Bucs Make Flurry of Roster Moves
by Charlie Wilmoth on Nov 20, 2009 6:39 PM EST
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PrintThe Pirates have cut Robinzon Diaz, Justin Thomas and Jeff Karstens from the 40-man roster, added Brad Lincoln, Gorkys Hernandez, Bryan Morris and Ramon Aguero, and claimed reliever Chris Jakubauskas from the Mariners.
Thomas and Karstens aren't huge surprises--Thomas was claimed from the M's only a couple weeks ago, and Karstens was arbitration-eligible--but I'm a surprised by Diaz being cut. He was a perfectly functional backup catcher for chunks of last year, and functional backup catchers are valuable. If one looks at the entirety of his performance record, though, it's not that impressive--he actually hit worse at AAA last year than he did in the majors. So I suppose there's a case to be made that he wouldn't continue to be productive with the Pirates if he stuck with them. If Diaz is lost and Ryan Doumit is traded, the Bucs will have to hunt around for another catcher. This could be a sign that the Pirates are taking Jeff Clement seriously as a catcher, although it also might have nothing to do with that at all.
Jakubauskas doesn't have much of a performance record and he's already 30, but he has a great curveball and he held his own in the American League last year, albeit with a really low strikeout rate, and the sort of flyball tendency that plays better in Safeco than anywhere else but San Diego.
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Someone needs to explain to me what makes Diaz less valuable than Bixler or Cruz. Even if, as Charlie speculated, the Buccos think Jeff Clement is a serviceable catcher, it happens that Diaz learned to play the infield this year. And he can hit, which Bixler and Cruz cannot.
Jakubauskas (what a name) doesn’t really seem to make sense, either. He might be decent, but he’s a 31-year-old flyball pitcher. I don’t see the point of dropping Karstens to make room for him (if you HAD to acquire Jakubauskas, why not just remove, say, Claggett).
Obviously, these are not terribly noteworthy moves, but I’m still disappointed. This was supposed to be the day we walked away from all the roster flotsam.
Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89
I’d have much rather have seen the Pirates DFA Bixler. He’s entirely useless.
That said, I don’t think Diaz is all that good. I think the decision was probably made because our catcher depth is better than our middle infield depth.
I’d love if Clement’s knees could hold out well enough to be a catcher. He’d certainly be a lot more productive there, and would make Ryan Doumit entirely expendable. I’m just not sure how much the Pirates should count on that.
http://fanhuddle.com/pittsburghpirates
Not sure what NH is thinking
Jakubauskas doesn’t look better than Karstens as a swing man, and is 3+ years older.
Does Bixler have pictures of NH in a compromising position?
I’ll miss Robinzone.
I could be wrong...
but I think Safeco is much friendlier to lefty flyball pitchers than righty flyball pitchers.
Jabu......
Is basically the same pitcher as Karstens but for 2 million dollars less on the payroll (Karstens is Super 2 arb eligible) and the flexibility to send him down to Indy (Karstens OTOH was out of options).
What I don’t understand is why they DFA Robinzone?
Unless he pulled a Snell I just don’t understand it.
by BadAndy on Nov 20, 2009 7:46 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Diaz can hit well enough to be a defense-first catcher, except that his defense isn’t good. He doesn’t play shortstop, either. Pirates are probably just higher on Jaramillo and Erik Kratz, who both are better offensively and defensively.
And possibly Clement, who is certainly better on offense at least. Diaz would be 5th out of the major-league ready options for next year.
by Adam Reynolds on Nov 20, 2009 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
Kratz is 30 years old and hasn’t had so much as a Major League cup of coffee. And seeing him play, his defense is nothing special. Average, but not special. I like Diaz better in his slot.
http://fanhuddle.com/pittsburghpirates
However, the AAA pitchers like throwing to Kratz more. That may have been a factor.
http://fanhuddle.com/pittsburghpirates
Kratz can be assigned to AAA. Diaz can’t. Diaz is the better player, but we’re talking about a guy who at most will be the backup catcher for a while. (If Doumit and Jaramillo both get hurt, we’re kinda screwed regardless.) So the difference in potential performance probably doesn’t outweigh the roster flexibility, especially with Sanchez hopefully coming along soon.
Or at least I guess that’s how the team sees it, although on the whole I’m still puzzled that they’d just dump Diaz.
Kratz may only be average, but is Diaz even average behind the plate? I don’t think so. Kratz has more power than Robinzon in the upper levels, as well. It’s at least close between them.
by Adam Reynolds on Nov 20, 2009 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
By My Math...
According to MLB Trade Rumors, JockosBoscos “…allowed 91 hits and 27 walks in 93 innings for the Mariners last year, striking out 47 for a 5.32 ERA.” By my math, that’s a 1.27 WHIP, which isn’t terrible. But 47 strikeouts in 93 IP comes out to only 4.5k/9 IP, which is not great and a 5.32 ERA in the AL West doesn’t strike me as particularly good. Even if Jeff Karstens was eligible for arbitration, we could have a) cleared the roster space with someone else (yes, that’s Bixler going under the bus) or b) kept Karstens and traded him f/younger pitcher(s) with something like upside. JB doesn’t do anything for me.
The way Huntington explained it
is that they feel Karstens and Jakubauskas are similar players who would fill the same role. The difference is that Karstens is out of options, and Jakubauskas can still be sent back down. Karstens was in a position where he basically had to make the team, while Jakubauskas can be replaced if they have a better option.
Well, at least that's rational thought
But based on both his Pirates and Yankees performance, I think teams will be all over Karstens. So trading him could have been an option unless his “super-2” status is that much of a poison pill. Alternatively, I remember him being reasonably sound in the bullpen or as a spot starter (again, this is both for the Yankees and Pirates). So the option of keeping him on the roster doesn’t seem bad either. Even with Super-2 arbitration, would his $$ be completely out-of-line w/a competent innings-eater? If not, why force your pitching coach to start from scratch w/someone new who will have no trade value, what with the overabunce of older middle relievers?
Brad Thompson is a very similar player...
…and the Cardinals were quick enough to cut him a few weeks ago, rather than taking him to arb.
Teams like having guys like Karstens around, but they only like having them at near-minimum salaries.
Guys Guys Guys
I live out in Mariners country. Don’t let that “Chris” fool you; this guy actually goes by Jack Ibauskus.
Robinzon Diaz
If the Tigers do not grab him, I’ll be surprised. They tried to work out a deal for him last August. Now the Pirates get nothing in return.
by formerdraftpick on Nov 21, 2009 9:16 AM EST reply actions
Not necessarily
Because of his service time the Pirates can’t outright Robinzone to Indy like they would with Karstens or Thomas. In other words, the Pirates have 10 days to find a suitable trade partner for Diaz. If it doesn’t work out he is a FA and THEN we would get nothing in return.
by BadAndy on Nov 21, 2009 9:43 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ramon Aguero
I’m a little confused on the Pirates adding Ramon Aguero to the 40 man roster. They said that they wanted to protect him because he improved significantly in his last 5 relief apprearances and has a combination of off-speed picthes, slider, etc. But would any team notice a player who was 1-10 6.75era and 64 hits in 49 innings???? Also, did they DFA the wrong Diaz? Sure one is a slick fielding SS, but is a Mendoza line specialist at the bat.
by formerdraftpick on Nov 21, 2009 10:32 AM EST reply actions
The 1-10 and 6.75 ERA was from last season. Here are his stats for this year:
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=paW06513&position=P
That page did get his birthday wrong, though. Every other site has him at December 21, 1984. If his scouting reports (in velocity, etc.) improved drastically at A+ and AA this year, then word would get around quickly in the league and he would be a Rule 5 pick.
by Adam Reynolds on Nov 21, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
When the Pirates signed Aguero, he was going by the name “Samuel Vasquez” and was claiming to be four years younger than he is. The 1984 date is correct.
Aguero struggled badly last year and at the beginning of this year as a starter. When they moved him to the bullpen, he took off. The same thing happened with Matt Capps and John Grabow in the past. Aguero’s FB sits around 95 and he’s got a very good change that he throws a lot to lefties—he actually has a reverse platoon split, I assume due to the change. His command is good for a guy with so little experience, but I’ve seen him in two-inning outings where he started losing the strike zone in the second inning. That may explain his struggles as a starter. I could see him in the Pirates’ bullpen at some point in 2010.
I meant to add, bb-ref has Aguero all screwed up. They’ve still got Samuel Vasquez listed, with the false birth date and all of Aguero’s stats from 2006-07 and 2009. They’ve got Aguero listed with the correct birth date, but only his 2008 stats. I emailed them about this many months ago and they never fixed it.
see what sticks
NH should take a flyer on Shelley Duncan who was just designated by the yankees, he can play corner outfield, 1st base and could be emergency catcher, & was never given a chance in NY…
I would agree.
At least at AAA, Duncan was everything we hoped Brad Eldred would be. He led the IL in home runs and played well enough when called up two years ago, but the Yankees picked up Mark Texiera. Duncan at 1st and GI Jones in right could give us some scary middle-of-the-order power for a year or two.
Interesting moves
I don’t understand Chris Jakubauskas at all. They have plenty of AAAA pitchers.
I’m also confused by the Robinzon Diaz decision.
Finally, I have no idea why Bixler, Cruz, Claggett and Dumatrait are on the roster.
I just believe anyone would claim them on waivers. There have to be more moves coming.
No more moves allowed . . .
. . . after midnight last night. Rosters are locked until after the Rule 5 draft.
This is correct.
It’s only the deadline for adding players to the roster. You can cut anybody you want at any time.
Moves
I think, exactly as WTM said, that they will remove guys for a Rule 5 pick or mid-level free agent.
There are just some really terrible guys still on the roster.
Perhaps NH has decided that the best time to slip them through waivers is closer to the Rule 5 draft. I’m not sure why he’s worried, though. Who cares if you lose Bixler or Cruz?
You need players
in the system whether they are in AAA or MLB can be debated but to keep from rushing other middle infielders you need some older guys that can be moved back and forth between AAA and MLB.
buccoben
I agree with your point. But that doesn’t mean you can’t sign equivalent guys as minor league free agents.
I think you could find 10 guys as good as Bixler or Cruz as backups or as Indy starters.
As I mentioned, I’m just puzzled by some of the decisions with the infielders and pitchers. Some surprising choices were made. I just think NH will be making more moves.
Unfortunately, I think NH clinging to Bixler and Cruz shows how little faith they have in Cedeno.
They’ve already got too many infielders for AAA. Bixler, Cruz, Argenis Diaz and Friday should all be there if they’re still around, and I’d hope to see D’Arnaud and/or Mercer win a promotion at some point. Nobody can shift to third because Alvarez and Walker will be there—no idea how they’ll handle that. Bixler’s played a fair amount in center, but they’ll have Gorkys and Tabata. And they’ve got to find a pretty good minor league veteran, because if Cedeno goes down for an extended time, they’d be back to Bixler/Cruz, and we’ve seen how well that works.
And...Cedeno's winter ball numbers...
are MUCH less than inspiring. .216/.216/.324 for an OPS of .541…with ZERO walks in 79 plate appearances. The same league that Neil Walker (who supposedly doesn’t have any patience) has 17 walks in 120 PA. Walker…BTW…has .267/.370/.448 for an OPS of .819 with 4 HR, 16 RBI and 24 K in those 120 PA.
It's not nice
to make a grown man cry:
if Cedeno goes down for an extended time, they’d be back to Bixler/Cruz, and we’ve seen how well that works.There’s no call for that sort of talk, WTM.
no wonder why we can not win more than 1/2 our games
The forty guys making this roster remind me of the first movie major league. On a serious note i do not see any possible way this type of roster can finish above 500 never mind compete in the central division. Looks like it will be another LONG year, unless we sign some key free agents. I won’t hold my breath on the latter comment instead I will go into next year without the normal optimism; I have come to accept my fate as a fan of a team which is doomed for failure immediately after the first pitch of the season! I would like to thank Mr. Dave Littlefield for all his accomplishments while G.M. of this franchise along with all his enablers who so willingly let him use his bird size brain to BETTER THE FRANCHISE! Huntington is probably kicking himself in the backside for taking this job not because of the fans, but due to the complete lack of talent he inherited! He can look at the bright side at least he has a job in a dismal economy!
Pilgrim34
is right. This roster is awful. And to prove it, look what you guys are arguing about: back-up catchers and reserve infielders. I wouldn’t worry about the reserves until the front office does something about the starters. I’ll still be a fan, but this team has holes all over the diamond.
40
IN MY 40s were not included b.bixler, l.cruz, s.pearce,p.dumatrait…
If I were Neal Huntington,
I’d be looking very seriously at free agent Japanese left-hander Hisanori Takahashi who just announced his intentions to play in MLB in 2010. Takahashi went 10-6 with a 2.94 ERA in 25 starts in 2009 for the NPB champion Yomiuri Giants. I think he would be a useful pitcher for us, more probably as a situational lefty, if we could get him at a reasonable price.
I think
Robizon Diaz gets us a player via trade rather than claimed off waivers; he’s just to good a stick…
Too good a stick?
Are we talking about the same guy? The one who has a career 76 OPS+, who put up a .657 OPS at AAA last year, and a .727 in the minors the year before that?
A
.657 OPS for Diaz would place him 9th in MLB in OPS for catchers. A .727 OPS would place him around 6th.
You’re joking, right? That’s 9th or 6th out of ten. You’re just looking at catchers who qualify for the batting title, and very few do. If you look at all catchers with 200 or more ABs, a .657 OPS would rank 34th.
Please excuse
Me for being wrong, I beg forgiveness.
I guess Jarimillo and most other catchers in the major leagues are better hitters than Robizon Diaz.
I am not worthy to even post on this board with you experts, sorry for wasting your time
I don't care that we cut Karstens or Diaz
and I think everyone should be more concerned about whether or not we can add a couple of players through free agency that might actually have a positive impact on the club next year.
Sounds like a name out of
A Tale of Two Cities.
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