Frank Coonelly Discusses State College
Here's a good interview with Frank Coonelly in State College's Centre Daily Times. The interviewer's main concerns, for obvious reasons, are the minor league system in general and the State College Spikes in particular, so Coonelly gets pretty specific about some of the issues the Pirates have faced this year in stocking their minor league affiliates.
The Spikes’ .231 winning percentage is the organization’s worst.
“We’re not happy about it at all,” Coonelly said. “It has been very disappointing. But we understand why it is what it is. It’s just the way our draft went. We didn’t draft in the higher rounds particularly many pitchers. In terms of the position players that we had, we had several positions where we selected multiple players. Hopefully we don’t have a situation like this again.”
About six weeks ago I said almost exactly the same thing about pitchers. Since I wrote that, the Bucs signed fifth rounder Justin Wilson and above-slot draftee Quinton Miller, but it was too late for them to help the Spikes this year. (And Miller probably would've been assigned to Bradenton anyway.)
The biggest problem with the pitching at State College--and Coonelly doesn't say this, for obvious reasons--was that nearly every pitcher left over from the Dave Littlefield regime was just wretched. Among Littlefield acquisitions, only Kyle MacPherson and Yoffri Martinez really got it done, and even those two weren't great. Drafting more pitchers would have helped, but it's not as if the Pirates didn't need hitting help also, and there probably would have been a trainwreck at State College no matter what, since Littlefield didn't leave many hitters for the Pirates to work with, either.
On the hitting side, Coonelly claims that the Pirates were hamstrung by taking lots of hitters in the draft who played the same position. That's true, but it only explains part of the problem. Third-rounder Jordy Mercer and fourth-rounder Chase D'Arnaud both played shortstop, and ninth-rounder Matt Hague and 34th-rounder Matthew Payne both played third base. In addition, the Bucs had eighth-rounder Jeremy Farrell to play third a little bit (he played first, too). So the Pirates bumped Mercer and Hague up to Hickory, which probably helped all five players' development but hurt State College. Also, the Spikes lost their best hitter, '08 draftee Cole White, when it turned out he had to return to the Army after playing his college ball there.
On the whole, the Huntington draftees in State College's lineup were okay. Not great, but okay. Again, they got absolutely nothing from Littlefield's acquisitions. The best Littlefield-era hitter was Andy Vasquez, who posted a .697 OPS.
It is not really reasonable to have expected Coonelly and Huntington to make State College a good baseball team when they only really had the draft to help them accomplish that goal. Sure, many State College players were acquired in the draft, but for the most part, these players weren't huge parts of the problem. The problem was all the holdover players the Pirates had to use to fill in the gaps. These players were almost all terrible.
In short, the problems at State College don't really say anything about the new Pirates management's ability to draft and develop players. Most of the blame for the Spikes' poor season lies with Littlefield, who left a ticking time bomb for his successor to deal with, and with the new management's decisions to be more aggressive in promoting players, find playing time for the most promising ones and get players to age-appropriate levels. Don't worry about State College; it doesn't mean a whole lot, and it probably isn't going to happen again next year.
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21 comments
Comments
‘who left a ticking time bomb for his predecessor to deal with’
successor. for what it’s worth.
by Blyleven Curve Ball on Sep 2, 2008 5:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good thing, too. Cam Bonifay is just about the last person I’d turn to in a crisis.
Thanks for the catch.
by Charlie on Sep 2, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Charlie
Stuff like this is why you’re my first stop for Pirates news every day after I visit the PG. Actually, I often just scan the headlines at the PG and then come here for you to boil it down and tell me what it means in a few graphs. The depth of your knowledge and interest in the team and the logic of your reasoning and commentary are, IMHO, impressive. And I’m not just saying that so’s you’ll put me on the pass list next time you’re in town.
by bucdaddy on Sep 2, 2008 6:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Now see, when you say stuff like that my paranoid side suspects you’re actually making fun of me. :)
Anyway, thanks.
by Charlie on Sep 2, 2008 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I can see why
but I can say ditto to what bucdaddy wrote except the part about going to the PG first. I come directly here.
by WestCoastBuc on Sep 2, 2008 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hitters
If they hadn’t had too many infielders, Mercer probably wouldn’t have been promoted and Hague may have stayed at SC a little longer. Turned out Mercer wasn’t ready for the SAL.
Getting more out of Latin America will help a lot. DL did such a bad job there that they got few players who could even get past the GCL. The only Latin American pitchers they had this year at SC were Martinez, who’s not a prospect; Wilson Ortiz, who was an overage pitcher in the VSL last year; Ramon Aguero, who looked like one when he was going by Samuel Vasquez but who turned out to be 4 years older than listed; and Emilis Guerrero, who washed out of the Red Sox’ system and was probably signed just to add a body as much as anything; and Carlos Amaro, who was last year’s version of Guerrero after flopping with the Marlins. If you can’t find good numbers of players, especially pitchers, who have enough ability to get past the bottom rung of the system, you’re not going to end up with prospects. Quantity matters.
by WTM on Sep 2, 2008 6:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh, that’s what happened to Samuel Vasquez. Too bad.
by Charlie on Sep 2, 2008 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
State College
Charlie – you do provide a great service for us all.
I must slightly disagree with you about State College though. They don’t start their season until mid to late June, so they should have an opportunity to plan ahead and know what they need to field a competitive team. After all, regular spring training ends March 31 which gives them two and a half months to plan a roster and evaluate their needs.
When Jim Tracy’s 24 year old, one year out of college son is your pitching coach (even if the prior coach quit or was dismissed), this is not a way to develop young pitchers.
A creative, innovative organization will find a way to sign players who can play. That is why there are independent leagues, and I am sure that you and many of our fellow bloggers must realize that Chris Coste, the Phillies’ catcher, came from an independent league team in the Dakotas. Coste has been a very serviceable, fine defensive catcher who is now in his mid-30’s.
I will not accept Coonelly’s alibi. The poor performance at State College falls right back on the front office.
by thegunner on Sep 2, 2008 8:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Chris Coste
Wouldn’t have signed with a rookie ball team. And we would’ve been laughingstocks if we’d even asked.
by Vlad on Sep 3, 2008 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fielding a competitive team
is not the point of minor league affiliates.
A well run team will sign players who can play, but you don’t do right before the start of the NY-P League season. You do it several years before that when you’re signing Dominican teenagers or drafting high school players. Guys like Coste are found once every few years. There simply isn’t an endless supply of players like that out there, otherwise teams would be signing them all the time. They aren’t.
Of course, the alternative is to do what DL did and sign non-prospects just to bolster the rosters. Personally, I’d just as soon not follow DL’s strategies.
by WTM on Sep 2, 2008 8:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I Said A Competitive Team ... Not A Winning Team
WTM – when you field a team that wins one out of four games, that is not a competitive team. The players quickly get demoralized, learn very little, and it is a very bad way to operate.
by thegunner on Sep 2, 2008 9:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The players quickly get demoralized, learn very little, and it is a very bad way to operate.
People say that sort of thing a lot, but I’m not sure it’s true. Blue-chip prospects emerge from bad minor league teams all the time. One example I’ve seen float around Pirates blogs is the 1987 Gastonia Rangers, which featured Juan Gonzalez, Sammy Sosa, Dean Palmer, Rey Sanchez, Bill Haselman, Wilson Alvarez playing for a thoroughly dreadful team.
I’m sure the Spikes’ poor record is annoying for the residents of State College, but I don’t think it’s much more relevant than that. I see what you mean about independent league players but I’d much rather Coonelly and Huntington spent their time worrying about more important things.
by Charlie on Sep 2, 2008 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bottom line
Nobody fields a .200 team on purpose, but the focus always needs to be on acquiring and developing prospects. The problem they faced with SC was that there was no talent in the pipeline coming up from the GCL, so they were totally dependent on their draft. They could have drafted a bunch of low-ceiling college players instead of guys like Robbie Grossman and Quinton Miller, and they could have run out and signed a bunch of undrafted free agent non-prospects to fill out the rosters. They could have kept Matt Hague at SC to help the team win more games.
Personally, I’m happy to see them place the priority on getting real prospects into the system and moving them at the right time, even if they run the risk of a mess like this year’s SC team. I don’t want to see them sacrificing the development of talent for the future in order to shore up minor league W/L records. You may be happy with the way DL ran things, but I’m satisfied to see them abandon his strategies.
by WTM on Sep 2, 2008 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Happy with Littlefield??????
Please!!! Give me a break! Only McClatchy was satisfied with Littlefield and he had Nutting believing in him too until Nutting heard from enough people who finally straightened him out.
The object of running a minor league system is to find age-appropriate, TALENTED players to stock the minor league clubs.
If you figure that, with the two teams in Latin America plus the full and short-season minor league clubs, the Pirates have roughly 200 minor leaguers at any one time.
With most organizations, I am being very generous when I say that, at any given time, only 40 of them could be classified as prospects. That’s 20% of 200. Actually, 8-10% of minor leaguers ever make it to the major leagues and that may be generous.
The real skill is finding talented players and developing their skills. This requires great, innovative scouting and player development. It also requires the need to decide which players to concentrate on - identify the real prospects, concentrate on their development, and keep looking for new talent to introduce into the system to replace those that are never going to make it.
If you have the right people in place running the show, it’s not that hard.
by thegunner on Sep 3, 2008 1:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The right people
Exactly. And when you take over an organization that’s filled with the wrong people, it takes time to correct that. It takes several years to turn a dead system around, between replacing the scouts and coaches, and getting more talent moving through the pipeline. That’s why it’s absurd to lay all the problems at SC on current management.
by WTM on Sep 3, 2008 6:40 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We lost two management people at AAA
From all I’ve heard I thought Trent was well respected. Reading more into it than actually was reported, it sounded to me like he didn’t fit with current PBC management.
Is this the start to an offseason shake-up of the minors, scouting & all?
by ETNBuc on Sep 3, 2008 6:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Probably a major shakeup
And let’s not forget that Jim Tracy was touted in Pittsburgh as well respected and a great manager. Things aren’t always what they seem.
by WTM on Sep 3, 2008 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Touted By Whom?
Dave Littlefield, Kevin McClatchy and media flacks.
by thegunner on Sep 3, 2008 1:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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