Nyjer Morgan Could Start Next Year

by Charlie on Sep 27, 2008 2:29 AM EDT Comment 27 comments

Oh no, please please no.

After being promoted from Class AAA Indianapolis Aug. 19, Morgan batted .347 -- 41 for 118 -- with 11 doubles and 20 runs. He reached base safely in 25 of 27 starts.

Because of that, he is being considered for starting duty next year.

"He did some really good things," manager John Russell said. "He was exciting. He really added a dimension to our offense. His missing three games is not going to affect our evaluation."

The awful play near the beginning of the season didn't count, it seems.

Going into the year with Morgan as a starting outfielder would be a debacle. I've said it a million times, but once more: players with his skill set simply do not make successful big leaguers. It simply does not happen anymore. I believe the new management--who faced a similar decision about Morgan last offseason and ultimately went with Nate McLouth instead, quite possibly sparing the Pirates a 100-loss season--knows this. I can't believe that the PIrates' front office seriously believes Morgan could start next year. My guess is that we'll have a show competition in Spring Training, and someone else will win the job. But quotes like these are still disconcerting.

Elsewhere in the article, the Bucs indicate they're interested in bringing back Doug Mientkiewicz and Jason Michaels. I don't really care about Mientkiewicz and his grittiness and soulfulness either way, but I can't argue with the .372 OBP or his versatility, so I won't quibble. Michaels stinks, though. He has a .636 OPS for the year (including a .672 OPS for the Bucs after a poor start for Cleveland), and he can really only play corner outfield. I wouldn't mind having a veteran fourth outfielder, but I think the Bucs should try to find a better one than Michaels.

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Ah, yes,

we get to look forward to a 2009 season full of misplays in the field, screwups on the basepaths, as well as a clueless approach at the plate, from Mr. Excitement, Nyjer Morgan.

Opening Day 2009 can`t arrive soon enough!

by patthatt on Sep 27, 2008 5:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

A few Morgan stats...

Pirates record in games Nyjer Morgan starts…11-20…record since his recall on 8/19…10-25.
Outfield assists by Nyjer Morgan…0.
Batting average on balls in play (BABIP) since 8/19 is .418…which any sabermetrician will tell you is unsustainable. To give you a comparison on BABIP…Xavier Nady’s is .333…Jason Bay’s is .322 and Nate’s is .291…Freddy at .285.

by Thunder on Sep 27, 2008 6:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

gotta hope

That Morgan is just being set up to start the year so that they make sure they have OFs to “hold off” McCutchen until June 2009. It would be similar to the way the Reds held off Jay Bruce this year. It would help the Pirates long term to hold off arbitration for Cutch.

by DSman on Sep 27, 2008 6:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Michaels

The idea of re-upping him is even worse than the idea of starting Morgan. The guy’s OPS+ the last three years is 85, 88 and 69. He’s not a major league hitter any more. Just an awful, awful idea.

by WTM on Sep 27, 2008 9:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

What,

Vince Coleman isn’t available?

by bucdaddy on Sep 27, 2008 10:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

In a way, I’m glad that this team isn’t following DL’s shrewd tactic of telling other teams and agents that the Pirates didn’t see C. Wilson or somebody as a regular player. Let’s hope that, having stood right next to Morgan all season, McCutchen turns up ready to take the job.

by Arnold Rothstein on Sep 27, 2008 11:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Nyjer and Starting McCutchen's Clock

1) I think that Huntington is trying to pump up Morgan in the hope that he can be traded to someone who would value him like Ed Wade valued Michael Bourn. There is no denying Morgan’s speed IF he can learn to use it.

Alan Wiggins helped take the Padres to the World Series in 1984 and his game was solely based on speed.

Properly used, speed can really wreak havoc on opponents.

2) The Reds were absolutely correct to have called Bruce up this year. Starting the clock on a player should NEVER be a consideration if he is major league-ready.

by thegunner on Sep 27, 2008 12:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Bourn is 25. Nyjer is 28. Not even Ed Wade is going to mistake Morgan for a prospect.

WIggins drew 75 walks. Morgan’s on pace to draw half that over a full season. He’s going to have to hit .300 to have a good OBP.

I agree about starting the clock, but the Reds probably waited long enough to call Bruce up that this year won’t help him become arbitration eligible.

by WTM on Sep 27, 2008 12:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Oh, sure....

bring logic into the equation.

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- HST

by cocktailsfor2 on Sep 27, 2008 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Minky....

is a solid veteran utilityman at this point,but being a “leader” on a lousy,last place team is of dubious value…
Have to say,Morgan looks more and more like he could be a solid utility outfielder.

by rissaldar on Sep 27, 2008 1:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think it's all about rewarding hard work.

Although Morgan doesn’t have the tools to sustain a career as a starter in the big leagues, I think the Bucco management admire his work ethic. Maybe they see his improved late season MLB numbers as fruits of his labour.

After years of apathy from players and coaches alike, an over achiever like Morgan should be celebra

by RDV across the sea on Sep 27, 2008 4:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don’t know if Morgan is an “overachiever.” When I look at him I see a player who has never absorbed a word his coaches have told him. That doesn’t scream “overachiever” to me.

by Charlie on Sep 27, 2008 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

CHARLIE U SOUND SO STUPID PLEASE STOP

WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR FACTS? YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT REAL BASEBALL TALENT IS. MORGAN IS A ROLL YOUR SLEEVES UP AND GET DIRTY TYPE SAVAGE. HE IS CUTHROAT AND A VERY TALENTED BALL PLAYER. I WANT YOU TO TELL ME WHERE HIS WEAKNESS IS? HIS NUMBERS SAY OTHERWISE AND JUST THE OPPOSITE OF YOUR GARBAGE THAT YOUR ON HERE PREACHING. WAKE UP AND GET A LIFE. YOU SAY THAT HE WAS WEAK AT THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR, BUT YET YOU FORGET TO MENTION HE WAS COMING OFF THE BENCH AND NOT IN A STARTING ROLE. EVERY TIME NYJER GETS A CHANCE TO BE A STARTING CONTRIBUTOR, HE IS ONE OF THE MOST PRODUCTIVE PLAYERS ON THE FIELD. IM SICK AND TIRED OF ALL YOUR NONSENSE THAT IS ALL BULL AND NO REAL TRUTH. GET A CLUE AND WATCH A GAME ONCE IN A WHILE CUZ U SOUND REALLY DUMB WHEN YOU SAY THINGS LIKE THE ABOVE. FOOLISH TALK IS ALL I EVER SEE FROM YOU ON THIS SUBJECT.

by STATDADDY on Oct 11, 2008 6:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Morgan as a starting contributor:

“EVERY TIME NYJER GETS A CHANCE TO BE A STARTING CONTRIBUTOR, HE IS ONE OF THE MOST PRODUCTIVE PLAYERS ON THE FIELD.”

2008, at Indy: .298/.349/.373. Seventh-best among regular and semi-regular players (i.e. 200+ AB for the team), behind (in order) Adam Boeve, Andrew McCutchen, Brian Bixler, Josh Wilson, Steve Pearce, and Craig Wilson.

2006, at Altoona: .306/.359/.393. Seventh-best among regular and semi-regular players, behind (in order) Craig Stansberry, Brett Roneberg, Vic Buttler, Ray Sadler, David Parrish, and Brian Bixler.

2006, at Lynchburg: .303/.390/.360. Fifth-best among regular and semi-regular players, behind (in order) Brian Bixler, Steve Pearce, Mike Carlin, and Neil Walker.

2005, at Lynchburg: .286/.328/.357. Twelfth-best among regular and semi-regular players, behind (in order) Pat Magness, Adam Boeve, Javier Guzman, Vic Buttler, Mike McCuistion, Brad Rea, Brandon Chaves, Bobby Kingsbury, Avelino Asprilla, Taber Lee, and Chaz Lytle.

2004, at Hickory: .255/.325/.337. Tenth-best among regular and semi-regular players, behind (in order) Jon Benick, Adam Boeve, Bobby Kingsbury, Craig Stansberry, Brad Rea, Mike Cockrell, Javier Guzman, Mike McCuistion, and Anthony Bocchino.

2003, at Williamsport: .343/.415/.399. Best on the team.

So, yeah. In rookie ball six years ago, Morgan was among the best hitters on his team. Every year since, not so much.

by Vlad on Oct 21, 2008 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

His weakness

“I WANT YOU TO TELL ME WHERE HIS WEAKNESS IS?”

1) Hitting for power.
2) Hitting for power.
3) Hitting for power.
4) Getting caught stealing.
5) Drawing walks.

I hope this was helpful to you. He has enough skills to be useful as a bench player, but he just doesn’t have the bat to be a quality starting CF in the majors, and he doesn’t do a very good job of exploiting his native skills. He’s a faster flat-out runner than Nate, for example, but Nate is a much better fundamental baserunner because he’s better at timing his jumps.

by Vlad on Oct 21, 2008 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The value of character on a baseball team is arguable, but I think Nyjer’s sticktuitiveness has already been celebrated to the fullest extent it deserves. His game is all speed and he can’t even slide into the bases properly! What’s the excuse for that, that he’s more used to the friction of ice from being a hockey player, so he slides too hard?

30 years ago, he could have been Matt Alexander, with a better glove. Next year, he should be a fan favorite in Indy. Great guy, some great catches… That’s where it ends. Deliver us Lord from slap hitters who post great batting averages in September, please.

by KPatrick on Sep 27, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think it all that bad of an idea to keep Mientikiewicz and Michaels around.

by Deaner on Sep 27, 2008 6:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Charlie

“Going into the year with Morgan as a starting outfielder would be a debacle. I’ve said it a million times, but once more: players with his skill set simply do not make successful big leaguers.”

In Mr. Excitement`s case, is it “skill set” or “thrill set”?

by patthatt on Sep 27, 2008 7:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Need a leadoff hitter

One month does not make a hitter (good or bad) but Mr. Excitement did seem to find something that last month. The Buccos do not really have a lead-off hitter, per say, as Nate will help the team much more batting 3rd or 5th. When Morgan got on base, he scored (with the exception when he would pull some boner move). This team needs to be able to get runners on for Nate and Doumit and LaRouche (2nd half only). I personally don’t care if he slaps, bunts, chops, or hits the ball off his helmet every time, as long as he gets on base and scores. Of course, I hope McCutch beats him out in the Spring, as well as Pearce, but as stated above, I doubt if McCutch starts the season in the big leagues and Pearce seems to be the black sheep that will be let go or thrown in with a Jack Wilson or other trade.

by long4willie on Sep 28, 2008 1:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm OK with him as a 5th OF...

…since he can play CF and is cheap, but if we’re starting Nyjer next season, then we’re in deep, deep trouble.

by Vlad on Sep 28, 2008 2:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Why Waste a Player?

Here’s the reality, folks: your 2009 Pirates will be 100 game losers . If everything breaks their way, they might approach 70 wins. On that team, why should you care about who’s starting at any position? All that matter is what happens in 2010 and later.

We have Nyjer Morgan for, essentially, free. Unlike Andy LaRoche, pre-July Adam LaRoche, and Brian Bixler, he has shown that he is capable of hitting major league pitching. He appears to suck off the bench (which is why it’s asinine to talk about his early season numbers – what did he get, 3 starts in April? Lots of legit major leaguers can’t hit off the bench), so he has NO long-term or short-term value as a backup player. The only way he provides value is, in the short term, as a place-holder for AMcCutcheon (why should we waste any of his 6 years as a Pirate on a 100 game loser?), and in the long term, as trade bait. If he plays the defense we’ve seen, hits over .300*, and cuts down just a bit on the baserunning goofs, he will look like a fine CF to plenty of teams.

What I’m saying is that you may be exactly right that he will not have a successful major league career. Who cares? Aramis Ramirez is having a fabulous career, and it doesn’t help us one bit. Let Nyjer Morgan fail elsewhere, but in the meantime, let’s get something for him. 3 good months as a starter will get us something decent for him. 3 months as a .200 bench guy just means that we cut him and get nothing.

Yeah, he doesn’t walk enough, but when he starts, he hits, and his SLG is pretty good thanks to all his 2Bs. Think a good defending CF with an OPS around .775 doesn’t have any value on the trade market? Think the Yankees could have used one this year?

by JRoth95 on Sep 30, 2008 10:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

.775 OPS? Pretty good SLG?

Nyjer has not had a season OPS of .775 since his 268 at-bats as a 22-year-old with Williamsport in 2003. He’s never had a slugging percentage over .400 at any level.

If we can trick some team into giving us something of value for Morgan, I’m all for it. But I just don’t see it happening.

Pittsburgh Lumber Co.
http://mvn.com/mlb-pirates

by MBandi on Sep 30, 2008 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are completely wrong

Nyjer’s SLG in 2007 was .430. I don’t know why you’d get that wrong, and I don’t know why you’d be so arrogant about it. Just because it was only a month doesn’t mean it didn’t happen (I’m pretty sure we don’t generally combine a player’s MiL stats with his ML, do we? Did Steve Pearce hit 4 HR this year, or 16?).

Furthermore, I don’t know why Charlie believes that you should include Nyjer’s early season disaster as a bench player in his stats for the year. He had 2 starts in 3 months, and was terrible. No shock. As I said, many, many legit ML batters suck as pinch hitters (Morgan is 5/47). In his 122 PAs as a starter this year, his OPS was .847. His career OPS as a starter is .839 (387/.452). Yes, his career BABIP is an unsustainable .404. But he’s a fast player who, this year at least, hits a good % of line drives. Similar players, like Kenny Lofton and Juan Pierre, have had career BABIPs of .330 and .320, respectively. If you knock Nyjer’s BABIP down to .330, he’s still got an OPS of .739. Are you all watching some league where every single team, including the Pirates, has a plus-D CF with an OPS of .740?

I guess what I’m saying is, for the claim “Nyjer Morgan is a terrible baseball player,” your case is not proven. You’ve pointed at a lot of things (low SLG, high BABIP, poor numbers that include pinch hitting) that don’t actually say what you claim they do. I respect the minor league numbers, but 2 things in response to them: 1. I’m not arguing NyMo as the CF of the future; I’m saying we should give him enough rope to hang himself or to get a prospect (you may have heard, our farm system is barren), since we don’t need him post-2009 regardless; 2. Pearce’s non-2007 numbers are mediocre* at every level, but no one here is claiming he shouldn’t be on the roster. I know everybody loves the long ball, but let’s not let HRs blind us to undistinguished play. Even including his pinch hitting, NyMo’s OPS+ for both 2007 and 2008 are better than Pearce’s. Yes, Pearce is younger; see my Point 1.

So: start NyMo for 3 months. If he plays well, then trade him for something – anything. If he plays poorly, cut him or send him down and play Pearce instead (and if Morgan has a shitty – like .250/.350/.600 shitty – April, then fine, he’s done – don’t leave him on the bench, worthless). Let Moss get most of the starts in RF, and don’t waste AMcCutcheon’s service time on a 100 game loser.

OPS around .860 in the low minors, .720 this year in Indy. Real ML power prospects do more, and/or do it younger.

by JRoth95 on Oct 2, 2008 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Morgan's 2008 numbers at AAA...

…translate to approximately a .266/.310/.324 season (Link). And that’s entirely in line with his undistinguished minor-league numbers from past seasons.

If we put him in the lineup for three months, all we’ll get is three months’ worth of bad baseball. Nobody is going to trade anything for him, and in the meantime, he’ll be sucking up PT that should be going to Moss/Pearce.

by Vlad on Sep 30, 2008 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

JROTH U R A SMART MAN

FINALLY SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS THE GAME

by STATDADDY on Oct 12, 2008 4:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

NYJ MO IS THE REAL DEAL

YOU GUYS SOUND SO STUPID ITS FUNNY!!!!!!!! NYJER MORGAN IS THE BEST THING THAT HAS FALLEN IN THE BUCS LAPS IN YEARS. HE HAS PROVEN THAT HE IS READY TO PLAY EVERYDAY AND PRODUCE AT THE MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL. HE HAS BETTER NUMBERS THAN ANYONE ON THE TEAM THE LAST MONTH EXCEPT FOR DOUMIT. HE GIVES THE PIRATES A REAL LEADOFF THREAT THAT MCLOUTH DOESN’T BRING TO THE TEAM. IF YOU THINK THAT MCLOUTH IS A LEADOFF HITTER FOR THE AGES THAN YOU ARE AS MISINFORMED AS THE CLOWN WHO WROTE THIS BLOG. TALK ABOUT SOMEONE WHO IS LOST!!!! THIS GUY CHARLIE SOUNDS LIKE A TOTAL MORON. HEY CHARLIE GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT AND STOP HATING ON THE PRODUCTION OF NYJER MORGAN. HE IS THE REAL DEAL AND HE WILL PROVE TO YOU (WHILE YOU SIT AT HOME AND HACK AWAY ON THE COMP IN YOUR ONE ROOM APARTMENT) THAT HE IS THE REAL THING. YOU SOUND PRETTY DUMB WITH YOUR DONT PLAY MORGAN ATITUDE AND YOUR STATS THAT ARE NOT EVEN ACCURATE. IF YOU ARE GOIN TO POSE A THOUGHT DONT FILL IT WITH A BUNCH OF HOGWASH THAT MAKES YOUR POINT SOUND GOOD. YOU SOUND DUMB AN UNEDUCATED SO KEEP IT UP YOU DO MORE HARM FOR YOURSELF THAN GOOD. PEOPLE READ WHAT YOU HAVE SAID AND JUST ROLL THEIR EYES AT YOUR ABSURD MISINFORMED ENRTY. WE ALL FELL SORRY FOR YOU CHARLIE WE REALLY DO. IT HAS TO BE TOUGH TO BE SUCH A HATER!!!!!

by STATDADDY on Oct 10, 2008 7:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs