Pirates Claim Justin Thomas From Mariners

by Charlie on Oct 30, 2009 8:19 PM EDT Comment 29 comments

Like Vlad in the comments to a fanshot on this subject (and thanks for taking care of that for me; it's been a busy workday), I wonder how long newly acquired lefty reliever Justin Thomas will still be on the 40-man roster. The Pirates claimed him off waivers from the Mariners, and while he's a fairly interesting player, he might not need to be on any team's 40-man right now.

Thomas was drafted in 2005, but he was already 21 when drafted, so he was a bit old for most of his levels. Still, he zipped through the low minors with very good strikeout rates. Unfortunately, he doesn't have blazing stuff--he relies very heavily on his slider and on changing speeds with his fastball, which leads me to guess that his solid numbers at the low levels had more to do with maturity and with low-minors hitters' general inability to hit breaking balls than with talent.

Thomas took a long time to adjust to AA--his entire 2007 season there was awful--and he had a terrible season at Class AAA Tacoma in 2009, walking 40 batters in 60 innings in his first full season as a reliever. Maybe the Pirates' scouts see something here they like, and since Thomas throws tons of breaking balls he might someday be an adequate LOOGY (lefty one-out guy) in the bigs. But that seems unlikely without more time in the minors to work things out, and "adequate LOOGY" isn't the sort of upside one wants from a guy who's taking up a spot on the 40-man without contributing immediately. So Vlad might be right that at some point this winter, the Bucs will quietly try to send Thomas to the minors and hope no one claims him. He'd be a nice player to have at Indianapolis--they need lefties right now.

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A little unrelated administrative note: I'd really, really appreciate it if people would stop using "PBC Blog" as a slur. I'm certainly not going to ban or officially warn anyone for that alone, but it's happened enough here that it's 1) a cliche and 2) it seems very strange to attack posters for having knee-jerk opinions by knee-jerkingly telling them to go to the PBC Blog. There are better ways to disagree, including either ignoring the post that bothers you or substantively responding to it.

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Thomas

Thomas seems like a low-risk investment, and apparently scouts see some value. But if he’s really worthwhile, wouldn’t the needy Mariners have kept him? And aren’t the Pirates kind of spinning their wheels here. I think a lefty specialist would be pretty far down the priority list.

by NY Jim on Oct 31, 2009 8:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not to mention the fact that powerhouses like the Royals and Orioles, and the Indians with their massive bullpen problems, passed on him.

by WTM on Oct 31, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Passing?

I could be wrong, but I think that since the Royals and Os are in the American League with the Ms, we got first shot at him. Anyway, it would be nice if this guy is one of those pleasant surprises that will make the former team want to kick themselves. Pretty low risk move by the Bucs. I like it.

by PghPinstripes on Oct 31, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thomas was waived by Seattle. The AL teams got first shot at him.

by WTM on Oct 31, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure about KC or Cleveland...

…but the O’s are downsizing their roster right now. They just declined Mora’s option and waived three guys last week (including Rich Hill).

by Vlad on Oct 31, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If he can throw strikes, which is a big if, a change to the NL (weaker overall hitting league due to to the DH), sometimes makes a big difference.

Worth a shot…

by God Loves on Oct 31, 2009 8:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

a reliever with 40BB in 60INN!!!!…is not a reliver

by jfpp on Oct 31, 2009 10:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Very limited downside.....

Many teams have passed on guys who turned out to be tremendously productive, so not sure that should be the barometer. Throw some more sh*t against the wall and see if anything works. Why not?

by dtoddwin on Oct 31, 2009 11:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Thomas’ history shows that he might be effective if he’s limited to pitching exclusively against LH hitters. That may be worth a try. The big problem is that Russell does the worst job of getting the platoon advantage that I’ve ever seen.

by WTM on Oct 31, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Only problem with adding to the 40 man roster...

is that there are still quite a few moves that need to be made in the next 20 days to set the roster for the Rule V draft. I guess that they may try to sneak him through waivers in the next couple of weeks…and option him to Indy.

by Thunder on Oct 31, 2009 12:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Or they may have to waive Virgil Vasquez. Bummer.

by WTM on Oct 31, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If only...

waiving VV was the only move they need to make ;)

by Thunder on Oct 31, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

40 Man

Are there any prospects that will need to be added to the 40 man roster, so they are not available in the rule 5 draft?

by succos12 on Nov 1, 2009 8:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

In arguably descending order of significance:

Brad Lincoln
Gorkys Hernandez
Bryan Morris
Ramon Aguero
Shelby Ford
Jim Negrych

There’s probably one or two I’m forgetting. I’d draw the line after Aguero.

by WTM on Nov 1, 2009 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think you're forgetting much.

Unless I’m forgetting them, too.

Kris Watts is the only other real candidate to be selected (and I’d have him ahead of at least Negrych and maybe Ford as well). The rest is more-or-less expendable guys like Kyle Bloom, Juan Mateo, Mike Dubee, Jamie Romak, etc.

by Vlad on Nov 1, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Mike Felix is eligible for Rule 5, too

by WTM on Nov 1, 2009 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Are you saying you would add all 4 of them to the 40 man? If so, who would you cut?

by succos12 on Nov 2, 2009 9:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We'd need to cut five guys...

…since we’re at 39 and we’re currently carrying two guys on the 60-day DL.

As far as I’m concerned, the five most expendable guys remaining on the roster are probably Bixler, Cruz, Claggett, Lerud, and whichever of Hacker, Karstens, and VV rings your bell the least. Though if you swapped in Pearce or Sues or Jackson or Thomas, it wouldn’t be the end of the world, either.

by Vlad on Nov 2, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Guys I'd cut

In order:

Bixler
Cruz
Lerud
Virgil
Claggett
Hacker
Karstens
Jackson

Wouldn’t bother me to lose any of these guys.

If the team signs a corner player, Pearce is a candidate to be cut.

by WTM on Nov 2, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You still have optimism about Sues?

I kind of wrote him off after the velo drop this year.

by Vlad on Nov 2, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I read or heard that it was up late in the year.

by WTM on Nov 2, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ah.

Good news, if so. I hadn’t heard that.

by Vlad on Nov 2, 2009 8:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What a list!!!

When I was looking at the 40 man it appeared like it was going to be a much tougher decision. Now that someone has put all of the crap together in one list it seams like it is going to be a pretty easy decisions. I long for the days when the pirates actually have to make tough roster decisions.

by succos12 on Nov 2, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I went through the same thing last week

And WTM talked me down. I still suspect that we’ll end up regretting one of the cuts – all that manure, there’s gotta be a pony in there somewhere – but there’s certainly ample deadweight.

The frustrating thing (to me) is that I don’t feel like we’re cutting those guys for real talent – Lincoln aside, there’s not a single guy on WTM’s list who’s a high-odds major league starter (Gorkys does nothing for me; I know he’s been rated highly, but I’m just not feeling it). It’s just a fresh batch of manure in which to hunt for ponies.

by JRoth95 on Nov 2, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Gorkys has high odds of being a major leaguer.

Not necessarily even a starter, at this point, but any guy with his glove is going to log some time in the bigs.

Morris is on the other end of the spectrum – star-level ceiling, with a much lower chance of getting there.

by Vlad on Nov 2, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Does any of the WTM list (Cruz, Lerud, Claggett, etc.) even have the raw tools to not be a disaster in the MLB? (Like Ronald Belisario being able to throw 95 MPH, etc.)

by Adam Reynolds on Nov 2, 2009 9:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not really.

Bixler is probably an above-average runner, and Lerud has decent raw power for a catcher. Those are probably the best tools out of anybody on that list.

That said, Belisario didn’t have the same stuff with us that he did with the Dodgers, so youneverknow…

by Vlad on Nov 2, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree. Pearce could be useful, but that is about all. A pitcher’s stock is so volatile; probably one with good velocity 1-2 years ago is better than one who was never there. We’re pretty confident that Virgil Vazquez with his stuff doesn’t have upside of more than an emergency 7th starter/mop-up reliever, for example.

by Adam Reynolds on Nov 3, 2009 12:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs