Pirates 2010 ZIPS Projections
Somewhat inspiring to me. Thoughts?
3 months ago
poobah
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I'd definitely take those lines...
…from Pearce, Clement, Morton, and Walker. Kratz might actually deserve roster consideration next offseason if he plays up to those numbers. I’m somewhat disappointed by the lines from Milledge and Lincoln.
I hope the lines for Pedro and Tabata encourage people to be a bit more patient about their development.
There was apparently an error in Dan’s last projection for Iwamura, which is corrected here.
by Vlad on Nov 11, 2009 10:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Since I don’t feel like registering an account, Vlad, would you mind asking them to remove Craig Monroe?
by thegreatchris on Nov 11, 2009 7:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Guys are listed under the team with which they were last under contract.
That’s why Monroe’s on our list, even though we cut him: He never signed with anyone else.
by Vlad on Nov 12, 2009 8:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the hitting projections do have some bright spots but man… the pitching projections look terrible. backward steps from duke and ohlie and lincoln’s terrible line, and that’s before we get to the bullpen. 5 of the top 7 projected relievers are either hurt or have been cut, and that’s assuming a significant bounce back from capps. NH has a lot of work to do in the pitching area.
by johnnycuff on Nov 11, 2009 10:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Relievers are easy.
And Ohlie shouldn’t be a surprise – he was above his peripherals last year, and horrible in 2008.
by Vlad on Nov 11, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Ohlendorf outperforms his ZIPS projection. He was above his peripherals, but he was also in the process of making a change in his delivery to get max control. Near the end of the season, he started to add velocity again, and in the second half he saw a full degree of magnitude of improvement in K/9 while his BB/9 remained the same.
http://fanhuddle.com/pittsburghpirates
by Nate Rose on Nov 11, 2009 9:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But ZiPS doesn't "know" any of that.
As such, I was saying that we shouldn’t be surprised that it’s not reflected in the projection.
by Vlad on Nov 12, 2009 8:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It may not know about he velocity, but shouldn’t it pick up on a relatively long-term trend of improving K/9? I mean, if it were just his last 3 starts or something, that’s a blip, but pitching a certain way for the second half of a season, for a young pitcher, seems like it should show up.
by JRoth95 on Nov 12, 2009 11:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How much of a trend is there?
K/9, by month (games):
April (4): 3.6
May (6): 5.6
June (6): 5.1
July (5): 5.1
August (5): 6.3
September (3): 8.0
Is that a guy with a “relatively long-term improving trend”, or a guy who happened to have an outlier game on September 5?
by Vlad on Nov 12, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I get
For taking someone else’s characterization of stats at face value.
I actually looked at his numbers yesterday and saw that there wasn’t a huge leap in anything, but noted in passing his improving K numbers, so I was open to what Nate said.
Anyway.
by JRoth95 on Nov 12, 2009 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Couple Wierd things on there
Jeff Salazar’s player comparison: Terry Bradshaw????? lol
Lastings Millage’s ODDIBE: only a 8% chance of having important baseball events, despite him having a VG rating in left and a little below average offense projections. (Bixler has a 17% ODDBIE? of average or better, Vasquez has a 50% ODDBIE!! of average or better despite poor defensive and offensive projections, and Kratz’s is unusually high) Could you give a quick recap how they calculate ODDBIE Vlad?
Alderson’s projection(better than Ohlie, Lincoln, and D. McCutch’s)
Bootchek’s numbers
by Danatural08 on Nov 11, 2009 12:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The ODDIBE quintiles are offense-only, and by the listed position. So Bixler and Vazquez offense is compared to the average MLB SS, and Milledge to the average LF. At any rate, it’s a terrible offensive projection for Milledge and we just have to hope his health issues that couldn’t be accounted for in the computer model will be alleviated next year.
by Adam Reynolds on Nov 11, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ohhhh
makes sense. Thanks Adam. I think we all are aware that our offense projections would be poor. This definitely shows that we need to temper our enthusiasm and expectations of pedro and tabata. It also makes what Cutch and Jones did that much more impressive
by Danatural08 on Nov 11, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, important to consider with Milledge is that he only has one full season of MLB data to go on. That and, like you said, there were injury concerns that ZIPS has no way of knowing about.
http://fanhuddle.com/pittsburghpirates
by Nate Rose on Nov 11, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bootcheck's peripherals were better than his results...
…and he’d been pitching VERY well at AAA before getting called up.
by Vlad on Nov 11, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and the Terry Bradshaw in question...
…is presumably this one.
Funny coincidence, though.
by Vlad on Nov 11, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m kind of shocked at just how much bounceback is projected for Capps – am I correct in thinking that this is the median/most likely projection (i.e., the middle of the bell curve of all likely seasons from each player)? I would be very happy to get that from Capps without considering it a better-than-expected outcome.
WRT Ohlie, wasn’t there general agreement that he looked better across the board in August and September? IOW, he may have outperformed his peripherals the first few months, but by the end he was throwing hard, locating his pitches, and cutting down on walks and HRs. OK, I checked: he was somewhat better in August (better K rate, among other things), and a lot better in September (sOPS+ of 45). So the question is whether you think there’s any there there, or if that’s just random variation. Given that his velocity improved, I don’t believe it was only random variation. We’ll see.
by JRoth95 on Nov 11, 2009 2:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to see the splits.
He did look better in terms of fastball velocity but I don’t have the splits on his peripherals. He did have a 4.72 FIP with a tRA over f. His BABIP of .265 helps explain the low ERA. James projections have Ohlie’s FIP improving to around 4.5 I believe but has is ERA increasing to 4.9 as his BABIP gets close to normal (about .320). James also predicts he’ll improve his walks and K’s again so overall he’ll be a better pitcher with a worse ERA.
by Slick1 on Nov 11, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What’s the deal with Brian Myrow? Are they projecting him as an older version of GFJones? That’s a crazy projection for a guy who has sucked in ~60 MLB games, and didn’t show much in the minors until he reached Las Vegas at age 27.
Shit like this makes me question the whole thing, honestly.
by JRoth95 on Nov 11, 2009 2:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Myrow has always hit a little.
3840 career minor league PA, with a .307/.414/.507 composite line. 2130 career AAA PA, with a .313/.423/.528 composite line. That’s not too shabby, and it tells you a lot more about his ML abilities than his 61 PA in The Show do.
It’s tough to work your way into a ML job as a 1B, because the low defensive requirements mean that everybody and their mother is fighting with you for that spot. It’s even harder when you spend four years at college and then three more in indy ball trying to get noticed.
by Vlad on Nov 11, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I grant that the 60 ML ABs don’t mean much on their own, but someone here taught me a lot about signs that a minor leaguer probably won’t be the real deal in the bigs, and one of them was being old for level, and another was repeating years at levels.
If Myrow turns into another Jones, NH should just go fulltime into converting 1B MiL castoffs into ML semi-stars.
by JRoth95 on Nov 11, 2009 3:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Generally speaking...
…those are good rules to follow in evaluation, but you need to consider context as well. Since Myrow wasn’t signed by a ML club until he was 24, it was pretty much a given that he was going to be old for his leagues – that oldness wasn’t a function of his merit as a prospect. Also, the level repeater thing really only applies when a guy struggles in his first year at a level, and then improves at that level in following seasons (usually when he’s older relative to the competition). Myrow always hit fairly well in his first year at a new level – .802 OPS in his first year at A+, .877 in his first year at AA, and .918 in his first year at AAA. As such, the level repeater effect really doesn’t apply for him.
Once a guy’s in his late 20s or early 30s and playing regularly at AAA, he probably pretty much is what he is, and a linear translation will give you a good guess at his overall value. Myrow looks like a guy who’d be good for about a .750 OPS, which is reasonable for a bench player but not something that’ll get an older player a lot of looks at a position as competitive as first base.
by Vlad on Nov 11, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm new at this ZIPS stuff
… so I hope someone will explain it a little. Does ZIPS not take likely playing time into account for position players? I’m having trouble figuring out how they came up with their projections for Laroche, Walker, Alavarez and Iwamura, for example, sharing two positions (and not counting Young or any other utility guys).
by Zadoras on Nov 11, 2009 5:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No, ZiPS does not claim to accurately project playing time.
by Charlie on Nov 11, 2009 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ZiPS draws assumptions for future playing time...
…purely based on past playing time (majors and minors combined). It doesn’t have any “editorial oversight” as far as a player’s likely future role is concerned.
by Vlad on Nov 12, 2009 8:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Steve Pearce
Do they really think Pearce will have 85 RBI’s? He wasn’t a complete disaster but I absolutely don’t see him leading the team in RBI’s.
by thefutureisnear on Nov 11, 2009 5:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Pearce spent most of last season...
…hitting at the heart of Indy’s lineup, where he drove in 54 runs in only 273 AB. Since it draws assumptions for future usage from past usage, it sees him hitting in the middle of our lineup, and having a similar number of opportunities, when it forecasts his 2010 RBI.
by Vlad on Nov 12, 2009 8:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A pretty good minor league slugger.
Came up through SD’s system. Memorably, he once suffered a season-ending leg injury in a team celebration at home plate, after hitting a walk-off shot.
Doesn’t run much, doesn’t field much, but he’s got good power, and he’d probably be respectable on a ML bench.
“Taggert” is actually one of his middle names. The full name is “Robert Tanios Taggert Bozied”, which might be even better.
by Vlad on Nov 12, 2009 8:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So,
if ZIPS doesn’t take so many things into account, WTF good is it?
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 12, 2009 6:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hey, it projected that GFJones would hit 20 HRs days before he actually did it; you can’t get forecasting like that just anywhere.
by JRoth95 on Nov 12, 2009 6:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, since the things it's not good at projecting...
…(i.e. the apportioning of playing time and team context-dependent stats like RBI and saves) have very little to do with a player’s actual skills or value, I’m not sure I see the problem here.
by Vlad on Nov 12, 2009 7:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It also doesn’t handle injured players well, per a previous discussion about Freddy Sanchez. Treating a guy who played injured identically to a guy who isn’t very good has a lot to do with “a player’s actual skills [and] value.”
You just need to recognize that ZIPS is a very sophisticated tool for deriving a very crude result, and you’re good.
by JRoth95 on Nov 13, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's actually less of a problem than you'd think.
Guys who played hurt in the past are more likely to play hurt in the future, so while it can get fooled from time to time, it can also sometimes correctly predict a Pete Reiser-ish degredation of skill for injured players.
Last year, it predicted a .285/.324/.398 (88 OPS+) line from Freddy in 2009, and the actual line ended up at .296/.326/.416 (96 OPS+). Not perfect, but not too far off, either.
by Vlad on Nov 14, 2009 7:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs












