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What are the Royals Doing?

The other day, in a conversation about why the Pirates would have to overpay for certain types of free agents, Vlad wrote:

[Kansas City] has a comparable amount of trouble in attracting FAs, and generally has to overpay for even second-tier talent. Just look at the [Jose] Guillen signing – should we be making moves like that one?

This is a good question. Recently, a number of fans have argued that the Pirates ought to drop a bunch of money on free agents so that the Pirates can contend sooner. Whenever I hear this argument, I think of the Royals. 

Leaving out minor-league contracts and situations where the Royals picked up a guy who'd been cut and paid him the minimum, here are Dayton Moore's veteran acquisitions since the 2006-2007 offseason. I'm defining "veteran" as anyone older than 26 or so. Let me know if I left anyone out, because this was not an easy list to make.

November 2006: Acquired Jason LaRue and about $2 million of his contract from Cincinnati for $1. (Yes, seriously.)

December 2006: Signed John Bale to a two-year, $4 million deal.

December 2006: Signed Octavio Dotel to a two-year, $10 million deal.

December 2006: Traded Andrew Sisco to the White Sox for Ross Gload, who the Royals later re-signed to a two-year, $3.2 million deal.

December 2006: Signed David RIske to a one-year, $2.25 million deal.

December 2006: Signed Gil Meche to a five-year, $55 million deal.

November 2007: Signed Yasuhiko Yabuta to a two-year, $6 million deal. 

December 2007: Signed Jose Guillen to a three-year, $36 million deal.

December 2007: Signed Ron Mahay to a two-year, $8 million deal.

December 2007: SIgned Miguel Olivo to a one-year, $2.05 million deal with a $2.7 million option for 2009, which was later exercised.

January 2008: Signed Brett Tomko to a one year, $3 million deal.

October 2008: Traded Leo Nunez to the Marlins for Mike Jacobs. Jacobs is eligible for arbitration.

November 2008: Traded Ramon Ramirez to the Red Sox for Coco Crisp. Crisp has one year and $5.75 million remaining on his contract, plus an $8 million option or $500,000 buyout for 2010.

December 2008: Signed Kyle Farnsworth to a two-year, $9.25 million contract.

December 2008: Signed Doug Waechter to a one-year, $640,000 deal.

December 2008: SIgned Horacio Ramirez to a one-year, $1.9 million option. 

January 2009: Signed Willie Bloomquist to a two-year, $3.1 million deal.

My point is not that all these signings were unnecessary or bad. Meche in particular was a great signing; Riske was good. Bale and Mahay have been harmless. Dotel actually brought back Kyle Davies, who stands some theoretical chance of being useful. (I say "actually" because these sorts of free-agent-for-prospect trades are very rare.) It's also true that acquiring this many major league veterans made more sense for the Royals than it would for the Pirates, since Moore inherited a number of gaping holes and Neal Huntington didn't.

Speaking more broadly, though: is this what we want our team to look like? The Royals have acquired so many veterans it's exhausting to catalog them all. The reason they've had to acquire so many is that most of them have been terrible. LaRue? A bad joke. Gload? Olivo? Not good. Yabuta? A non-factor. Guillen? Horrible. Tomko? Yuck. And just wait until Royals fans get another look at Horacio Ramirez and a first look at Jacobs and Bloomquist.

As long as these guys aren't blocking anyone, I suppose that, on some level, you have to give them credit for trying, at least. (In the case of someone like Jacobs, who is blocking better players, well, forget it.)

However: I know fans generally aren't too sympathetic to arguments from the perspective of the team, and they shouldn't be, but look: in 2009, the Royals are going to pay north of $50 million for players on the list above. And what they'll probably get for their $50 million is 200 solid innings from Meche, maybe a few decent innings from Bale, Mahay and Farnsworth, some decent defense from Crisp, and tons and tons of replacement-level or sub-replacement-level performance. As a fan, you could say that the 500 godawful at-bats from Guillen are worth it because of how good Meche is, but you're not the one who has to spend the $50 million. If Huntington spent $50 million the way the Royals are about to spend $50 million this season, there would be serious questions about his judgment, probably many of them from the same fans who are now blasting him for not spending more.

Now, you might say that the Royals aren't a good example of what would happen if the Pirates dropped a bunch of money on free agents, because the Royals spent their money badly. To an extent, that's true, and the Royals really need to have their heads checked for the Ramirez, Bloomquist and Jacobs moves in particular.

But often, the Royals were just responding to the market. Even a mid-tier free agent like Jose Guillen will not come to Kansas City unless he is overpaid. The same goes for Meche, who hadn't done much of anything before signing with the Royals. A lot of the other guys the Royals signed just did what free agents signed to one-year and two-year deals tend to do, which is stink. 

Personally, I'd rather wait until the Pirates develop the sort of core that would make Pittsburgh an attractive destination for a free agent. I'm not sure one Gil Meche is really worth the rest of the mess the Royals have made, and I can't blame the Pirates for failing to drop $50 million just for the equivalent of just one good player.

2 recs  |  Comment 33 comments |

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Well done, Charlie

That’s exactly what the Pirates would look like if they went out and signed a bunch of FAs. What you absolutely can’t convince fans of is the fact that useful FAsjust flat won’t sign with teams like the Pirates and Royals. Most fans have an unshakeable belief that the Pirates can sign any FA they want if they simply “open the wallet.” The Royals are evidence that it’s just not true.

by WTM on Jan 13, 2009 6:04 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Also look at the Nats.

They came into this offseason looking to invest big in the team. They actually had the high bid for Tex (by about $4M), as well as the opportunity to play near his home in Maryland, but he decided to sign with the Yankees. They made offers for Manny and Dunn, both of whom prefer to wait for opportunities somewhere (anywhere!) else. The one guy they managed to get in a competitive bidding process was Daniel Cabrera – and they were pretty much bidding against us!

by Vlad on Jan 14, 2009 10:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess the silver lining is...

… in a few years we can hope the Pirates will be good enough to warrant the overpaying of a Meche or Guillen to sign in Pittsburgh, to push us over the top?

and as a rhetorical question to the yahoos who want the Pirates to open the wallet now, how much more $ would the Pirates (or the Royals, for that matter) have had to offer to land a useful FA such as a CC Sabathia or a Mark Teixeira? is there any dollar value that would have been enough?

by humbucker on Jan 13, 2009 6:18 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

One would hope that when the Pirates have the core to compete, players won’t overcharge them anymore. The reason they don’t want to come isn’t, IMO, because there’s anything wrong with Pittsburgh, but because of the team’s reputation as a perpetual loser.

by Charlie on Jan 13, 2009 7:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This was posted on DRaysBay a few days ago...

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/a-royal-dump

“Kyle Farnsworth – 2 years, $9 million, 2006 to 2008: 0.1 wins above replacement
Mike Jacobs – 1 year, $3.5 million, 2006 to 2008: 0.7 wins above replacement
Horacio Ramirez – 1 year, $1.9 million, 2006 to 2008: 0.2 wins above replacement
Willie Bloomquist – 2 years, $3 million, 2006 to 2008: 0.3 wins above replacement”

Dayton Moore isn’t good at his job.

by mittens on Jan 13, 2009 7:24 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Meche was a great signing? Since the deal, he has had one very good year and another that was slightly above average… He’s heading into his 30 year old season with three years left on his deal and he’s once propelled the Royals to the greater glory of fourth place… and coming off four below average seasons, the Royals were thought to have greatly overpaid for his services when the deal was signed… so what is it that makes the Meche signing “great” and how can the Pirates emulate it?

by Captain Easychord on Jan 13, 2009 8:24 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Actually Meche has had...

One great year (take a guess where his 3.6 ERA ranked that year? 7th in the AL)
One Amazing year with one bad month. (Gil Meche April 2008: 8.80 ERA, Gil Meche rest of 2008: 3.20ERA)
Not to mention his contract, even if he was simply above average and putting up a 4.00 ERA each year, is exactly what the market would dictate for that player.
What makes the signing great is that GMDM saw a player who was being underutilized in another organization, saw that he had some mechanical flaws that could be fixed, and went out and signed him to a (at the time) slightly above league average contract.

I refuse to set up a signature....DAMMIT

by RoyalPug on Jan 13, 2009 9:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Meche has certainly been worth his contract so far, but the contract isn’t even half up yet. It’s usually not the first few years of a contract you need to worry about…

by wickethewok on Jan 14, 2009 9:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Please tell me you aren’t evaluating “very good” and “slightly above average” merely by looking at ERA. Have you heard of advanced pitching metrics like FIP and tRA?

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Jan 14, 2009 12:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't list to this guy

I haven’t seen him make a positive comment about any Royal except how AMAZING Alex Gordon is!

Meche has been great and Guillen will be better this year (although never live up to the contract). But the Royals need to overpay to get even somewhat talented players (like Farnsworth, Crisp and Jacobs)

I don’t think Moore has done a good job by any stretch of the means. Jacobs/Crisp could totally suck next year. However, he was able to trade Nunez/Ramirez (the former was stuck between starting/relieving before his one breakout injury plagued season, the latter Moore got for nothing in a trade).

by GobbleforCyoung on Jan 15, 2009 9:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I already said this...

…but trading Ramirez is a bad thing, not a good one.

Getting Ramirez for nothing in the first place was a nice move. Throwing him away for a guy like Jacobs negates that.

by Vlad on Jan 15, 2009 10:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ramirez was traded for Crisp. Nunez was traded for Jacobs

The Ramirez trade was, perhaps, a mild positive for the Royals. The Nunez trade was a clear negative.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Jan 15, 2009 12:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Meh.

I wouldn’t trade Ramirez for both of ’em.

by Vlad on Jan 15, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Meche was a smart signing.

He was a top prospect in Seattle (a reminder here), who had been dealing with medical problems for a few years (nothing that would likely recur in the future), but still had good stuff and was still fairly young. He had a fully healthy season in 2006 with a big bounce in his K rate and other good peripherals, and as such he was a fairly good bet.

[I’m not just engaging in 20-20 hindsight here, by the way. I actually liked the deal at the time, and defended it when it was signed – here, here, and here, for example. I’ve gotten lots of other stuff wrong over the years, but I’ve always been a little bit proud of that one.]

The one thing that we can learn from the Meche deal, as an organization, is the value of striking early. If we target a guy who’s perceived as second- or third-tier, but still a useful player who’d be a positive on the roster, at a time when all the more attractive big-market teams are focused on the Sabathias and Teixeiras of the world, a slightly-above-market offer by us can bring a lot of useful pressure to bear on the player. It’s tougher to turn down a nice, fat bird in your hand at a time when nobody else is even saying your name. Not a slam dunk, or anything like that, but I’ll take any edge I can get.

by Vlad on Jan 14, 2009 10:26 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I liked Meche at the time and I thought he’d be a great guy for the Pirates to look at… but the contract the Royals gave him looked awfully excessive at the time (and still may turn out to be so)… Nevertheless, given Charlie’s stance that the Pirates shouldn’t go after big money free agents because they aren’t at the right point in the success cycle seems to be at odds with his classification of the Meche deal…

by Captain Easychord on Jan 14, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If every deal turned out as well as the Meche signing did, I’d have a different opinion of them. But most of them don’t. I thought at the time of the signing that it was a bad idea, but I’ll give Moore credit, in this case, for seeing something I didn’t.

by Charlie on Jan 14, 2009 6:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Also, the reason this Royals team is no good is because there are way too many Burnitz and Meares-type players on the list… I’d like to see the Pirates go out and get somebody, but the only way it makes sense is if you avoid the mushy middle of the free agent class… and sure, maybe the Pirates can’t convince a top level or second level player to sign… that’s OK… but it would at least be encouraging to hear about them making inquiries…

(and yes, I realize how little sense this makes, but the thought of the Pirates actually going out and trying to get a guy who’ll help win a few more ballgames gives me the warm fuzzies… so does the thought of actually spending money on major league payroll, something I’m still not convinced that they’ll do when the time comes… and y’know, the team’s performance on the field brings me so little enjoyment… so it would be a welcome day in the sun…)

by Captain Easychord on Jan 13, 2009 8:42 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Something you need to take into consideration:

In 2-3 years the Royals are going to have to resign the following:
Alex Gordon
Billy Butler
Kyle Davies
Zach Greinke
David Dejesus
Mark Teahen
Luke Hochevar
and likely have to lock up:
Carlos Rosa
Mike Moustakas
Daniel Cortes
Kila Ka’aihue
and maybe Mongomery and Melville too.

The problem, one Pirates fans can sympathize with, is that it is notoriously difficult to get the management to open the pocketbooks.

Now look at the contracts(with the exception of the Meche contract) signed by GMDM over the last couple of years: not a single one for more than three(guillen) and that contract has two years left.

Essentially that means the royals will have about $40 million coming off the books over the next two years. and a promise to increase the payroll by about another 10%.

So GMDM is basically just using Veterans to make this team respectable now, so that he can use the money freed up later to sign the young talent to make this team competitive.

Just like a GM might sign a replacement level veteran to hold the fortress till a superstar prospect is ready, GMDM is stowing money in veterans contracts to hold the fort till he needs it to pay those prospects.

I refuse to set up a signature....DAMMIT

by RoyalPug on Jan 13, 2009 9:21 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

So he is throwing money away now in order to have it later? That’s an interesting strategy. One would think that just telling the boss his intentions would work better.

I really question how effective a lot of these signings have been or are going to be at making the Royals “respectable.” Meche has obviously been a huge help, given the pitching alternatives, and some of the relievers have been modestly useful, but in a lot of cases I think they’d be better off grabbing whoever’s in the farm system.

by Charlie on Jan 13, 2009 9:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You’re right, Charlie. These signings, particularly those done this offseason, have been generally disastrous. Throwing money away without adding to the long term talent base. Read Rany Jazayerli on the Bloomquist joke http://www.ranyontheroyals.com/. Rany is a bright guy, KC fan, and was a co founder of BP, He is finally fed up with Dayton Moore.

by rogero on Jan 13, 2009 9:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn’t really call it throwing away money. Its really more about the mindset of this is going to be our payroll, and slowly raising it. Its not like the signings done where the first option. The Royals were interested in Fucal, and by all reports made the same 4/40 offer that everyone else did.
Second I would say they have helped the royals become respectable, in 2 years the Royals have gone from 67 wins to 75

Finally I think its a stretch to call these signings disastrous. None of them hinder the Royals longterm ability to contend, and we don’t know how they will work out. If Jacobs gets 20 more points of OBP, crisp returns to 06 form and Farnsworth actually pans out, then we will all be lauding GMDM as a genious. and frankly I think each of those things has a decent chance of happening, not all of them mind you, but if even one works out, then the royals got a good player for money spent one year.

Besides where else is the money going to go? The Royals are top spenders on the draft, in Latin America, in Japan and in their farm system. I’d rather over pay some veteran than continure to pay David Glass.

I refuse to set up a signature....DAMMIT

by RoyalPug on Jan 14, 2009 12:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

One of those is fairly likely:

Crisp hit .264/.317/.385 in 2006. I bet he can match that this year.

The others are much, much less likely. In a ten-year professional career, Jacobs’s single-season high for walks is 45 (in 2005 and 2006). He just doesn’t look at enough pitches to get on base much. And Professor Farnsworth is, well, Professor Farnsworth.

It’s your money, and you can spend it how you want, but I don’t see that the lottery tickets you’re buying here are significantly higher-upside than a typical high-quality NRI. And one of the guys you mention (Jacobs) is actively getting in the way of guys who belong in the majors (Ka’aihue and Butler), guys who should be a part of that nebulous future core.

by Vlad on Jan 14, 2009 10:01 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I see you’ve cribbed some of the points, RP, that I made earlier in disagreeing with Charlie and Wilbur’s approach to the FA market. But with a crucial difference. I argued for signing talented FAs, to expand the Pirate’s talent on the big club, and not just focus on prospects. There has been—still is—underpriced talent out there that can help the Pirates be competitive down the road. None of KC’s additions this year, including Crisp, qualiifies.

The heart of my disagreement with C & W is this: I see no intrinsic value in not spending the money. As Beane has done by trading for Holliday and trying to get Furcal. I see no point in waiting for godot—that time in the (distant?) future when it will be clear (to NH, to everyone?) that the Pirates have enough talent to win before sticking their toes in the FA market. The money is more valuable to the franchise in Burrell’s, Dunn’s, Sheet’s, or even Baldelli’s or Rivera’s, pockets that in McNutter’s.

But I’d rather have McNutter keep it than sign Willie Bloomquist.

Jazayerli has posted a followup to his original Bloomquist column. He wanted to let things settle a bit to see if he had overreacted. He hadn’t. He makes this point, among many: last season KC drew fewer walks than all but 3 teams have in the last 75 years. In Moore’s entire tenure, he has not acquired a single player who has even a league average walk rate. Not only is he wasting money on players without the talent necessary to help to build his team, they’re the wrong kind of players. That’s incompetence.

by rogero on Jan 14, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

C & W??

That might be especially inappropriate as applied to Charlie. (-:

by WTM on Jan 14, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure I believe that

You could easily fill those spots with replacement level players for much less money…and those replacement players wouldn’t be noticeably worse than some of the players Moore has signed.

by mittens on Jan 13, 2009 11:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey at least their trying

I love how writers can’t find anything better to write about than signings of the Royals. To criticize the Royals for signing players because the Pirates can’t or won’ is BS. The facts are the Pirates finished last in a weak division last year. The Royals did not and played in a tougher division. I must remind you they tied for best record against the National League. The had 8 more wins and their young players aren’t even at their potential yet. To criticize the Royals move for Crisp is stupid. We got an everyday player out of a pitcher that was traded for Jorge DeLa Rosa (terrible pitcher). Jacobs was traded for the inconsistent often injured Nunez for a lofty sum of 3.5 mill. That’s breaking the bank. Plus why don’t you let the season start before you bash these new signings. I think there is something more to this. Jealousy, because there were teams that rivaled the Pirates for the cellar every year. Rays, Royals, Nats, the Rays you can’t even mention in your conversation and the Royals you see bettering themselves and you want to knock them. Stick to writing stories about the Nats before they better their team also. Just for this article I hope you guys set a franchise record for losses 162.

by nsadoru2 on Jan 14, 2009 4:21 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Bra-vo!

Did you read past the headline?

To criticize the Royals move for Crisp is stupid.

Agreed. Now where’s the criticism? Other than stating contractual facts, Charlie’s only other mention was of a positive defensive contribution.

Plus why don’t you let the season start before you bash these new signings

Why wait when they’ve got a track record?

Seriously, what is your point? His whole first paragraph goes over the signings that range from harmless to good, and allows that this strategy made more sense for the Royals than the Pirates. But you’re mad because he said something unflattering about Willie Effing Bloomquist? Ramirez? who doesn’t even get lefties out? And what, a fan of another team can’t have an opinion on Mike Jacobs? Why not?

by azibuck on Jan 14, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Heh.

That’s hilarious, and kind of adorable, too. Like being attacked by a teacup poodle.

If you’re happy about the Royals grabbing Farnsworths and Gathrights with both hands, that’s great. It works out well for everybody. You can enjoy watching them, and we can enjoy not having to watch them. And in a few years, we can enjoy having the prospects we used the money on instead, and you can enjoy signing the future equivalents of Farnsworth and Gathright. Maybe they’ll be solar powered, or transform into robotic sharks, or something neat like that.

by Vlad on Jan 14, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

dude

i would totally go to a royals game if they turned into robotic sharks.

jaws 5: joey gathright swims in the outfield fountains and eats groundskeepers.

by johnnycuff on Jan 14, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Vlad

Joey Gathright is not on the roster anymore he was signed by the Cubs two months ago. We also have prospects but the difference will be we are in a position now to keep our prospects you guys trade them to the Red Sox once they blossom.

by nsadoru2 on Jan 14, 2009 5:54 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

So the point is, The Royals aren’t as dumb as the Pirates? That’s like arguing that my kid is better than yours because yours got 20 months in juvenile detention and mine only got 18.

by WTM on Jan 14, 2009 6:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wait....

We’ve had prospects that have blossomed?

Pittsburgh Lumber Co.
http://mvn.com/pittsburghlumberco

by MBandi on Jan 14, 2009 7:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It was a Freudian slip.

My brain substituted one fast guy who couldn’t hit (Gathright) for another (Bloomquist).

The joke makes a lot more sense with Willie B-u-st, anyway. Since his big calling card is his versatility, who’s to say that he doesn’t have the range for RS (Robot Shark)?

by Vlad on Jan 14, 2009 7:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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