Some idle free agency speculation

by escroll on Oct 8, 2009 3:35 PM EDT Comment 35 comments

Just for fun:

Is it possible that the buccos could sign Hideki Matsui? Seems a stretch, maybe, but he is a bit injury-prone. But let's say they did somehting like this:

Sign Matsui: 3 years, 25-30 million

Jack Wilson: 3 years, 10 Million

Freddy Sanchez: 3 years, 14 million

all that would bring the 2010 payroll to about 40 million, leaving plenty to do something about the bullpen. Might this not result in a pretty strong lineup? At least if Jones can keep it up(which I'll admit is a lot to bank on):

Cutch

Freddy

Jones

Alvarez

Matsui

Milledge

Doumit

Jack

Looks to me like no holes, and good defense everywhere except 3b and C. And this leaves a fairly solid bench. Could it happen? Any other free agents that would fit better? Please discuss.

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Matsui is a DH and nothing else. He was an awful fielder before he lost his ability to run, he would be a complete disaster at this point.

I wouldn’t even consider giving any of those guys 3 year deals at this point.

by ElDuce on Oct 8, 2009 4:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow, I just discovered Matsui didn’t play a single game in the field this year. And judging by his prior UZR numbers, a spittoon would catch more flyballs.

by WTM on Oct 9, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

point taken.

by escroll on Oct 9, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

pass on all 3 of those guys.

by filteru2 on Oct 8, 2009 4:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

All three are past their prime, and injury prone. Talk to Dave Littlefield though, I’m pretty sure he’d love all three of the signings.

by thefutureisnear on Oct 8, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

That’s all we need is a wasted chunk of money on an FA past his prime so he can bottom out and fans can complain about “more of the same.” It’s bad enough NH is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn’t.

In this case, I’d rather be damned if I didn’t.

"Straight ball I hit very much, but curveball, bats are afraid." - Pedro Cerrano

by silencerdu on Oct 9, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd much rather take Ankeil (sp?)

he can run and hit and field

"Polamalu’s lineage can be traced through several roots. Chuck Norris mated with an Amazon Queen, and on the other side, Tony Hawk mated with Mother Nature.

The two children of these spawned and fused in a tantric love session to create Troy Polamalu. The mother however died as he tore through the birth canal with a spin move."
Mechem on the roots of Troy Polamalu

by WVPiratesfan on Oct 8, 2009 4:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Pretty close: Ankiel

Wrong order, but the right letters, at least.

by Vlad on Oct 8, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you for that Vlad

stupid I before E rule

"Polamalu’s lineage can be traced through several roots. Chuck Norris mated with an Amazon Queen, and on the other side, Tony Hawk mated with Mother Nature.

by WVPiratesfan on Oct 8, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’d think Freddy could be worth having for maybe one more year or two, but at the point the Pirates would be spending money, just to spend money; so why bother. Matsui would be cool if the NL went with a DH option; but I don’t see that happening, and I would hate it if it did…. Jack, would have to come real cheap…..

"I choose to gamble with my life

Twice the risk, four times the prize

Nothing knocks me over"

by lighthouse913 on Oct 8, 2009 4:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Nick Johnson? Any chance the Pirates can sign him? Should they sign him if they can? I know he’s injury prone, but he seems like a good fit.

by TravisDW on Oct 8, 2009 5:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't be opposed to Nick Johnson.

Keep Jones in RF. At some point Johnson will be hurt and then we can bring up Clement and see what he has. I think I like the idea. Sign Johnson and trade for Kelly Johnson and I’d be pretty content going into next year.

Anyone know is Beimel a type A?

by Slick1 on Oct 9, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe it's just me...

…but if a guy isn’t interested in signing a contract extension with the Nationals (which got him traded to Florida as a result), he’s not gonna be interested in signing with the Pirates, no matter how much money they offer him.

"Straight ball I hit very much, but curveball, bats are afraid." - Pedro Cerrano

by silencerdu on Oct 9, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My take on these

Matsui: As noted above, he is a DH. Also, his numbers may have been skewed by the mega-bandbox in NY. Not a chance.

Wilson: Not a significant upgrade over Cedeno, but Jack would cost far more. On a three-year deal, he could also be blocking Friday or d’Arnaud. Beyond being a PR move for the PBCers, this move would make no sense. Again, no.

Sanchez. Not a significant upgrade over DY/Cruz/Bixler/stopgap. Of course, if Andy is moved to 2B and thrives, Sanchez would be a downgrade from Andy, as well as being older and more expensive. No.

As to Nick Johnson, I don’t see it. Might as well see what we have with Clement, and Johnson would block Tabata once he becomes ready. Ankiel I could see, but only on a cheap, one-year deal, replacing Moss in the utility outfielder role.

Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89

by wg1of5 on Oct 8, 2009 6:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think it's crazy to say...

…that Sanchez wouldn’t be an upgrade on Young, Cruz, or Bixler. He pretty obviously would be, insofar as none of those are starting-caliber ML 2Bs.

The more relevant question is whether he’s enough of an upgrade to be worth a three-year commitment, and that’s where I say “probably not”.

by Vlad on Oct 8, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

three years there had more to do with realism- that the Pirates would inevitably need to overpay somewhat. Perhaps there are better options than Sanchez though?

by escroll on Oct 9, 2009 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Andy LaRoche is going to be the 2B so freddy won't be signed

by BigB23 on Oct 9, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I kinda doubt Freddy will get three years from anybody.

Bixler and Cruz shouldn’t even be on the roster two months from now.

by WTM on Oct 9, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Vlad...

bringing over your idea from another thread. I really like the idea of trading for Kelly Johnson. We may be to get him cheap while his value is low and he can still be useful if Laroche makes a successful switch to 2B. As I stated above I would also like to sign Nick Johnson. I don’t think he’s really blocking anyone. He’ll be hurt at some point at which Clement will get his opportunity.

by Slick1 on Oct 9, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If he’s just going to get hurt, why not give Clement the opportunity from the get-go? What point does signing Johnson have other than to help us get from 70 wins to 72? I do not like that plan. Ditto for Kelly Johnson. Who are we going to trade for him, and why would we let him block LaRoche or Milledge or Clement?

by epoc on Oct 9, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because I'm not sold on Clement...

and Johnson when healthy has a great glove and mad on base skills. Who knows, this may be the year where he stays healthy. I personally don’t see Clement as a long term answer. He was supposed to go to winter ball to work on his fielding but pulled a muscle in his stomach so he is not major league ready yet. IMO, he’s a left handed version of Pearce but with pedigree. If we don’t sign anyone I’m all for giving Clement a shot though i’d like him a lot better if he could still catch.

Kelly Johnson wouldn’t block anybody. He would start at 2B until Pedro was ready at which point he becomes a utility player with some pop. Between him and DY we’d have a pretty solid bench. And I’m in favor of trading him if we don’t give up anything to important. I really have no idea what it would take Johnson and there may not be a match there.

by Slick1 on Oct 9, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You and I totally disagree on this

To whit:
1) I don’t think it’s a good idea to make LaRoche start at 3b until Pedro’s ready. If he’s going to move, he should do it ASAP.
2) I don’t think it’s a good idea to trade for someone you plan to make a utility man after half a season, unless what you’re giving up is worthless. The Braves are not going to trade KJ for something worthless.
3) Clement may or may not be a long-term answer, which is exactly why we should give him a good look at the major league level this season. He’s definitely better than Pearce, judging by the MiL numbers.
4) Most importantly, I just do not care at all about the difference between 70 wins and 72. Why pay anything to anyone for that? If by some miracle Johnson stays healthy all year and is a 5-win player, I don’t think I’ll enjoy the season any more than watching Clement put up 1 or 2 wins. If the difference meant a pennant chase it would be different, but that’s just not where this team is at right now. It’s far better IMO to see if you can develop the cheap young players who can contribute when the team is ready to compete.

by epoc on Oct 9, 2009 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You have good points.

1) if Andy doesn’t start at 3B who do we start at 3B until Pedro is ready? Guess we could go with Walker but he does not appear to be ready for a starting role yet.
2) Lots of things have to happen before he assumes a utility role. Pedro has to perform, Andy has to perform, Milledge and Jones both have to perform. We can’t go into the season expecting everyone to click. Best case, everyone clicks and we don’t need KJ and we flip him for something else.
3) Pearce Mil #‘s are a little better than Clement’s and Pearce at least plays a serviceable defense. Pearce had a .879 OPS while Clement has a .865 OPS. So given that I wouldn’t say that he is “definitely” better than Pearce. I’m not a Pearce fan but let’s be honest his “extended” look involved about 150 PA’s and seldom consecutive starts.
4) signing Johnson for say 2-3 years means he could be around when we start getting interesting. So yeah, may not mean much next year but could a nice piece on the 2011 team. I doubt he would play for us and I wouldn’t grossly overpay for him but I wouldn’t be upset if we were able to land him.

by Slick1 on Oct 10, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

(You mean "to wit", BTW)

1) Maybe, but if we move LaRoche at the start, then we need someone to play 3B until Pedro’s ready… which brings us right back to having a use for Johnson, who came up through the minors and has at least a little bit of 3B experience.

2) We aren’t planning on making him a utility man. We’re keeping open the option of using him as a utility man if everything else goes right (i.e. LaRoche can handle 2B, Pedro can handle 3B, and our corner OFs stay healthy and productive). Having too many good players is never a bad thing, at least when compared to the alternative. Also, the cost for Johnson is likely to be fairly minimal in terms of players, in that he doesn’t have a starting role in Atlanta, and they probably aren’t going to want to pay $3M+ for a bench guy, as tight as their payroll situation is. Getting good players at a discount is almost always a good idea.

3) I agree that Clement should get a good look. What this has to do with Johnson, though, I can’t really understand, insofar as Clement can only handle 1B and we aren’t planning on giving Johnson any reps there.

4) Johnson is reasonably young. Born 2/22/82, which makes him about eight months younger than Garrett Jones, about four months older than Delwyn Young (who would probably be filling that role in Johnson’s absence), and only a year and a half older than Clement and LaRoche. If he rebounds, he’s just as likely as any of those guys to be a quality contributor for the team going forward.

by Vlad on Oct 10, 2009 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wonder Why

NH would not have wormed Kelly Johnson out of the Braves during the Adam LaRoche trade negotiations.

It was obvious that Wren wanted to trade Kotchman for Adam and the Pirates chose Diaz and Strickland (then Wren got LaRoche + cash from the Red Sox for Kotchman) . It probably wouldn’t have taken much more to get Kelly J along with Kotchman if that trade was made.

MAkes me think that Huntington is not interested in Kelly Johnson.

by God Loves on Oct 10, 2009 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're probably right.

I think though that Wren was still hoping KJ could turn things around and NH wanted to see what Young could do. I’m not saying I think it will happen just saying it’s an option I wouldn’t mind seeing.

by Slick1 on Oct 10, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sanchez would be a huge upgrade...

and I don’t think Tabata will be blocked by anyone when he’s ready. I’m not saying we should sign Sanchez because I want to see if Laroche can make the switch but Freddy is a huge upgrade over the players you mentioned as stopgaps.

by Slick1 on Oct 9, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Freddy is definitely better than any of our current 2Bs. If anything maybe by the time the Pirates are a competitive contender Freddy might be a solid bench guy.

by Sage18 on Oct 8, 2009 6:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

no free agents, please

We have players who need playing time at every position (assuming that LaRoche at 2b is for real). I really don’t like the idea of sending one of the kids back to AAA (or worse, benching them) in favor of a veteran who won’t make the Bucs winners and won’t be valuable by the time they are.

by epoc on Oct 8, 2009 7:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

None of this really matters for 2010; the Pirates are very unlikely to be good. But in 2011(if things work out how we hope), one or two players could make the difference between hanging around 80 wins and actually having a shot at the playoffs. The idea here is that the Pirates have money to burn in a very depressed FA market. Thus, there’s an opportunity for them to sign someone of worth, unlike usual.

Certainly, I’m all for giving young guys a chance to play. But some of these guys have pretty definitely shown that they don’t have it (DY, Moss), and as much as I’m hopeful for LaRoche to turn out, I have serious doubts about his ability to be a quality 2B. And there’s really noone in the wings; D’Arnaud’s at least a couple years away.

by escroll on Oct 9, 2009 1:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

I’m not in favor of the concept of spending money just because you have it, and I’m definitely not jumping up and down over this FA class. For what the Pirates immediate needs are, I don’t see more than a handful that would be worth paying well for and for that small group, they will probably be overpaid for, anyway.

When we had veteran players over the past few seasons, the fans ragged about trading the dead weight and letting the young guys play. Now that it has happened, they want to team to spend big in the FA market to try and win now.

NH needs to stay the course, which I am fairly certain he will do. It wouldn’t make sense to tear the whole thing down to the ground floor and start building on something that has no foundation yet. He has to let this team identify its elite young talent and then build around it after it has been established.

Doing anything other than that (and prematurely, to boot) would be a waste of time and money. And for a team like the Pirates, they can ill afford to waste either.

"Straight ball I hit very much, but curveball, bats are afraid." - Pedro Cerrano

by silencerdu on Oct 9, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I put a +1 on the wrong post...

…and in the process managed to contradict everything the one I replied to said.

“Which brings me to my next point, kids. Don’t smoke crack.” – Lawrence Taylor, “The Waterboy”

"Straight ball I hit very much, but curveball, bats are afraid." - Pedro Cerrano

by silencerdu on Oct 9, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think that 80 wins is an unrealistic target for 2011 at this point. If the Bucs are realistically in a position to be a .500 team for 2011 after next season, then maybe (just maybe) spending on free agents might be justified. Until then, we should let the kids develop, and as I said, a free agent is blocking that development at every position (except possibly ss, although I’d give Cedeno a full year).

by epoc on Oct 9, 2009 2:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Marco Scutaro

i like a trade for Kelly Johnson, but a free agent like Marco Scutaro could be had. he is 34 but seems to be a later prime guy who can play multiple positions, scored 100 runs, and had a .380obp. great to have until Alvarez arrives to shore up the infield with a good vet presence. can also bat 2nd or 1st if you want to move Cutch to 3rd in the order.
Scott Proctor is another name that just came up. released by the Marlins, he had a down year this year ERA wise, but his K numbers were still good meaning he is still getting swings and misses. i think he could fill the Tyler Yates role if Evan Meek is still recovering, and give us another former Yankee to add to the stable. also like Vinnie Chulk as a lefty.. werent we trying to get him a few years ago?

by patientpirate on Oct 13, 2009 3:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs