behind only one batter and threw a pretty good breaking ball in the 78-82mph range. Five of six offspeed pitches were strikes. The only hit he gave up was a single that Garrett Jones was very late on but grounded it just fair inside 3B.
I'm hoping to go to at least two of the final three games, so I'm reluctant to say any more than this about McCutchen -- he didn't see more than a couple fastballs, and looked bad swinging over breaking balls, twice for Ks.
Walker didn't look lost or anything, but didn't seem very confident either. Again, I want to get a few more looks.
Edit: I can't believe I forgot to note the Mr. Excitement hit the first pitch of the game just over the rail near the foul pole in RF for his first HR at any level this year. In the Olympic spirit I think it shouldn't count because it was wind-aided.
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19 comments
Comments
that sounds
an awful lot like a guy that the coaches told “look, ross, we know you have a hard fastball, but you need to get it under control. so we want you throwing majority fastballs until we feel you’re getting it reasonably under control, then start mixing in the rest of your pitches.”
and, well duh, if you’re throwing nothing but fastballs, any above average hitter will eventually time up and whack something.
the fact that he did eventually start mixing in his other stuff is good.
this also sounds like a guy who needs to be taught the same thing as ollie. unless you’re a reliever who only has two pitches, there is absolutely no way you need to be throwing 97+, especially since you start to lose your control then (and also since you’ll never make it late into games that way).
sounds like he can be at least a useful back of the rotation guy if he can a) keep his stuff down and b) learn that you don’t accomplish more by throwing harder.
by geeves on Aug 9, 2008 6:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What geeves said. Sort of.
It sounds kind of like the Pirates wanted him throwing nothing but fastballs. My thought, though, was that it’s part of the “stretching him out from being a reliever” program.
by matskralc on Aug 9, 2008 9:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ohlendorf......
Sounds like potential closer material,possibly more than a starter. And I would say to geeves,ask old guys like Bob Gibson,Jim Maloney,Sam McDowell,etc. how hard they were throwing late in games….....
by rissaldar on Aug 9, 2008 3:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is completely off-topic
but this Cubs/Cards game is a freakin’ home run derby!
Welp...
by phillybucco on Aug 9, 2008 4:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Isn't that also
a pitcher’s strategy, to set up the hitters? First three-four guys go back to the dugout and say “He’s throwing nothing but gas.” Next three-four guys go up looking for heat and look silly flailing at off-speed. Just sayin.
Wonder if the Twins would like any of our extraneous bullpen arms for the stretch run for Trevor Plouffe. Which ones are extraneous? All of them.
by bucdaddy on Aug 9, 2008 5:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wait ...
I realize it was more like he threw gas all the way through the lineup the first time, but the same principle applies. Now you have them all looking for heat and … surprise!
by bucdaddy on Aug 9, 2008 5:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Al McGuire always said "You can't teach heigth"
and I don’t think you can teach someone to throw 96-99 mph, you either can or you can’t. That said, it sounds as if he might have the tools to become a “pitcher” instead of a “thrower” and quite frankly, I’m optimistic. For a pitcher to be successful he must be able to adjust his speed and location in order to keep the hitter off balance and prevent them from digging in and waiting for a fast ball down the middle of the plate. Maybe this guy can be taught how to pitch. That’s better than paying Morris $10 million to throw an 83 mph fastball, or insisting on playing Duffy ahead of McLouth or Paulino ahead of Doumit. At least I have some hope.
by Illinois Pirate Fan on Aug 9, 2008 6:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
That’s what I was trying to say. He seemed like a thrower in that he seemed to be in love with his fastball at some points, and it seemed odd because he was throwing his breaking ball for called and swinging strikes (see, Patthatt?). There’s definitely talent there. I’m a little worried the fastball might be fast, but flat, but I couldn’t say that because from where I sat I didn’t actually see that.
I also meant to mention, he’s a tall, skinny guy with a slow, kind of long windup. Sometimes, like with Randy Johnson (who I’m NOT comparing him too), take some extra time to command their bodies before they can really command their pitches. Johnson didn’t seem to really “figure it out” until he was 29. BBref says Ohlendorf is 6’4” but he looked taller, maybe because he was pretty thin.
by azibuck on Aug 10, 2008 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is all well and good . . .
But, WHO is going to coach him up? Is he even coachable? I tend to think the Yanks likely tried.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
by SubLime on Aug 9, 2008 6:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Incidentally
Cuddyer broke his foot on the play mentioned in the recap. He’s out for the year.
by Vlad on Aug 9, 2008 9:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
azibuck
You were unimpressed-to put it mildly-with the return for Bay/Marte from the beginning, so why should we expect you to write anything really positive about Ohlendorf this time?
Hasn`t it already been pointed out that Ohlendorf probably profiles best down the road as a reliever? One way or the other, I`d say we got a guy with a pretty good arm, and let`s focus more on the “hopeful” points with him, Karstens, and Daniel McCutchen.(Also, so far, so good with Tabata and his physical condition and attitude from all reports I`ve read.)
Incidentally, sounds like the stadium gun was jacked up a couple of MPH.
by patthatt on Aug 9, 2008 10:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Were you always this negative?
I don’t mean that to be confrontational, just seems like everybody’s been setting you off lately, when I used to just know you as the guy in Japan with the informative commentary.
I was unimpressed with the return, that’s true, but I don’t recall bashing that trade. I said I liked the first iteration with Coke and Kontos better, that Karstens and Ohlendorf were just guys, and that I didn’t see what others seem to see in DMcCutchen.
You should expect me to write anything really positive because… well, I’m not in 7th grade. I don’t need to be right. Why would I find things just to support an argument I made weeks ago? And for that matter, Ohlendorf just gave up 11 hits in six innings to a AAA team. What should I have written? I wrote the headline, and I wrote it like that because I’m negative and pithy by nature, but I can count more than a couple positives I wrote. I said I was intrigued and hopeful. Throwing 99 is (fucking) impressive. I’ve never not enjoyed watching someone throw 99. The crowd was even oohing and ahhing a little, in my section anyway. My son was impressed with how loud Maldonado’s mitt popped from row E in section 207. But 11 hits and 5 Ks? Not really “impressive”. Not crappy. Not, “see, he’s just a guy”. Just not impressive.
I’ve written diaries/fanposts each of the last three years when Indy comes through Rochester. I almost stated it again, but in most of the others I note that I’ve found the Frontier Field gun extremely fair, if not slightly low. Duke, Gorzo, Bayliss, Sharpless to name a few, have backed up the readings I saw at Frontier when I saw them on TV for the Pirates. Just for one example, Francisco Liriano was supposedly throwing 93-94 down here this year. I saw his last start before being called up and he topped out at 91.
Finally, I don’t care what anybody “profiles as” with these. I went to the game, I saw, I’m reporting.
by azibuck on Aug 10, 2008 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
azibuck
“I was unimpressed with the return, that’s true, but I don’t recall bashing that trade. I said I liked the first iteration with Coke and Kontos better, that Karstens and Ohlendorf were just guys, and that I didn’t see what others seem to see in DMcCutchen.”
I just finished re-reading your posts related to the trade and, while you didn`t “bash” the re-worked deal, you certainly didn`t have anything good to say about it. As a matter of fact, I think you were one of the most negative posters on this board about the whole thing during the last week of July.
This was the impression in my mind when I posted earlier, which made me wonder if you could be fair in your assessment of Ohlendorf. To your credit, it really doesn`t sound like Ohlendorf was all that impressive this time out, so I guess your headline is right on the money.
As far as your point about me being too confrontational recently goes, you know, I think you`re right and will take that as a little constructive criticism and try to chill out.
I guess I`ve been too worked up about everything related to the Bucs the past couple months because I see this time-the trades, the draft, and the Latin America signings-as absolutely critical to building a base for the team to have any success in the coming years, and I doubt that success will start in 2009. If the people running things now do the wrong things, and/or the Nuttings don`t allow them to do the things they need to do, and if the losing streak stretches to 20 years, then there won`t be any reason to be a Pirates` fan for me. Sorry for the ramble.
by patthatt on Aug 10, 2008 7:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Cool
I hadn’t posted that much recently because I was getting on some people myself, not tolerating some things.
One last thing about these though, and I’m about to go see Gorz, and I think McCutchen goes tomorrow, is that I know these are one-offs. I was really impressed by Bayliss, but I think I actually only saw 1 and 1/3 innings that game! Guys have off nights. Guys are hungover. I really don’t say much, usually, about the hitters, because even in a 3-4 game series it’s hard to make a judgment unless you see the same thing over and over, like fishing for breaking balls in the dirt.
Short series are actually how I started liking Duffy, and not so much McLouth back in, I think 2005. Duffy at the time looked confident, he looked like, well, a ballplayer. McLouth on the other hand had one of the thinnest-looking frames (esp. at the hips) that I’d seen playing AAA baseball. I was always dubious after that when Charlie would make the argument that his doubles could turn into homers. Obviously, my eyeball-scouting wasn’t so great, but I sure wasn’t going to stay married to those impressions based on a couple games in Rochester.
by azibuck on Aug 10, 2008 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and
The point was, partially, that living in NY I watch the Yankees 2nd most to the Pirates, and in very brief looks, my impression of Karstens and Ohly were negative. But in my defense, they just weren’t that good for NYY. And considering their ages, they didn’t seem to have much ceiling left. But with Ohly for sure, I’ll gladly give him some time to prove me wrong with the stuff I saw.
by azibuck on Aug 10, 2008 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
glad to know there is another Pirates fan here in Rochester. I had intended to go to a couple of the Indy games, but plans changed and i missed them. lousy friends having a baby.
anyway, glad to hear that someone sees a little potential in this cat.
by Blyleven Curve Ball on Aug 11, 2008 9:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Who calls the game?
Azibuck,
I haven’t seen any minor league baseball, but I’d guess that, like the majors, the catcher or manager would likely be the one determining what pitches a pitcher will hurl. Was Ohly shaking off everything but the heat in the first few innings? If it’s the catcher/manager making the call, perhaps the stretching out his arm case makes more sense.
by BuccoFanByTheBay on Aug 11, 2008 3:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, don't know
He worked at a good pace. Not fast, but he’d take the ball, toe the rubber and throw for the most part. I didn’t really watch for it.
by azibuck on Aug 11, 2008 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the response
I’ll give him the benefit of a doubt on the pitch selection. It’s nice to know he has the other pitches; hopefully when it counts, he’ll be able to mix it up effectively.
by BuccoFanByTheBay on Aug 11, 2008 8:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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