Pirates' Farm System Improving
by Charlie on Jan 10, 2009 1:39 PM EST
19 comments
Thanks to Chad Bahamas, who found this. It's a set of rankings based on John Sickels' prospect grades for each organization, and it ranks the Pirates' farm system 16th, which obviously is middle-of-the-pack. That doesn't sound great, but in late January, Baseball America ranked the Pirates 26th; on February 1, Keith Law ranked them 24th. It's a far cry from what Jon Daniels has been able to do with the Rangers, but it's a great start. Neal Huntington didn't have a Mark Teixeira to trade, unfortunately--and no, Jason Bay doesn't count. (Daniels was a key player in the Worst GM competition last year; this year, he probably wouldn't even make the tournament.) By this point next year, the Pirates' system will hopefully be in the top ten.
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As I Recall, I May Be Wrong But ...
after Littlefield’s first or second year with the Pirates, weren’t the Pirates given an award for the best farm system in baseball?
Just wondering.
by thegunner on Jan 10, 2009 2:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know—who gave it to them? I didn’t pay attention as closely then as I do now, but I don’t remember the farm system being particularly well regarded at any point in Littlefield’s tenure. See here and here.
by Charlie on Jan 10, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
According to that second link
The highest ranking for the Pirates in the Littlefield years was 11th in 2004.
I made most of my life decisions at a Foghat concert... I stand by them.
by Chester J Lampwick on Jan 10, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That would’ve been just before Snell, Maholm, Doumit, Duffy, McLouth and Paulino made an impact, so that makes sense.
by Charlie on Jan 10, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If You Google ....
"Dave Littlefield, Pirates, minor league, award, you will find a biography of DL, probably from the 2003 Pirate Media Guide.
In 2002, the Pirates were awarded the Topps Organization Of The Year Award.
Check it out.
by thegunner on Jan 11, 2009 11:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not for the "farm system" per se
“The Topps Baseball Organization of the Year Award is presented each year to a Major League organization based on the number of players in their system who have received Topps awards during the past season. Points are awarded for four different minor league categories including All-Star players, Players of the Month, the Trautman and Taylor Spink Award recipients (the former for each league’s Minor League Player of the Year and the latter for the Topps overall Minor League Player of the Year), and for Major League rookies who made the Topps Rookie All-Star team.”
No idea who won those awards, but I know the AAA all-star team includes more journeymen and minor league vets than real prospects.
by azibuck on Jan 12, 2009 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly My Point!!!
It doesn’t matter whether it is Topps, John Sickels, Keith Law, Baseball Prospectus or anyone else who evaluates MLB franchises and gives out these so-called “awards” or “rankings”.
The only thing that really matters is PERFORMANCE and RESULTS at the major league level.
As a kid in the 50s, I used to get excited when the Pirates finished over .500 in spring training. But, at the end of most seasons, when I would check the standings, the Pirates were usually at or near the bottom of the then-eight team National League.
Some things never change - although now, there are really only four other divison teams to worry about. Let’s not even bring the “wild card” into it.
We never had the internet or blogs back then. But even though we had a lot of time to waste as kids, we never spent much time thinking about how many games a player would play or what his batting average or other stats would be. We had better ways to waste our time - and still do!
by thegunner on Jan 12, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, it matters whether it's Topps, Sickels, Law, etc.
Sickels, Law, Goldstein, et al are using scouting and data analysis to make forward projections for the guys in our system. They don’t give a rat’s ass whether those guys win awards, and they’re more concerned with forward projection than with current results. Topps had a totally different aim – to honor organizations for having their players win awards (while not incidentally associating their brand with award-winners). Topps wasn’t even trying to make any judgments about whether those minor league All-Stars would grow up to be useful major league players. So it shouldn’t be a big surprise that Topps gave their award to a team with a bunch of overaged non-prospects who won awards. Within their methodology, that’s a feature, not a bug.
If, as you’re trying to claim, projecting forward performance for young players is such a fool’s errand, why even bother with hiring and paying scouts? We could get an alphabetical directory of all eligible players, and start picking at the letter “A”.
The only difference between a scout like Howie Haak and a professional analyst like Sickels/Law/Goldstein is that the former works for a team and keeps his work private, and the latter works for a media organization and makes his work public.
by Vlad on Jan 12, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BUT SICKELS, LAW AND GOLDSTEIN ARE JUST INTERNET DWEEBS WHO HAVEN’T BEEN OUTSIDE IN SO LONG THAT THEY LOOK LIKE MORLOCKS!!!
Or at least that’s what I’ve heard.
by WTM on Jan 12, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm proud and happy to honestly ask
What the F@#$ is a morlock?
by azibuck on Jan 12, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Time Machine is public domain.
Free e-text by Project Gutenberg here. Lots of other cool stuff on the site, too (as well as some more titles on PG Australia).
by Vlad on Jan 12, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"And Start Picking At The Letter "A" ...
As In Alvarez, maybe???
by thegunner on Jan 12, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably not.
Listed alphabetically, the first player drafted last year was
Second was Adam Abraham, a 13th-round 3B from the University of Michigan, taken by the Indians. Third was Hector Acosta-Carrillo, a high school outfielder from Arakansas who didn’t sign after the Indians made him their 50th pick. I bet we could’ve gotten him for third-round money, but I still like our draft better.
by Vlad on Jan 12, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
D'oh!
The player swallowed by a HTML typo in the first graf was Mitch Abeita, a catcher from the University of Nebraska, taken in the 19th round by the Yankees.
by Vlad on Jan 12, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And if you restrict it to consensus first-round guys...
…then we would’ve gone with Yonder Alonso.
by Vlad on Jan 12, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Cam took #1 overall in 1997.
BA’s top 10 for us that year:
1) Kris Benson, RHP
2) Chad Hermansen, ShortStop
3) Jose Guillen, Outfield
4) Aramis Ramirez, Third Base
5) Ron Wright, First Base
6) Abraham Nunez, Short Stop
7) Lou Collier, Short Stop
8) Jimmy Anderson, Left Handed Pitcher
9) Elvin Hernandez, Right Handed Pitcher
10) Charles Peterson, Outfield
Not a terrible job ranking, in retrospect. Benson, Guillen, and Ramirez developed into solid starters, Nunez and Collier had long careers as backups, and all but Hernandez and Peterson at least reached the majors. There were also some guys outside the top 10 who became significant players, like Bronson Arroyo.
Anybody know what happened with Hernandez? He’s the only guy whose name didn’t ring any bells for me. His 1996 numbers were insanely good (a 171/16 K/BB in 157 IP as an 18-year-old in the Sally league, for example) and then he just totally hit a brick wall at AA and was out of the organization by 1999. Surgery? He didn’t miss any seasons, but his 1997 was a little short on PT.
by Vlad on Jan 11, 2009 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Phil Rogers, Chicago Tribune, writes:
Ryan Doumit lies.
The Pittsburgh Pirates’ catcher says he signed a three-year,
$11.5 million contract extension because he’s ``excited about
what the future holds for the Pittsburgh Pirates.’’
Yeah, right. And the addition of Khalil Greene means the St.
Louis Cardinals are going to be a force again. And the signing
of a 41-year-old Trevor Hoffman more than offsets the
departures of CC Sabathia and Ben Sheets from the Milwaukee
Brewers.
Forget the addition of Milton Bradley and re-signing of Ryan
Dempster. The best thing for the Cubs in this off-season is
that the rest of the National League Central has done so
little.
+
I hope that doesn’t exceed fair-use parameters. Just thought it was funny.
by bucdaddy on Jan 10, 2009 3:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Three grafs from a column is probably OK.
Your claim would be stronger, though, if you included some critical commentary. Even if it’s just something obvious, like “Phil Rogers is a jackass.”
by Vlad on Jan 11, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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