Tigers as trade partners?
NH has shown already that he's at least going to be involved in talks this off-season with the Aki acquisition and the Hardy-Capps trade that wasn't.
Mlbtraderumors.com has a small piece on a few Tiger's players and I couldn't help but think the Pirates fit their needs very well, and vice versa.
First, the Tigers have too much money tied up in star players, so they're exploring trading Edwin Jackson before he becomes a FA in 2012. Jackson, once a TB prospect, had a breakout first half last season before struggling in the second half. Still, he's 26 and is controlled through 2011. This, to me, would be a guy the Pirates would have to target if he is available.
Second, the Tigers are exploring trading Gerald Laird to get an adequate replacement for a fraction of the 2.88 million he made last year. Jason Jaramillo has proven himself more than adequate when given the chance to play everyday and would be as good, probably better than Laird, who often looks slow and out of shape.
Third, RP Brandon Lyons recently became a free agent. The Tigers are interested in bringing him back, but the price Lyons may get on the market may be higher than what the Tigers want to pay. Clearly Matt Capps is a tradeable piece right now and would come cheap and controllable for the Tigers.
Now, maybe Jackson isn't even being considered in any deal, although I'd love the Pirates to grab him. Still, I think with the Pirates willingness to trade Capps and excess at the catcher position, the Tigers would be good trade partners this offseason.
Ideally: Edwin Jackson for Capps, Jaramillo, and... Gorkys maybe? A decent option for when Granderson's legs get a little slower in a few years. Seems pretty even to me.
Thoughts in general?
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34 comments
Comments
Jackson would be a nice addition
But I am quite skeptical that Capps, Jaramillo, and Hernandez would be an adequate package in return.
Viva Clemente!
by Roberto on Nov 11, 2009 10:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
It would take...
Capps, Jaramillo, and Brad Lincoln or Jose Tabata to get a deal done. Completelty not worth it. Why should we sacrifice our future to get an above average starter for a losing team. We will still not be a good team with Jackson on it.
by joegonzo on Nov 11, 2009 10:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Maybe not in 2010...
..but 2011 with Jackson we could be a good team. If Jackson proves himself to be a solid starter, the Pirates will have almost two years to lock him up long-term. Capps and Jaramillo are expendable… if it came down to the Tigers asking for Lincoln, I’d still pull the trigger. Tabata, I’d hang onto.
by jlk9697 on Nov 11, 2009 10:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
What?
You would trade Capps, Jaramillo and Lincoln for 2 years of Jackson? Lincoln has a chance to be better than Jackson. Jackson had one good half. There’s no way I’d sell the farm for him. I wouldn’t even give up Hernandez. IMO Capps and Jaramillo is adequate. Jackson’s FIP was 4.28 and his tRA was 4.75 and that was with a decrease in his walk rate. I just don’t see this as the beginning of a breakout, I think last year was his ceiling. Still pretty good but not good enough to make me want to buy high on him. I think we have enough interesting pitchers here in Morton, Lincoln and McCutchen that we don’t need to sell the farm for Jackson.
by Slick1 on Nov 11, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
agreed
mlbprospectreport.blogspot.com
by kstanz41 on Nov 11, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
Since when is Daniel McCutchen, an old prospect with below average stuff, an interesting arm?
by Bux123 on Nov 12, 2009 5:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Since...
…he doesn’t have below-average stuff, and never did?
Average, maybe, but let’s not get carried away. We aren’t talking about Livan Hernandez here.
by Vlad on Nov 12, 2009 9:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But...
What is interesting about a 27 year old with average at best stuff? If he was 20 and his stuff wasnt exactly above average (Alderson), yea I would find him interesting. If he’s 26 and he possesses atleast one or two above average pitches (Hart), yea I would find him interesting. Sorry I’m just not high on this guy. I saw him pitch a couple times last year and he was 89-91 with so-so breaking pitches. It bothers me that the Pirates organization seems to be comfortable with their rotation going into next season. If they would add one solid starting pitcher, most likely via trade, we would have a very respectable rotation. Instead they’d rather throw Daniel McCutchen out there. Just dont get it.
by Bux123 on Nov 13, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you're going to be technical about it...
…Zach Duke is also a 27-year-old with average stuff. Are you excited about him?
Pitcher aging curves don’t work the same way as hitter aging ones, so a 27-year-old isn’t automatically just a space-filler. And McCutchen was only drafted in 2006, so it’s not like he’s been floating around in the minors forever. He’s just a college draftee who came up in a fairly deep organization that didn’t need to push him aggressively.
by Vlad on Nov 14, 2009 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha
Your comparing Daniel McCutchen to a guy that absolutely owned minor league hitters and made it to the bigs at age 22. And at 22 he owned major league hitters with plus control, a plus curve, and plus change. Incase you missed it he was an all-star this year. Bad comparison, try again.
by Bux123 on Nov 21, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude...
Factor in what he’s done since, please.
And then try again.
Or, better yet, don’t.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 21, 2009 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Factor in everything i just said and...
Incase you missed it he was an all-star this year. Bad comparison, try again.
by Bux123 on Nov 21, 2009 8:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
An all-star
Who didn’t play.
Perhaps you could take a cursory glance at his stats.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 21, 2009 11:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
...
I didn’t choose him, talk to Charlie Manuel, Joe Torre, and Tony La Russa about the selection. I’m sure you know more about baseball then them. Look, here’s my take. “Daniel McCutchen is average AT BEST and the ceiling ends there, Duke is a tick above average with potential to be slightly more then that”. If you think McCutchen is capable of ever putting up all-star numbers in the first half of a season, as Duke did last year, keep dreamin buddy. My point is, I dont find McCutchen an interesting arm. End of story.
by Bux123 on Nov 22, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
See, to me...
Jaramillo has way more value being traded than internally. Also, It’s a little scary how much we, as Pirate fans, value Capps when the Brewers would prefer Gomez to the guy. I think there’s still some circles in baseball that believe in Capps, but he obviously doesn’t have the value he did in ‘07 or ’08. Jaramillo will probably never start full time for the Pirates, unless we deal Doumit, which I don’t see happening.
Lincoln, I’ve never been as big of a fan of as others on this site. He has yet to show he can even get past AAA (Although I think he will) and he’ll be 25 in May. If you’re asking me if I’d rather have a 26 yr old Jackson who posted All-Star like numbers in the first half of the ‘09 season, yes I would. Ultimately, there’s others in the organization I’d prefer to give up over Lincoln (D McCutch? Gorkys? Maybe even Clement?) to get Jackson. Looks like I’m in the minority here tho… Fun to debate!
by jlk9697 on Nov 11, 2009 11:34 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Lincoln "has yet to show he can even get past AAA"...
…because he’s a college starter who suffered an arm injury.
Age is important, but college players are almost all 24 or 25 when they reach the majors for the first time. That’s just the way it works when you stay in school until you’re 21, to say nothing of missing a full year after TJ in the bargain.
by Vlad on Nov 11, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ZIPS projection system has Jackson at a 4.28 ERA, which would put him at 2nd in the rotation behind Morton’s 4.12 (or possibly tied with him given the league difference) and slightly ahead of Maholm.
Bill James projections (on Fangraphs) on the other hand has Jackson at 4.75 ERA, with a lower ERA and FIP than Morton, Maholm, Duke (!), and even Hart (!!!). League difference explains some, but not all of the difference.
I don’t know if Jackson will be cost-effective enough to be worth it, and potentially giving up significant pieces seals the deal for me.
by Adam Reynolds on Nov 11, 2009 11:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
In my experience...
…the James projections are kind of wacky relative to other measures, in part because he doesn’t do as good a job of setting the league offensive baseline.
by Vlad on Nov 11, 2009 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm Seeing
Sherrill from LA for Jackson. Don’t think I’d do 3, including Lincoln, for Edwin Jackson.
Totally anti NH.
Are you guys nuts?
by God Loves on Nov 11, 2009 1:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Apparently
I’m the only one that’s nuts. Take Jackson and Lincoln both out of the equation and I think we still have two pieces (Capps and Jaramillo or Diaz) that Detroit could benefit from adding.
by jlk9697 on Nov 11, 2009 1:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I do think Pittsburgh might be interested
the trouble at this point is, we don’t have expendable prospects. Brad Lincoln is out of the question as a trade piece. But, depending on what the Tigers want, and who else is interested in Jackson (New York, apparently, as mlbtr points out), I could see the Bucs making a run with some combination of Pearce, Capps, maybe a catcher, and perhaps Clement- not all of them, just a couple… its not clear to me at this point, whether we consider a catcher expendable… Jaramillo, Diaz (who seems to be an infield backup as well this year)… and as jlk pointed out, Jaramillo has more value than it seems in Pittsburgh, where he’s “stuck” behind Doumit! (ofc, with Doumit being as injury-prone as he is….)
by BurgherKing on Nov 11, 2009 3:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Jackson idea makes no sense for either team. The Tigers won’t trade a frontline starter for a struggling reliever and a couple guys who figure to be backups. They’ll be looking for somebody with a high ceiling. And the Pirates have just gone to a lot of trouble to add guys they can control for well beyond two years and also to add starting depth. They’re not going to trade a bunch of those guys for somebody who’ll be gone in two years and who’ll block the starters they just traded for. A trade like this would make sense for the Pirates only if they then moved Jackson somewhere else. It makes no sense for the Tigers.
by WTM on Nov 11, 2009 4:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not gunna happen
First of all, Jackson is owed way too much money in arbitriation then the Pirates are willing to pay. Second, it’ll take one if not two solid prospects to land Jackson, the Pirates are not willing to part with the few good prospects they have. Third, is starting pitching even our biggest need?
by Bux123 on Nov 12, 2009 5:28 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The only way the Pirates can increase their talent base and compete
is to consistently buy low and sell high. If you buy high, can you expect that asset to go higher? Why give up prospects like Lincoln that could become much more valuable in two years to get someone who you would lose in two years?
The Pirates need to develop all of their most valuable starting pitchers and power hitters in house. It is impossible to acquire them any other way.
by MarkInDallas on Nov 12, 2009 6:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
agreed
I don’t think now is the time to be burning prospects on ML ready players. Mebbe after next year.
by BlindSquirrel on Nov 12, 2009 7:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Keep and eye on developing three-way trade talk with Tigers and Mariners and mystery team involving M’s Brandon Morrow and Dets Jackson
via USA today and twitter
think maybe we could be jumping in the middle of this deal? we’re no doubt familiar with both team’s minor league systems and detroit has need for a cheap catcher, which we’ve got in spades at the moment. maybe we could pry a half decent prospect and a player about to get purged from someone’s 40 man?
by johnnycuff on Nov 19, 2009 2:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
seattle could use a catcher too
but if we are in the deal, we should be getting morrow/jackson? plus a prospect? hmm, i dont think so… someone must be pretty hard up!
by BurgherKing on Nov 19, 2009 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hope it wouldn’t be Doumit, unless some very tasty prospects received a train ticket to Pittsburgh along with it.
by Adam Reynolds on Nov 19, 2009 7:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
i was thinking more of jaramillo/diaz than doumit
by johnnycuff on Nov 20, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
is it likely?
If seattle gives up morrow, he goes to detroit, and jackson goes to the 3rd team, who sends something to seattle. Would seattle give up morrow for jaramillo/diaz? Also, the Bucs have been shopping Doumit, and seem keen to trade…
if we got Jackson for jaramillo, I d be thrilled! It’s more likely Doumit, imo
by BurgherKing on Nov 20, 2009 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody is going to give up substantial prospects...
…for Jaramillo or Diaz.
by Vlad on Nov 20, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
definitely not
which is why i said “half decent prospect”
i didn’t mean that either of morrow or jackson would be headed this way. the way i see it, a catcher would go to detroit, with seattle sending us the half decent prospect and detroit throwing us some filler, or vice versa.
by johnnycuff on Nov 20, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It just seems strange to me...
…to talk about Diaz or Jaramillo that way. Those are the sorts of guys who get traded for bit parts or thrown into a larger deal, not used as the impetus for a larger deal in and of themselves.
And right now, there are a lot of solid low-cost catching options on the market, starting with Torrealba.
by Vlad on Nov 20, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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