Bucs, Pedro Alvarez Strike New Deal
It's a four-year, major-league deal worth $6.355 million, the Post-Gazette reports. It's pending a physical. The deal calls for a bonus of $6 million, just like before, except now it's paid over four years instead of two. Alvarez is also guaranteed about $87,000 for each year he spends in the minors, as well as salaries just above the league minimum for years he spends in the majors. He would have to be added to the Bucs' 40-man roster right away.
I have so many questions about this I'm not sure I can list them all, but the biggest one is this: why should this deal have any meaning? Both parties agree that the Pirates and Alvarez already had a deal; the only question is whether or not it was struck before midnight. Given that neither Alvarez nor the Pirates are officially involved in the grievance that's currently taking place, what power would either party have to strike a new deal over a month after the deadline? In any case, the Post-Gazette's sources indicate that this deal will probably not be affected by the grievance, so let's proceed...
Forget about the monetary value of the deal; Scott Boras will now be able to claim that his client got the top bonus in the draft, but as I see it, the money, at least in terms of the $6.355 million, is basically a wash. The real issue is that the Pirates would have a $1.63 million option for the fifth year, with Alvarez being able to void the option (the Pirates would retain his rights) if he's arbitration eligible. So the Pirates could end up paying a bit more than they would've for the fifth year, but only if Alvarez takes more than a year and a half to get through the minors (in which case he wouldn't be arbitration-eligible for that fifth year). Alvarez is pretty likely to be in the majors by mid-2010, so if everything goes as planned, that $1.63 million option shouldn't be an issue. (And the Pirates maintain his rights for six major-league years no matter how things turn out, so don't worry about Alvarez declaring free agency after that fifth year.)
Whew! That's a mouthful. But don't worry about it too much. What I'm sure Boras and Alvarez like most about this deal is that it's a major league contract, which starts the clock ticking on Alvarez's option years. However, the only way this matters much for the Pirates is if Alvarez is nowhere near as good as advertised, and he takes more than three years to stick in the big leagues. What this deal seems to do is insulate Alvarez somewhat if he turns out not to be very good. If he turns out to be good, and he probably will, the deal probably won't have much affect on the amount of money he would have gotten.
Assuming this deal is allowed to stick, the Pirates get an end to this whole mess. They look like they caved, and I suppose they did, but honestly it's worth it to have Alvarez in uniform, especially if they can get him into a fall or winter league. If this deal sticks, I'm just happy it's over and glad to have Alvarez in the fold. I'm sure the Pirates will get a ton of negative PR for this, but whatever. Alvarez is more important than some bad PR and I'm glad the Pirates are willing to absorb some of it in order to start the career of a potential franchise player.
I'm going home for the night, but I'll see if anything needs updated when I get in tomorrow. I'm sure there are some details that haven't come to light yet.
UPDATE: The Post-Gazette now reports that the "next step" toward finalizing this contract is getting Major League Baseball and the players' union to settle the grievance. They will work on that today.
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36 comments
Comments
Wow, an hour gone by already and still no comments, I guess I'm the only one still awake because I live on the west coast. Well, let me be the first one to say:
HOORAY!!!! WHOO HOO!!!!
FINALLY SOME GOOD NEWS!!!
I just started to seriously follow the Pirates again last year, when it was clear that Littlefield was on his way out, and I must say the last month of my life has been miserably depressing from a sports perspective – the major leaguers we received in the Nady/Bay deals haven’t done too well (even though I firmly believe it is WAY to early to evaluate those deals) and then Pedro refused to sign. The whole last month has been a huge kick in the nuts for Pirates fans. The Steelers were a ray of sunshine and then today’s game against Philly happened. Thank you for some good news Charlie.
Now let’s all hope that some how the grievance business doesn’t somehow still void all of this.
by houksyndrome on Sep 22, 2008 2:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Cool I guess
Seems to be about the same as the old deal, no better for the Pirates or worse. Glad that Pedro can get in there and play winter ball as soon as possible.
The thing that really confuses me is what Charlie first addresses: how this deal works with the other deal agreed upon? I’m sure details will be clarified once it reaches a decent hour but right now I’m left scratching my head.
I made most of my life decisions at a Foghat concert... I stand by them.
by Chester J Lampwick on Sep 22, 2008 3:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Well, if Alvarez tears up a winter league over the next few months, Lynchburg/Altoona next year, and Pittsburgh the year after, all of this drama will be a distant memory…
by shayborg on Sep 22, 2008 5:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My 2 cents
I am at once concerned that the Bucs caved on their "no more negotiations stance’ – which was the correct position to take – but at the same time pleased that they were not so rigid as to be blinded to a good option.
While I would suggest that Boras/Pedro “won” with the new deal, it is a slight victory and there appears to be no significant economic difference to the Pirates. In other words, the deal was more of a restructuring than a new deal. Nevertheless, it allows Boras to claim the largest signing bonus and a big league deal (which doesn’t seem to be such a big deal).
I suspect that MLB leaned on the Bucs to work something out. The key to the whole grievance was MLB’s unilaterally handing out signing deadline extensions. Since the contract kills the grievance, there presumably will not be a ruling on the issue – which I think was almost assured to kill MLB’s deadline extension practice, which it views as a valuable tool. Further, resolution of the Pedro contract and related grievance also resolves the Hosmer deal, again showing that it was savvy for the Pirates to bring him into it.
Good day.
by Uncle Nate on Sep 22, 2008 8:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Uncle Nate
Are you certain that the contract voids the grievance or can it still proceed and Alvarez ultimately be returned to the pool as Vlad suggested? I’m confused after reading all the posts as to the effect this new contract has on our “agreement” with Alvarez, if any.
by Illinois Pirate Fan on Sep 22, 2008 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't think the contract voids the grievance
But the MLBPA might drop it.
Steve Z
by steve_z on Sep 22, 2008 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It may just proceed as a dispute over extensions. Ideally, the union and MLB would settle it and agree on some workable procedure that’ll avoid these fiascos in the future. Of maybe an arbitrator will impose something. I just don’t want to see this again and if a grievance helps avoid that, carry on with it so long as the Pirates are out of it.
by WTM on Sep 22, 2008 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should have been "Or maybe"
Longing for an edit function . . . .
by WTM on Sep 22, 2008 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It makes sense...
….for the Union and League to work out an agreement on a procedure to follow in the future.
Steve Z
by steve_z on Sep 22, 2008 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It probably becomes
a dispute over the extensions practice, and the net result will be that negotiations begin somewhat earlier than 11:55 PM on deadline night, by mutual agreement. That won’t satisfy Boras, but then what will?
by RichieHebner on Sep 22, 2008 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not pleased that they caved.
As I said before, I think it creates a bad precedent, and I think their odds of getting Alvarez to camp under the old deal were pretty good.
by Vlad on Sep 22, 2008 9:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I am also unpersuaded...
…that this will have much bearing on the grievance. The MLBPA very well could decide to press ahead, if they want, and as such it’s just as likely that Alvarez will be kicked back into the pool now as it was before.
by Vlad on Sep 22, 2008 9:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pirates won battle, Boras won the war
The Bucs pulled one over on Boras on the night of the deadline, but Boras won out in the end. As much as I can’t stand him, you simply have to give the man credit. His client got a better deal without the risk of going back in the draft.
I am disappointed that the Pirates caved somewhat. However, we needed this guy in the fold. If he is all he is cracked up to be – then these shenanigans will be a distant memory in a few years.
by EStreet on Sep 22, 2008 10:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Who cares about caving?
I don’t think the contract is any better other than the fact that the published number strokes Boras’ fragile little ego. The contract seems to have the same present value as the first one (6 mil over 2 years versus 6.355 paid over 4 years). The Pirates get the player they thought they had. They get him into the system (maybe AFL?) and without additional payroll cost.
Is Boras really short? He sounds like someone with a severe case of Napoleon’s disease.
by Chad Bahamas on Sep 22, 2008 11:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Two things...
Dejan’s story this morning says that the contract will likely “quash” the grievance. This makes sense if you subscribe to my theory that MLB leaned on the Bucs to get this done. I agree that the contract does not necessarily kill the grievance, but I suspect that is part of the deal (that the players association agreed to withdraw the grievance).
Also, I would suggest that if the grievance is dropped (that is, there is no risk of a ruling against MLB on the deadline extensions) that the deal is a ‘win-win’. Boras gets to brag about the deal, but the additional substance is so minimal that it is also a win for the Pirates.
I am all about making a statement and standing on principle because such a stand is the only hope (albeit slight) for MLB someday providing an competitive economic environment for all of its teams. However, as discussed above, I see this as a ‘win-win’.
By the way, the only way I can see this contract becoming operative is if the players association signed off on it, which furthers my above suppositions.
Good day.
by Uncle Nate on Sep 22, 2008 11:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
BA speculates that MLB did lean on Coonelly a bit. If correct (it IS just speculation), that would suggest MLB didn’t see its position as impregnable.
I disagree with Vlad (which is rare) about the Pirates’ odds of keeping Alvarez. The arbitration might not even have resolved it and then court action would be a possibility. Once he went through all the trouble of the grievance and wasting half a year or whatever, it’s far from a given that PA would simply cave in without further action. I think the highest you could put the odds of PA ending up as a Pirate without some sort of settlement would be maybe a little over 50%, which is an awfully high risk for a player who could be a cornerstone for the team.
On the question of bad precedent — this was a truly bizarre dispute where you had a player saying “I agree” either before or after midnight, no clear procedure (nobody even knows for sure whether the deadline is satisfied by both sides agreeing, by MLB getting the paperwork, by MLB approving the paperwork, or what), a dropped phone call, the possibility that the whole thing got intertwined with at least two other players who went down to the last second, the whole history of draft litigation between MLB and the union, and other complications. It’s not really a precedent for anything, especially not if MLB and the union do what needs to be done and work out some real rules to govern this process. It doesn’t have to be anything more than a ridiculous mess that got straightened out without some terrible legal decision that might just make things worse.
Settlements are better for everybody.
by WTM on Sep 22, 2008 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When Wilbur and I disagree
Put your money on Wilbur.
by Vlad on Sep 22, 2008 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also disagree
But not expecting anyone to put money on me. Any deal the Pirates and Alvarez make must be by permission of the Players’ Association and MLB. Dyas can make any number of decisions about the practice, but he won’t overturn what essentially becomes the intent of the parties. That will likely lead to a resolution of Hosmer’s case, making Dyas’s job somewhat easier in that he has to rule on the practice, rather than an impossible mess of probably irreconcilable contentions by MLBPA, MLB, PBC and ROB (Republic of Boras).
by RichieHebner on Sep 22, 2008 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's hope....
….the kid is as good as advertised and can get to the big leagues and be productive sooner rather than later because he’ll be in New York, Chicago, LA or some other “big” market like Milwaukee that will spend money to bring him in as a FA the first chance he gets.
by Brakeman8 on Sep 22, 2008 12:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just supposin' but let's just suppose ..,
that during the course of the grievance/arbitration process, it became pretty clear to the parties involved that the Pirates DID have a valid agreement with Alvarez. Now they could be hard-assed about it, and insist that everybody stick to the terms of the original agreement so they come out looking like winners and Boras comes out looking like an ass. But they must know that to acquire the kind of high-end talent they’re going to need, they will have to deal with Boras again many times down the road.
So supposin’ they said, “Look, our agreement is good, it’s as solid as a contract, just without the signature. You know it and we know it. What we’re going to do, though, is tear up that agreement and offer you this one. It’s not a renegotiation, it’s a new agreement, because we all know the first one was legit. Just as if you had signed the contract, and three weeks later we liked you enough to tear it up and give you a new one. We’ll give up on the minor-league part of the contract and in return you spread the money out a little more. Alvarez gets his money, we get our player, you save face. Win-win-win.”
Could they do this legally, and without violating the CBA? Anybody?
by bucdaddy on Sep 22, 2008 12:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sure.
Two parties in a contract can mutually agree to renegotiate a preexisting, as long as there’s no element of coercion involved. Like when you tear up the last year on a player’s existing deal as part of a new extension.
by Vlad on Sep 22, 2008 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
With all due respect...
I doubt that the parties in this case can simply agree to a new contract without the blessing of both MLB and the players’ association. That said, this is a unique situation and I expect all sides to agree. That the players may not yet have done so illustrates what we all knew: the Boras was behind the whole grievance dealie.
If they sides could simply rip op the contract, the deadline would be largely emasculated because parties could continue negotiating past the deadline with a hold out if the player did not like the finalized terms. In fact, I thought there was a rule that the contract couldn’t be re-worked for a certain length of time (maybe a year?).
Good day.
by Uncle Nate on Sep 22, 2008 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both behind it and not behind it.
He got the ball rolling, but if he were the sole motivator, then this would’ve all vanished when he and Alvarez agreed to the revised terms. Since the new deal is contingent on MLB/the MLBPA coming to some kind of agreement in lieu of continuing the arbitration, though, it’s clear that he’s not some kind of puppeteer-in-the-shadows for the whole thing. The MLBPA is going to try and get an end to the practice of signing extensions as a way of showing that they have the muscle necessary to defend their side of the CBA, and I doubt they just fold up their tents and go home without getting it purely because Boras got what he wanted. They were both using each other to pursue their own aims.
If the practice of deadline extensions is killed, then this won’t open up any new avenues for potential post-deadline deals, since the language in any settlement between MLB and the MLBPA will likely preclude such. Which kind of sucks for Boras, but it’s not like MLB or the MLBPA are going to care much about his interests in the matter.
I don’t know of any rule on a time limit for re-working a contract, though that doesn’t mean that there isn’t one. There IS a time restriction on trading newly signed players, be they amateurs or vets; is that maybe what you were thinking about?
by Vlad on Sep 22, 2008 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't it open new avenues?
What stops a verbal agreement, then the player doesn’t sign or report, the team puts him on the restricted list, and they negotiate up until the next spring training or beyond? There’s little leverage, but they might play on how badly they want their prospect in the system.
by azibuck on Sep 22, 2008 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All player contracts are approved by MLB.
Let’s say MLB agrees to stop issuing extensions, as a way of making this all go away. For their new commitment to a hard deadline (what the MLBPA is seeking) to have any teeth, teams/players will need to have all deals finalized and in writing and submitted to the commissioner’s office before that deadline in order to ensure that MLB is in compliance with the CBA’s restrictions. Which means that any deal that isn’t signed, sealed, and delivered by the deadline gets thrown out. And if a player refuses to report despite a formal, signed contract, then MLB will have the authority to throw out any subsequent revisitation, even if the team in question wants to cave.
The commissioner has broad powers to act “in the best interest of baseball”, when necessary. Think back to Charlie Finley’s thwarted plan to sell all the A’s stars to the highest bidder before they could reach free agency. He’d be well within his rights to squash an ex-post-facto draft signing or two, particularly if he can argue that he’s just adhering to the letter of the CBA to do so.
by Vlad on Sep 22, 2008 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never let it be said that this commissioner
will ever make a decision when he can either defer one, or straddle the fence in some fashion designed to make things even worse than they were before he became involved.
by RichieHebner on Sep 22, 2008 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hear, hear.
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- HST
by cocktailsfor2 on Sep 22, 2008 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's exactly what the Pirates will say happened
After the two parties come to an agreement but before the player signs, the team (understandably) has the right to tear up the old agreement to offer more money to the player.
by shayborg on Sep 22, 2008 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hold onto your hats
Dejan is reporting that step two is to get MLB and the union to settle the grievance, which they are trying to do today, with a hearing set for tomorrow. It sounds as if the grievance has to get resolved for the Alvarez deal to get finalized. I imagine this will get done.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08266/914194-63.stm
Impressive coverage, btw.
by WTM on Sep 22, 2008 1:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
New can of worms?
If it’s a “new” deal, then it seems possible that negotiating happened after the deadline. So if nothing changes, couldn’t a player “agree” to a deal before the deadline, with the understanding he wouldn’t report until negotiations are complete?
It it’s a “revised” deal, it seems possible that they just crossed out every line in the one agreed to, and just re-wrote or put the new contract on as an addendum or something, such that they can say it’s a revising of the agreed upon deal, and the deadline was not breached. But again, if nothing changes, what’s stopping a player from doing this again. “Agreeing” to a deal and holding out another month to squeeze some cash, or a future incentive or something from The Club?
Or maybe the resolution of the grievance can nail it all shut.
Ha! Just kidding about that last one.
by azibuck on Sep 22, 2008 2:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I thought....
the grievance wasn’t about Alvarez. sarcasm
If the deal was made after midnight, does the extra $300,000 move the clock back a few minutes? If so, I believe we have found that time travel is possible! Take that Dr. Brown, your flux-capacitor, and DeLorean. All you need is Scott Boras.
Seriously, I am wondering if something happened in the intial arbitration meeting to make the Bucs do this.
by EndlessMike on Sep 22, 2008 3:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Happy ending
It would be great if the settlement with the union would reopen the window long enough for the Crow kid to sign with the Nationals.
by Arnold Rothstein on Sep 22, 2008 7:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I can't imagine
these guys allowed a revision of the deal to become public knowledge without MLB and the Players’ Association already having agreed to resolve the grievance. I was under the impression that condition precedent had been met. What a FUBAR mess this is…
by RichieHebner on Sep 22, 2008 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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