Perry Hill Speaks Out
by Charlie on Oct 21, 2009 9:54 PM EDT
64 comments
I'm honestly not overly interested in the scene that has unfolded around Perry Hill's departure, but since the Post-Gazette has another item on it today and Buster Olney is running with it...
As dramas go, I find this one to be pretty thin gruel, and it's very surprising to see that ESPN.com thinks the loss of a first-base coach is interesting. Right off the top, the reason this is still in the news is that Hill has spoken up to dispute Neal Huntington's comment that Hill "has decided he does not want to coach." Hill says he does want to coach, just not with the Pirates right now.
It's a distinction without a difference, even if we grant that Huntington meant that Hill doesn't want to coach at all, which isn't at all clear from what Huntington actually said. The fact is that the Pirates have Hill under contract next year, so by leaving them behind, he is effectively opting not to coach. If there was anything wrong with Huntington's comments, it's that they were a little bit ambiguous.
I'm not sure I understand why this story would be national news. A coach refusing to honor his contract is, I suppose, unusual, but since Hill is just a first-base coach, I'm not sure why any non-Pirate fan would care.
It's unfortunate that the Pirates lost him--he has a good reputation. But it's not really clear to me that his loss will be felt much. Hill's greatest value lies in his reputation as an infield coach, and it's true that the Pirates made big strides in their defense last year. But most of that improvement was in the outfield, not the infield, as good defenders like Andrew McCutchen, Nyjer Morgan and Brandon Moss (and, if you believe the numbers, even Lastings Milledge) replaced mediocre or outright bad ones like Jason Bay and Nate McLouth. Hill may well deserve some credit for Andy LaRoche's good play at third, and the Delwyn Young experiment at second turned out better than I thought it might have (although it was still pretty bad). But improvement in the infield was a small percentage of the overall improvement. Hill will be missed, but a coach is just a coach.
* * *
I'm on the road tomorrow through next Tuesday. I suspect I will have some internet access, but I'm not sure how much, so please hang tight if the updates aren't as regular as you'd like.
0 recs |
64 comments
| Add comment
|
Email
Print
Comments
This is a weird post, Charlie
Both Freddy and Jack had great defensive seasons while here, and both credited Perry. LaRoche went from being a terrible hitter who was worse in the field to being one of the better defensive 3Bs in the league – insofar as he brought value to the team (2.6 WAR), it came from his defense (which was good enough that they wouldn’t think to sit him even when he was hitting .200 for the middle months of the season). Former players have sent Perry their Gold Gloves, for Christ’s sake. To refer to him dismissively as “just a first base coach” is, frankly, disingenuous.
As for your defense of NH, it’s just pathetic. NH’s comments are true in the sense that a dumped guy saying, “She just doesn’t want to date right now” is telling the truth. No, she doesn’t want to date you. I think it’s noteworthy that the guy would rather do nothing than work for the Pirates – most baseball people hunger to be around the game, such that even when managers and GMs are fired before their contracts expire, they usually try to at least scout while the contract runs out. The fact that he went to the press to make clear that he thinks NH was misleading people is significant.
All that said, I don’t want to make too big a deal of this. The Bucs really wanted Hill back, for obvious reasons. Hill didn’t want to come back, for reasons that are less clear, but understandable. The biggest deal is that the list of people that NH has pissed off* is now one longer (off the top of my head, Torres, Boras, Eyechart, Hinske, Sano’s agent, and now Hill; I’m leaving off Gorzo and Snell for obvious reasons). GMs are not always well-loved, but I wonder if this is going to become an issue at some point.
- Or whatever – left bad feelings, pissed off, phrase it however you want. These are professional relationships that went badly enough that the public heard about it.
by JRoth95 on Oct 21, 2009 10:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Torres had a problem with Littlefield
Boras had problems with Coonelly, stemming from Coonelly’s MLB days
Mientkiewicz was confused about not receiving a contract offer (then managed 20 PA in ’09)
Hinkse wanted more playing time or a chance to play with a contender
Plummer praised Huntington and said he would definitely do business with him in the future
I’m not sure there’s a pattern of Huntington hate here.
Pittsburgh Lumber Co.
http://mvn.com/pittsburghlumberco
by MBandi on Oct 21, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boras
You know what, you’re right – since it was a player signing, I was remembering it as NH, but it was Coonley with whom the rhetoric got heated.
DM was, I suspect, not merely “confused” when NH told him that the Piarets wanted him back, then never made an offer. He was displeased, and made that clear. We don’t care about him as such, but he’s another person who’s gone public with bad dealings with NH.
Hinske said he “hated” it here, and made it clear that he felt he’d been lied to. I don’t think “This GM will lie to you to get you to sign a contract” is the message we want to send.
Plummer… let’s just say that I’m not exactly taking Plummer’s PBC Blog comments as definitive. What happened was ugly, and the Plummer/NH (moreso the Plummer/Gayo) dynamic was not a good one.
Look, it may just be blips. But the number of public disagreements my preferred GM has is 0. 1 or 2 a year doesn’t alarm me. But I’m aware of it.
One thing I’ll note is that DK has characterized NH as being vocal and honest – IOW, he probably speaks first and thinks later on occasion, and that may be all this is. Hopefully that’s all this is, and his overall dealings will show people around baseball that he’s trustworthy.
by JRoth95 on Oct 21, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1) F_ _ _ Hinske.
2) F_ _ _ “Dirty Doug.”
3) F _ _ _ Plummer, AND the horse he rode in on.
And your calling out of Charlie – who hosts the site, if you’ll remember, as “pathetic” is misplaced, but typical of your M.O. of being contrary/ pissy about nearly every post or reply on BD.
Spirited debate is one thing. Personally, I’ve agreed with many of the points you’ve made. But you’re “posting just to hear yourself post,” IMO.
Lighten the f_ _ _ up.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Oct 22, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OH NOES!!!!!
Eric Hinske is pissed at Huntington!! He was too crappy to earn playing time with a crappy team, so Huntington must have lied to him!!! We’ll never be able to sign someone like Hinske again!!! Whatever will we do!!!!
by WTM on Oct 22, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eric Hinske…possibly the worst player to win a ROY award.
by NastyNate82 on Oct 22, 2009 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Angel Barroa and Bobby Crosby would beg to differ.
by wickethewok on Oct 22, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hinske hit a HR every 106 ABs with the Pirates. With the Yankees he hit one every 12 ABs. That means that we should multiply all of the Pirate hitters’ HR totals by 8.83 to determine their real HR numbers. Garrett Jones hit 185 this year!
by ElDuce on Oct 22, 2009 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I looked for Mientkiewicz’s exact quote, but couldn’t find anything, other than him saying he was surprised he hadn’t heard from the Pirates. I know there is another article out there that I can’t find, though. Anyway, I know many fans think Mientkiewicz is the ultimate good guy, but I’m not sure that’s true. John Perrotto wrote during the spring:
However, his value as a leader is extremely questionable.
Mientkiewicz wasn’t universally liked in the clubhouse or by management nearly as much as was reported. Some of his teammates felt Mientkiewicz was a "me-first" player and there were some front-office types who concurred.
Hinske never said he was lied to, at least that I could find. This is the quote:
“I asked to be traded. I hated being in Pittsburgh,” he said, then quickly revised his verb choice. “Well, I didn’t hate it; I disliked being in Pittsburgh.”
“I thought I was going to play. I signed there to get at-bats. I wasn’t playing. If I was going to be a bench guy, I’d rather do it on a team that has a chance of going to the playoffs.”
Who knows what happened with Plummer, but he said publicly that he had no problems with Huntington.
Pittsburgh Lumber Co.
http://mvn.com/pittsburghlumberco
by MBandi on Oct 22, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I always took Hinske's quote to mean...
…that he signed with us under the assumption that he’d start, since we were a crappy team with an unsettled outfield. Not that he’d actually been promised a starting job.
by Vlad on Oct 22, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Eric Hinske had wanted to make 100+ starts
with the Pirates in the OF, then he should have lost about 10 kilos prior to reporting to spring training. Looking like you join Matt Capps at the buffet line every day doesn’t help your case, especially in a league that doesn’t have the DH.
Hinske will follow Dougie M and Craig Monroe quietly out of the league in another year or two.
by patthatt on Oct 22, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t Torres’ issues with the Pirates predate Huntington’s arrival?
The analogy to dating misses the point—if two people stop dating, they are both free to date other people. Hill’s decision not to come back to Pittsburgh is effectively a decision not to coach, since the Pirates have him under contract. And it’s not at all clear from the context of the quote that Huntington didn’t simply mean Hill just didn’t want to coach for the Pirates, anyway.
As for the “just a first-base coach,” you’re taking me out of context. I spent the next paragraph talking about his work with infielders. I only meant to contrast him with a manager or a star player or something, for whom this sort of schism would clearly be national news.
Sanchez certainly improved from 2008 to the Pirates portion of his 2009 season, but I’d be inclined to chalk that up to improved health, since his arm was visibly bothering him at the beginning of the 2009 season. As for Wilson… statistically, he barely improved. He was terrific in 2009, but he was terrific in 2008, too.
by Charlie on Oct 21, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The dating analogy wasn’t about employment contracts, it was about honesty. Look, it’s not as if we’re speculating about whether Hill thought NH was misrepresenting him – he made a special point of announcing it. Constructing ways in which the plain English reading of NH’s comments don’t conflict with the Actual Meaning of them is pointless. NH – for understandable reasons – tried to downplay the situation. Hill just rented a billboard to announce “I’d rather be dateless for a year than have to go out with you.” Clearly, he’s not happy with the Pirates.
As for the context, obviously I read the part where you talk about (and downplay) his fielding coaching. But before I commented, I went back and made sure my initial impression was legit – you emphasized the first base coach a couple times before mentioning his real role (is there a less important in-game coach than 1B? Don’t think so). That said, I take your point – it’s odd that Buster Olney would pick it up, especially since Kerrigan – our other guru-type coach – happily re-upped, so it’s not like that’s a trend. But you also don’t seem to think it should be a story for Pirates fans, which was part of what stuck in my craw. No one cared when Rich Donnelly went home; people can distinguish between contributing coaches and non-contributors, and Hill contributed.
I do agree that health was Freddy’s best help, but both he and Jack raved about Hill, so I think it’s fair to give him at least some credit for their good work. I didn’t mention Cedeno because he was here briefly, but he fielded better than he has for us as well.
by JRoth95 on Oct 21, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you expect
A player to say, “yeah Perry Hill sucks — he’s nothing special”?
I’m not trying to say Perry Hill was/is not a good coach, but it’s not like the players are going to call out a current coach and poop on him.
Regardless I’m not making judgments about NH because A) this story is sketchy at best B) I have nearly no facts, so I can’t get out my jump to conclusions board and know why Perry Hill does not want to coach, nor know what was actually said.
As for another point I’ve seen about people who speak out seem to get tossed from the organization. Frankly, I don’t think any organization wants to keep around a bunch of guys who don’t agree with the general process going on. Isn’t that just logical? You talk crap on the person who pays and employs you, that generally will not end well. And, furthermore, what’s a current player going to know about building a team? A player wants to win now/play now — he doesn’t care about 2-3 years away, especially a veteran.
Again, JRoth I support you in theory because you disagree with EVERYTHING and have that certain viewpoint that stirs up discussion, but in reality I think you just like to argue for the sake of arguing 9 times out of 10, which doesn’t help your cause a lot of the time.
by Slizeezyc on Oct 22, 2009 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard the Parrot hates Neal, too. Something about a larger caliber t-shirt cannon that the front office was supposed to provide, but welched on.
by maguro on Oct 21, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In fairness
That’s really on Coonley. That cheapskate.
by JRoth95 on Oct 21, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's worth remembering...
…that both Jack and Freddy had GG-caliber seasons before Hill showed up.
by Vlad on Oct 22, 2009 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Please. This Perry Hill saga is the biggest nontroversy since Dougie M.
by Adam Reynolds on Oct 22, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nate McLouth
So Nate McLouth is mediocre or outright bad on his defense ? Let’s see……Nate won a Gold Glove, I guess he didn’t deserve that reward. I don’t think that Nate deserves to be classified as mediocre let alone outright bad & certainly doesn’t need to be used in the same sentence as Jason Bay. Nate is one of the best defensive CF in baseball right now !!
by baseballneedsasalarycap on Oct 22, 2009 3:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah..He's really not one of the best defensive CF's
Although his UZR did improve from bad to average this year.
by MarkInDallas on Oct 22, 2009 4:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nate is one of the best defensive CF in baseball right now
I don’t think the stats or the scouts would agree with that.
by wickethewok on Oct 22, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And, you're correct, he did not deserve the Gold Glove
Considering he had a UZR/150 of -14. It’s one thing to catch the ball when it’s hit to you. It’s another thing to catch up to the ball before it falls. Both are important in defense, but only the first one counts in Gold Glove votes. Oh yeah, and you have to get everyone’s attention with the bat to be considered as well. So no, Gold Gloves don’t mean a whole lot as far as being a good indicator of a superior defensive player.
by MarkInDallas on Oct 22, 2009 5:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think we really know what the main issue is here.
Could be a lot of things. Could be Hill was truly unhappy Huntington traded away his infield. Could be he felt he was going to need to put in a lot of extra work with the current situation and the FO wasn’t willing to pony up the dough he thought it should be worth. Could be something else we’re not privy to.
I have to think there’s something more that we don’t know exactly. It’s pretty clear that Andy is moving to 2B and Alvarez will be arriving soon. Cedeno’s no Jack Wilson, but he’s not horrible either. He’s just average defensively.
There’s something more to it than being unhappy they traded the previous infield.
by MarkInDallas on Oct 22, 2009 5:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder what would’ve happened if the Pirates kept Jack and Freddy and they both got hurt for the year in June. Maybe Hill would’ve quit.
by WTM on Oct 22, 2009 7:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
MarkinDallas is on the right track. There are other dynamics going on.
As for NH, what is he going to say? “Perry thinks our organization stinks and doesn’t want to coach for us anymore.” or “Perry is mad at me and wants to play somewhere else”. I think NH said something vague to avoid any embarassment to Hill or the Bucs.
As for Hill’s impact, I think it was important but not critical. He helped LaRoche but then Andy wasn’t a bad 3B before he came to us. I think as Andy got some confidence he played better. As for Young, I think Hill gets all the credit for making him able to play 2B at all.
I don’t think Hill helped Wilson or Sanchez much. They were who they were.
I agree that our OF defense improvement was an impact. I look forward to 2010 when Jones is at 1B and Tabata is out in LF. We will have one of the better OF defenses in baseball next year.
by zogger on Oct 22, 2009 7:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Young played 397 games at 2nd base in the Dodger organization from 02-05 and then was moved to the outfield in 06. After three years of only OF duty maybe he just needs to shake the rust off.
The 06 Las Vegas team had 4 second basemen with 20 plus games played so his move may have been more because they were heavy at the position (or it could be he wasn’t very good)
by MDBuc on Oct 22, 2009 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was moved to the OF by the Dodgers...
…because he sucked at 2B. He needs to do much more than return to his prior level of ability if he wants to be a viable ML 2B.
by Vlad on Oct 22, 2009 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I applaud your optimism at least.
by MrPedriqueIfYoureNasty on Oct 22, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tabata is our future RF (IMO)...
he’s not projected to have plus speed because of his build but he does have a plus arm that is perfect for RF. For what it’s worth.
by Slick1 on Oct 22, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
zOMG
then NH will trade them all AWAY!
:p
by BlindSquirrel on Oct 22, 2009 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Surprised everyone is so fired up on this one
I thought Hill did a good job.
Also, it was clear to me that:
1. He did not want to return to the Pirates based on his late-season actions and NH’s vague statement.
Was it that he feels betrayed? Was it that he thinks next year’s team is going to be bad? No clue.
The interesting part is NH’s action. He didn’t have to exercise the option. He also could have released Hill from the contract and allowed him to coach elsewhere.
I wonder if compensation is the reason. It’s a definite hardball move.
I wonder if that’ll backfire when NH pursues other coaches and free agents over the next few years.
That being said, I probably would have done the same thing.
by Bernie6666 on Oct 22, 2009 10:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He’s held in extraordinarily high regard within the sport, some call him a “guru”.
Maybe that’s also how he sees himself, in which case he probably feels that he has a reputation to protect. I wonder if he believed that 2009 was the rebuilding year, and 2010 would be the breakout year, rather than another rebuilding year. If so, he’ s maybe not such a smart guru.
....You'll be able to spit nails, kid. You're gonna eat lightning and you're gonna crap thunder....
by chodan11 on Oct 22, 2009 10:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think that part of the deal...
…is that he was never all that invested in the idea of being here in the first place. It took more than a year of lobbying to get him to come for 2009. That’s why we named our 1B coach so late in 2008: We were holding the spot open for Hill.
I’m sure he acted like a pro while he was here, but if he was so reluctant in the beginning, then it wouldn’t take all that much to make him want to leave.
by Vlad on Oct 22, 2009 10:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That’s an excellent point. Makes me wonder if his thoughts of leaving actually originated around June or July.
....You'll be able to spit nails, kid. You're gonna eat lightning and you're gonna crap thunder....
by chodan11 on Oct 22, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NO PERRY HILL ? I'M DONE WITH THIS TEAM !
"Baseball is better than football. Think about it, eighty degrees, a cold beer and a short-sleeve shirt is better than 30 degrees, a hip flask and six layers of clothes under a lap blanket. Take your pick: suntan or frostbite. " - Thomas Boswell
by Ketcham Bruce on Oct 22, 2009 11:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
YEAH!
I’m so done with this team that I’m gonna keep coming to this blog and others and say after anyone is traded or leaves that I’M DONE WITH THIS TEAM! Just to make sure that people get it.
by IAPiratesFan on Oct 22, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well. . .
I’m so done with this team I just ordered season tickets so I can not go as a protest. I’m going to order all the Pirates TV options I can and not watch those either.
I’m also going to buy scads of Pirates gear to not wear and talk to everyone I see about the Pirates so they’ll know it’s a good fan they are losing.
That will teach them.
by Phantaskippy on Oct 23, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HERE HERE !
"Baseball is better than football. Think about it, eighty degrees, a cold beer and a short-sleeve shirt is better than 30 degrees, a hip flask and six layers of clothes under a lap blanket. Take your pick: suntan or frostbite. " - Thomas Boswell
by Ketcham Bruce on Oct 23, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
People claim baseball is boring, but I point out to them that in the average pro football game there are only about 12-13 minutes of actual action, the rest of the time is standing around or getting up after falling down. I hate the end of baseball season because I find football to be boring. I can’t watch an entire game, unless it’s the Steelers.
....You'll be able to spit nails, kid. You're gonna eat lightning and you're gonna crap thunder....
by chodan11 on Oct 23, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. I think when I turned 50 my brain changed. Maybe some brain cells died or something.
....You'll be able to spit nails, kid. You're gonna eat lightning and you're gonna crap thunder....
by chodan11 on Oct 23, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think those breaks are why Americans love football and Baseball. breaks in action allow us to talk and eat, watch multiple games at once. You know third down is important, 2 out at bats are big deals, something is going to happen.
Hockey and Soccer you never know when the big action will occur, and the unfolding strategies aren’t as easy to decipher
Baseball on TV puts me to sleep. If I am restless and need to sleep a good Baseball game will put me out every time.
by Phantaskippy on Oct 24, 2009 2:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, wrong post.
I meant to ask someone else that. I agree for the most part with what you said. I like high school football because it seems faster pace. Less standing around and waiting. It seems like in the NFL and college, they spend a lot of time standing around so that the TV channel can cram some more commercials in. I’ve just always liked baseball because no matter what point in the game it is, you can always come back and win. Even if you’re down 8-2 in the bottom of the 9th with two outs.
by IAPiratesFan on Oct 24, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm so outraged...
…that I pledge not to attend or watch a single Pirates game for the rest of the year!
That’ll teach ’em.
by Vlad on Oct 26, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah... internet logic
"Baseball is better than football. Think about it, eighty degrees, a cold beer and a short-sleeve shirt is better than 30 degrees, a hip flask and six layers of clothes under a lap blanket. Take your pick: suntan or frostbite. " - Thomas Boswell
by Ketcham Bruce on Oct 22, 2009 2:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is absolutely the right move. I read NH statement about “not wanting to coach” to imply that he is contractually bound and doesn’t currently have another MLB option for 2010 other than coaching the Pirates. He could always coach amateur ball for a year if that’s what he wants, or he could find a suitor willing to give up value in trade in exchange for waiving the option.
The Pirates have spent the better part of 2 decades giving away the meager resources they had, be it trade deadline giveaways or signability picks which benefited teams drafting behind them. Screw Hill — he didn’t have to sign with the club option, and he didn’t have to walk away. Better yet — he didn’t have to sign at all in the first place. Don’t want to work for a rebuilding team? Why on earth sign with the Pirates?
by chicos_pants on Oct 22, 2009 2:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m amazed . . . well, not really . . . at how little attention the option has gotten. Hill is contractually obligated to coach for the Pirates next year. If they’d kept Sanchez and exercised his option for 2010, and he refused to play for them and expected them to release him so he could sign elsewhere, would people think that was OK? If not, then why is Hill’s refusal to honor his legal obligation OK? And let’s not forget, the Pirates have gone further than they were under any obligation to do by offering to increase the money. It’s just a measure of how eagerly a large portion of the team’s fans are searching for an excuse to rip management that NH is being made out as the bad guy here.
by WTM on Oct 22, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Players in various sports get villified by fans for holding out when displeased with their contracts. In some cases it’s the only leverage they have and they want to either sign or force a deal with another team that will meet their demands.
The Pirates have in effect renegotiated with Hill beyond their obligation and demonstrated good faith. If the NH granted this request without compensation, what would stop Hill from signing within the division and potentially putting the Pirates at an even greater competitive disadvantage?
by chicos_pants on Oct 22, 2009 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just gettin' better and better
Hill “clarifies” things again.
“I’m just not going to coach this year,” Hill said. “At some point in time. . . , I would like to coach again.”
This latest version is, of course, exactly what NH said. So now how do we twist this one into an excuse to rip NH.
by WTM on Oct 22, 2009 9:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Huntington's abusive negotiating tactics...
…sapped all of Hill’s strength and will, to the point that he can’t even stand to watch baseball right now.
Eventually, after therapy, he may return to coaching as a shell of the man he once was.
by Vlad on Oct 22, 2009 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wednesday on Dr. Phil:
Perry and Neal sit down and talk about their “issues”. Much weeping and gnashing of teeth, followed by a tearful reconcilliation and an awkward man-hug to close things out.
It’s sure to be must-see TV.
by maguro on Oct 22, 2009 10:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he is.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Oct 24, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no ‘man-hugging’ in baseball.
....You'll be able to spit nails, kid. You're gonna eat lightning and you're gonna crap thunder....
by chodan11 on Oct 24, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hill is considered a Guru, look at his history, his longest stint was 4 years with the Marlins before he retired.
You can’t stay in one place too long if you want the hype. Coming back into the league with the Pirates was great for him, if we look bad who cares, if we look at all better the credit goes to him and his guru status is back.
He stays a second year he risks that with a bunch of young players. I don’t blame the guy if all he is doing is looking out for his reputation. It’s all coaches have.
That said who knows, maybe his coaching style involves forging relationships with his players and he took it personally when they all got traded, or he just doesn’t want to go through that again, or maybe he just doesn’t want to deal with a bunch of kids, he’d rather work with veterans. There could be all sorts of reasons.
It’s news because the Pirates right now are like the Bengals a few years back, our trades and embarrassments are as note worthy as any questionable behavior from a Bengal used to be. So a respected coach refusing to coach for the Pirates, that’s news. It won’t go away till the wins show up, then everyone will talk about how the wins came out of nowhere and everyone will jump on board the team and wonder how it all happened.
by Phantaskippy on Oct 23, 2009 1:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Contract
I think some people have overplayed the option on his contract. This is certainly not a defense of Hill. But he didn’t like the option. He chose to retire. That’s his right.
NH chose not to let him out of the contract. That’s his right.
As far as I’m concerned, everybody acted reasonably.
If Hill were holding press conferences blasting the FO for not letting him out of the contract, I’d feel differently.
But coaches “retire” all the time to avoid the final year of a contract and then return when it’s expired. It’s just part of the money-driven sports world. It doesn’t make it ethically right. But there is little the Pirates can do.
For example, I suspect Bill Cowher would have preferred to have been released from his contract. I also suspect that he’ll unretire this year.
by Bernie6666 on Oct 23, 2009 10:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t have a problem with Hill retiring if that’s what he wants to do. I only have a problem with people claiming NH is evil for insisting on enforcing the team’s contract rights. He’d be an idiot not to do that.
by WTM on Oct 23, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or
if he was so traumatized by the loss of Frick and Frack he can spend 2010 in therapy.
by chicos_pants on Oct 23, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could just be that he's a prickly guy, too.
If so, no crime in that. It’s just the way things work sometimes.
Johnny Sain was one of the best pitching coaches ever, but he never coached for a team for more than a year or two, because he’d get on the nerves of someone in management and they’d tell him to hit the road.
by Vlad on Oct 26, 2009 12:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Join the community and dive in!
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
