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Pirates.com: Donnie Veal's Disabled List Placements Were Bogus

Pittsburgh Pirates pitcher Donnie Veal throws against the Los Angeles Dodgers in the fifth inning of a baseball game in Pittsburgh Friday, Sept. 25, 2009. The Pirates won 3-1, with Veal pitching two scoreless innings to get his first major league win. (AP Photo/Gene J. Puskar)

More photos » by Gene J. Puskar - AP

about 1 month ago: Pittsburgh Pirates pitcher Donnie Veal throws against the Los Angeles Dodgers in the fifth inning of a baseball game in Pittsburgh Friday, Sept. 25, 2009. The Pirates won 3-1, with Veal pitching two scoreless innings to get his first major league win. (AP Photo/Gene J. Puskar)

A pretty hilarious note from the mothership. Emphasis mine:

[Donald] Veal made only six appearances before the All-Star break and was twice put on the disabled list so the Pirates could take advantage of sending him to the Minors for rehab work

Silly me, I thought the disabled list was for players who were hurt. Neal Huntington himself actually admitted in early June that his decision to place Veal on the DL for a "groin strain" was "an aggressive placement." Dejan Kovacevic of the Post-Gazette has called Veal's DL assignments "dubious." And now we have Jen Langosch claiming that Veal's DL stints were straight-up fraudulent. Well, she doesn't say that exactly, but she does say that injury isn't the reason he went on the DL.

I wrote about the Rule 5 draft at length in early 2008 and it's kind of a pet peeve of mine, so I'd encourage you to check that article out. Some background here, though: basically, Rule 5 picks like Veal are required to stay on their new teams' major league rosters the entire year. The only exception occurs when a player goes on the DL, after which he is allowed to "rehab" for several weeks in the minors. 

I'm not blaming Huntington or the Pirates for any of this. They are simply trying to do their best with the tools available to them, and since other teams also use fake DL trips to protect Rule 5 picks, the Pirates should do it too. But the fact that there is any need for these phantom DL stints to take place proves that the system is broken. At least as I understand it, the Rule 5 draft is intended to prevent teams from hoarding major-league-ready talent in the minors. The Rule 5 draft should redistribute that talent to teams who don't have as much talent in the majors; that's why teams are required to keep Rule 5 picks on their roster the entire year.

In practice, though, teams often don't use Rule 5 picks on players who are genuinely ready, which means they essentially have to hide the player for the entire season. The fake rehabs are one way of doing that, but teams are also required to keep the player on their active roster for 90 days. If they don't, they have to keep him on their active roster the next year until 90 total days have been reached.

The idea of hiding a player on the bench, in the bullpen or in the minors is antithetical to the spirit of the Rule 5 draft, which is supposed to put the best possible players on the field by preventing talent-rich teams from stockpiling too many talented, mature players. Veal himself might be happy as a Rule 5 draftee--I'm sure he got paid a lot more this year than he did in the minors--but for the game of baseball, his experience has been a perverse failure in two ways.

Star-divide

1) It has forced the Pirates to allow Veal, who plainly was not ready to pitch in the big leagues this year, to pitch in the big leagues. He racked up a 7.16 ERA, walked more than a batter an inning, and just generally looked clueless outside of one awesome relief appearance against the Dodgers in late September.

2) It has prevented Veal from developing as a pitcher. This year, between the majors and the minors, Veal pitched 54 2/3 innings. (He'll pick up a few more frames in the Arizona Fall League.) In 2008, he pitched nearly three times that many. Veal plainly has talent, and he just as plainly has serious flaws. It's probably true that he got better quality coaching from Joe Kerrigan in the majors than he would have gotten in the Cubs' minor league system, but how much better can he reasonably be expected to get if he doesn't pitch? 

So maybe Veal benefits here from getting paid, but only in a short-term, Pyrrhic-victory sort of way. If this season interrupted his development to the degree that it will end up preventing him from having a real major league career, then he loses. The Pirates benefit if Veal eventually learns to pitch better. But how does baseball benefit? This season was probably a net negative for Veal's development, and in the meantime the league had to put up with a guy pitching who blatantly shouldn't have been there. Veal pitching 16 innings wasn't a huge deal, but baseball still shouldn't want that to happen.

It's always cool when some obscure guy gets picked in the Rule 5 draft and immediately proves he belongs--Dan Uggla and Joakim Soria come to mind. But those cases are few and far between, and Veal's DL trips just prove the Pirates know what was obvious to the rest of us: that Veal wasn't ready for the majors. Which is dumb, and which isn't the sort of situation the Rule 5 draft is supposed to create. Veal's case was, as far as I can tell, the worst of the 2009 Rule 5 shenanigans. But then again, the only player in it who did much more than just get by was shortstop Everth Cabrera, who hit .255/.342/.361 and ran like the wind for the Padres. And this is the second straight year the Pirates have had a Rule 5'er rotting in their bullpen--last year it was Evan Meek, who was actually allowed into some high-leverage situations before a trade with Tampa effectively removed him from the Rule 5 process.

Some possible solutions:

1) Make the 40-man rosters a bit smaller, say 38 players or so. This would widen the pool of genuinely ready players available in the draft. Unfortunately, I don't think the union would ever go for this.

2) Currently, a team must pay $50,000 to the old team to select its player, and if the player doesn't cut it, he can eventually be offered back to the old team for $25,000. Raise that $50,000 to an amount that wouldn't be completely trivial for a major league team--perhaps about $400,000. Then give $50,000 to the team from which the player is being selected and put the other $350,000 in the revenue sharing pool. (This last bit prevents poor teams from selling off players for cash.) This raises the penalty for getting a Rule 5 pick wrong, meaning flubbing a Rule 5 pick would no longer be the no-lose proposition for a team.

3) This is Azibuck's idea. Allow the new team to pick the player in December, then keep him in the minors until mid-June. After that, he has to stay on the 25-man the rest of the season, or be offered back.

4) Just do away with rehab assignments for Rule 5 players. 

1 recs  |  Comment 19 comments |

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It was

An absolute sham, there’s no doubt about that. I do think it’s tricky in a way because it is a “tool” to weasel more talent as a small-market squad, but it does do a disservice to a large majority of the players taken. I don’t know if I really completely agree with any of the four solutions either, so I’m not exactly sure what the “answer” is.

In other news, the AFL is going well for the Pirates so far. Tabata went 1-2 yesterday with a SB and was on base like four times — in AFL the home team has to get player of game, and it was Tabata. Today Veal threw two shutout innings with 3 K and no BB. Moskos threw an inning with 1 IP and 1 K. Friday went 0-4 with 2 RBI yesterday.

I also talked to my friend, who works for the MLB and is covering the event each and every day, who said the two most impressive hitters he has seen so far are Tabata and Stanton (Florida).

D’Arnaud also went 1-5 tonight with a CS, but my friend said he looked good.

mlbfallball.com in case you want to follow the Arizona Fall League.

by Slizeezyc on Oct 15, 2009 1:44 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Today Veal threw two shutout innings with 3 K and no BB.

He also threw 14 of 18 pitches for strikes.

So we weaseled Veal away from the Cubbies? Put it on the Aramis tab. If we slip another 15 former Cubs like Veal through with bogus DL stints, we’ll be halfway to being even.

by WTM on Oct 15, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eh, the vast majority of the talent picked in this year’s Rule 5 was marginal to begin with. The only remotely good prospects even beforehand were Everth Cabrera and Veal, and even then Veal was a long shot because of multiple seasons of horrible command.

You mention in the previous article that Chris Shelton and Jose Bautista may have had their development hurt, but to me that says more about the Littlefield regime than the draft itself. No other team on the planet would have left that much unprotected. Teams are getting much smarter with managing the 40 man that it’s just pure ground beef going into this thing with maybe one or two gems that are usually clear in the first couple of picks.

The idea of keeping the Rule 5 picks in the minors until June isn’t bad.

by Adam Reynolds on Oct 15, 2009 2:43 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It's worth remembering...

…that this was one of the first Rule 5 drafts under the new eligibility rules. Compared to the old system, players now have an extra year before becoming eligible for the draft, which means that the first three or so years’ worth of classes were inevitably going to be weaker, due to the absence of prospects who would otherwise have been eligible.

by Vlad on Oct 15, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Vlad

I bet you’re already doing research seeing who the Pirates should have a shot at for the next Rule V draft.

by patthatt on Oct 15, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Amusingly enough...

…I actually started working on projected 40-man rosters earlier this week.

by Vlad on Oct 15, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would expect all ensuing draft classes to be weaker

than under the old rules not just the first few.

by WestCoastBuc on Oct 15, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sort of.

All post-change drafts are theoretically going to be weaker than pre-change drafts (as there’s less likelihood of a catastrophic error in evaluation with players who are a year closer to the majors), but the period immediately after the change created even weaker-than-expected classes because teams had planned out roster strategies according to the old rules, and as such were unexpectedly able to protect a greater number of borderline prospects (insofar as there were X number of top prospects they had planned on protecting and held out open spots to protect, who no longer needed to be protected). This extra roster capacity could be expected to persist (in diminished – and diminishing – form) for the few seasons thereafter.

by Vlad on Oct 15, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How about they just become minor league FAs?

How about they just become minor league FAs and let them sign whre they want/can? Any process that prevents the player from getting a chance somewhere else hurts the player. Making the team pick him keep him where he might not belong hurts both the team and the player. Just let him go free!

As for what the Pirates did, glad to see NH knows how to work the system.

by zogger on Oct 15, 2009 7:57 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Veal is the top lefty in the system right now..

His stuff is better than any of our other lefties prospects and ML’ers. If he throws strikes he is at worst a #2 starter.

by aso513 on Oct 15, 2009 12:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If you are a prospect not on the 40 man roster

I expect you feel the organization doesn’t really have you in its plans if you are anywhere near the bigs.

The Pirates have obviously taken a special interest in Meek and Veal. I think that if an organization takes a special interest in a player, they are going to have more of a chance to make it on the big league team. That really seems to be the spirit of the Rule 5 draft anyway.

I’m hoping it works out for Veal. If he can get it together, he’s got a chance to be a great pitcher.

by MarkInDallas on Oct 15, 2009 12:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i have no problem with this

The rules were manipulated. However, in regards to stopping his development I have to disagree. Making adjustments to a pitcher during the season doesn’t always appear to be the best way. Look at ohlie at the beginning of the season and Hart at the end. Hart said himself it is tough changing mechanics mid season. Veal was struggling in the cubs system and they didn’t think highly enough to protect him. I think this season could save his career. This whole season the bucs spent rebooting him during bullpen sessions. They gave him minimal chance to go out and forget what he was learning. They took it step by step creating a foundation that may or may not work.
I do think it was needed If he is ever going to stick around in the majors. Hopefully kerrigan accomplished what he set out for and veal can grow in the fall league.

"Everybody panic! If you have a small child, use it as a shield! They love tender meat."

by BattlinBucs on Oct 15, 2009 8:03 PM EDT via mobile reply actions   0 recs

Donnie Veal

I have no doubt Veal was not legitimately on the DL in most cases, but I would offer 2 comments. First, does anyone think Veal was the only undeserving player in MLB on the DL? Second, it wasn’t like we replaced him with some stud. We still had Capps out there blowing saves and posting a 7.00 ERA.

by Batavia on Oct 15, 2009 8:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Veal's DL stint was bogus but...

no more so than Manny Ramirez going on the DL after being suspended for using PED’s. Since when is being out of game shape considered an injury? There are a lot of stupid rules/ideas in place to protect small market teams wich actually work against them. The ellias rankings and draft slots are a couple that come to mind but I don’t believe that the rule 5 system is one. You said the intent of the system is to prevent large market teams from hoarding talent in the upper levels of the minors. I think the rule 5 does that to some degree. Rarely does a team believing they can contend select a rule 5 player because they don’t want to waste the roster space on the 25. Small market teams generally are the ones attempting to strike gold through rule 5.

I don’t believe any of the suggestions above will improve the system and most will serve to work against small market teams.

Suggestion #1: Decreasing the 40 man to 38 will hinder teams that strive to compete through flooding the farm system with talent so they can replace players on the big team after they leave via FA. Sounds familiar right. The Bucs are attempting to do this through the draft signing several high upside players to over slot deals. At some point they will have to place all of these players on the 40 man. I know things are changing but until recently large market clubs were more than willing to forfit draft choices in order to sign FA’s. These same clubs are not afraid to trade prospects for major league players year in and year out. It would seem to me that small market clubs need the roster space more than large market clubs.

Suggestion #2: Raising the penalty. Again this hurts small market teams more tham large market teams since the small markets teams are more likely to risk trying to keep a player on the roster. Raising the penaly may deter a team like the Pirates from taking a chance on an Evan Meek if the penalty was $400,00 but I sincerely doubt it would deter the Yankees.

Suggestion #3: This suggestion is interesting but I’m not sure it does anything to improve the system. It will serve to help the player who is selected and in this context I think it has some promise. However, it does give a team hoping to contend time to evaluate whether or not they have a legitmate shot so in this context I think it will benefit large market teams more than small market. The aspect of player protection is an interesting one and of all the suggestions this one has the most promise.

Suggestion #4: Abandoning the system benefits large market teams through eliminating an avenue for small market teams to acquire talent at minimal cost.

I agree that some should be done to prevent draftees from losing valuable development time but I would take the current system over all of those listed above.

by Slick1 on Oct 15, 2009 8:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

no more so than Manny Ramirez going on the DL after being suspended for using PED’s

They would’ve done it for his bad knee if he could’ve remembered which one it was.

by WTM on Oct 15, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bogus? I think not.

I’m a little vexed that you would think the groin strain was bogus. Did you see his wife? She’s hot. I would get groin strain as well.

by formerdraftpick on Oct 16, 2009 10:24 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

90 Day Rule

Was Veal active on the Bucs roster for 90 days in 2009? I believe there’s a rule requiring teams to have Rule V draftees actually active on the ML roster for 90 days in the season – not on the DL or on rehab assignment. This was the compromise to try and avoid bogus DL moves. If Veal was not active for 90 days he has to remain on the ML roster at the beginning of next year for as many days as it would take to get to 90.

by stork24 on Oct 16, 2009 5:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He was active well over 90.

by WTM on Oct 16, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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