Iwamura on his way to the Pirates?
Dejan Kovacevik is reporting via Twitter that the Bucs are involved in trade talks with the Rays for Iwamura. MLBTradeRumors.com is also reporting that the Rays are on the verge of dealing Iwamura to an NL club.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/
We need some middle IF's and the Ray's don't want to pick up that option so it looks like there is a potential match here. Iwamura is supposed to be a good defensive 2B and the move would put DY on the bench where he probably belongs. Is this a good move for the Bucs if we don't give up anything of consequence? Let me know your thoughts.
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just saw it!
whew! trades get me excited, and i m glad to see NH into it again…
now, what do we give up? from the way its being reported, it sounds a complex deal, which sounds not good, unless there’s a 3rd team involved (unlikely)
if we don’t give up anyone of consequence, bixler/cruz/lerud, i m fine with it… sounds to me like lerud/diaz/jaramillo might be frontrunners if its a deal of any consequence… at the same time, it doesn’t interest me a lot, unless we expect him to become trade bait soon…
here’s another thought- its common knowledge the Rays wanted doumit at some point… could this be a multiplayer deal?
by BurgherKing on Nov 3, 2009 4:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
also
wonder if the bucs are haggling on taking on the full contract… mlbtr is reporting that florida wouldnt wanna pick up the whole tab…
by BurgherKing on Nov 3, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I suspect that the quality of the player going back...
…is a function of the amount of money we’d be picking up. That’s usually how these things work.
If Iwamura’s fully recovered from his injury, then he’s worth full price on the option.
by Vlad on Nov 3, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
in this case, it might be slightly different
iwamura is, more likely than not, worth the option value… but, is he worth it to the pirates for a year? if Laroche is going to be 2B after that, shouldn’t he start asap?
i wud guess lerud is who the pirates would like to give away, and the rays will want jaramillo or diaz, with barajas also a free agent… i dont see the pirates going higher than this if its a 1-1 deal…
lower than that might include, walker, bixler, cruz…
by BurgherKing on Nov 3, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Dejan said that Pedro isn't up until June/July.
And we need a 3B until then. So why not use Iwamura at 2B and LaRoche at 3B until then, with LaRoche getting starts at 2B on Iwamura’s rest days to get acclimated?
I doubt the Rays would have much interest in Lerud. He’s waiver-bait at this point.
by Vlad on Nov 3, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so's iwamura
he walks free if not traded…
i see what u mean in terms of value…so it could be diaz/jaramillo, or even doumit (as i pointed out in the first post) who’s interested the rays for a while, but it would take more than iwamura alone, i guess…
by BurgherKing on Nov 3, 2009 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My guess would be Diaz, not that that means anythinng.
by maguro on Nov 3, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
my guess is jaramillo
my hope is walker
by BurgherKing on Nov 3, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I think it's going to be a low-minors arm.
Keeping my fingers crossed for not Uviedo.
by Vlad on Nov 3, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i would hate for it to be a low-minors player
someone who has a lot of time to develop, and become productive… wouldnt make a lot of sense for the bucs at this point…
also, the rays want to compete now, and have a solid enough system, i think…
if its not a catcher or AA-AAA type, i think its quite likely a multi-player deal…
by BurgherKing on Nov 3, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You can never have too much young pitching.
The Rays have become competitive by continually refreshing their low-minors depth. They actually have something of a logjam as far as nearly-ML-ready talent (between Davis and McGee and Hellickson), so a guy who’s a few years off might actually work for them.
A catcher is possible as well, I guess, but I don’t see what they’d want with Diaz or Lerud, and after Jaramillo’s 2009 I think he’d be overpaying.
by Vlad on Nov 3, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wouldnt make sense for pittsburgh
to give up a low minors pitcher… remember how rudy owens broke out?
i d think jaramillo and diaz are comparable, save jaramillo switch hits…
by BurgherKing on Nov 3, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For every Rudy Owens...
…there are a dozen guys who never make it to AAA.
Though now that I think about it, Uviedo’s on the 40-man, so Tampa might prefer a guy that’s not rostered yet. Maybe it’ll even be a PTBNL, if he’s Rule 5 eligible.
by Vlad on Nov 3, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
skip barajas in above comment
mental messup with the AL east
by BurgherKing on Nov 3, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Zaun's a FA, I think.
So the point’s valid even if the name’s wrong.
by Vlad on Nov 3, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Could there perhaps be a Doumit/Dionner Navarro component to this as well?
by Mick Kraut on Nov 3, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
there could be doumit
but not navarro, cant see why the bucs would be interested!
doumit should cost much more than iwamura!
by BurgherKing on Nov 3, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LaRoche and Alvarez
Does this suggest they think LaRoche won’t fit a 2d, that Alvarez won’t fit at 3rd, or something entirely different? Makes some sense if the price is right. Maybe he can be traded for a bigger return mid season.
by Bradsbeard on Nov 3, 2009 4:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You can never have too much talent.
An extra infielder could be useful if we have an injury or a catastrophic collapse, and if everybody’s healthy and productive, we’ve got a spare trade chip.
by Vlad on Nov 3, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As far as Laroche and Alvarez...
I don’t think we are looking that far down the road. Laroche is still the 3B until it looks like Alvarez is ready. For Alvarez, best case scenario is that he is ready in June or July…best case. In the meantime we still need a 2B. If Alvarez is ready in June we can flip Iwamura…assuming that Laroche actually improves on last years performance. People who are saying we shouldn’t get a 2B because Laroche is the 2B of the future are taking way too many things for granted.
by Slick1 on Nov 3, 2009 4:48 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
SI is calling it "confirmed" as of 3 minutes ago
No details
by JRoth95 on Nov 3, 2009 4:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
St. Petersburg Times...
…says we may not get an official announcement until tonight, because they want to tell Iwamura before he hears it on the news, and it’s still very early morning in Japan.Link.
by Vlad on Nov 3, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Guys...
be aware that there’s a poison pill in Iwamura’s contract. According to Cot’s Baseball Contracts…when Iwamura’s contract approaches expiration…there are only 2 choices…sign him to an extension…or release him (which grants him immediate free agency). That means NO arbitration.
by Thunder on Nov 3, 2009 5:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
is the "sign him" arbitrary?
like if he demands $9M, the Bucs need to sign him or release him?
by BurgherKing on Nov 3, 2009 7:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Basically, all that it means...
…is that we aren’t allowed to offer him arb. If we come to an agreement about an extension, he re-signs. If not, he walks with no strings attached.
by Vlad on Nov 3, 2009 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Looking at the Rays depth chart...
the only places we may logically be able to help them are catching and pitching…unless Carlos Pena isn’t expected to return…and that would have to be totally injury releated. Or unless they are planning on ditching BJ Upton…in which case…they might be looking for an outfielder.
by Thunder on Nov 3, 2009 5:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Desmond Jennings is ready to step into the OF
Kid’s a killer (and not in the Elijah Dukes way).
by Vlad on Nov 3, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and Joyce, too.
If they want a corner guy.
by Vlad on Nov 3, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ken Rosenthal at Fox Sports...
says it’s Jesse Chavez…but I haven’t seen anyone else report names.
by Thunder on Nov 3, 2009 5:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i think thats crazy
for the pirates…
by BurgherKing on Nov 3, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Unless the Pirates were going to use Chavez as a closer...
I don’t think it’s crazy. We don’t have anyone in the bullpen that can’t be replaced.
by Thunder on Nov 3, 2009 5:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
true
and crazy is an overstatement…
but did well, many good years of control… wouldnt want to give him up for a year in a noncontending situation
by BurgherKing on Nov 3, 2009 5:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
1 year of Iwamura for 5 years of Chavez seems like a bad swap – but Dejan says there’ll be another player involved.
by JRoth95 on Nov 3, 2009 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The deal is somewhat shortsighted if there isn’t at least semi-quality player with years of control coming to us.
by Adam Reynolds on Nov 3, 2009 7:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's only short-sighted...
…if they aren’t able to replace Chavez.
Righty relievers are a dime a dozen. I don’t think we’ll have too much trouble.
by Vlad on Nov 3, 2009 7:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You’ve convinced me. Chavez is actually just replacement level by the numbers.
by Adam Reynolds on Nov 3, 2009 7:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Vlad but...
he was a rookie with 6 yrs of control. Those numbers aren’t bad for a rookie who pitched in high leverage situations. I agree that relievers are interchangeable parts but you can underestimate the years of control. NH must not be convinced that Chavez can turn a 2nd pitch into an average pitch. That’s my take anyway. I’m still going to reserve judgement until I find out out who the 2nd player is. I don’t hate this trade but I don’t love it right now either. I do think it makes us a better club next FWIW.
by Slick1 on Nov 3, 2009 7:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You have to look at his peripherals, though, which I was too lazy to do when I first logged in to comment. A tRA of 5.48 is abysmal, and means he’s very replacable and there are a dozen in each organization who can match it basically. So if it’s a reliever without any upside, maybe 6 years of control isn’t as valuable as it seems.
by Adam Reynolds on Nov 3, 2009 8:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And yet
We weren’t able to run anybody out there who was as good, Hanrahan excepted.
I’m a big believer in cobbling together bullpens year to year, but that doesn’t mean I think you should throw away useful pieces already in hand.
If Iwamura were a bit younger, I’d be more excited about this. But as it is, I don’t want him on a competitive Pirates team – I don’t believe that he’ll be a plus player in any of the years that we should/could be good. With Chavez there was at least a chance.
But I don’t want to sound like I’m angry about this trade; I’m ambivalent, shading skeptical. I look forward to seeing this guy play, and I hope to hell he does well for us.
by JRoth95 on Nov 3, 2009 11:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We didn't "throw him away".
We exchanged him for something that we needed more.
Presumably, after trading away a reliever, we’ll be more proactive about pursuing relievers this offseason.
by Vlad on Nov 4, 2009 8:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also:
I don’t know what it’d take to make you happy. Down the stretch, you said over and over again that you hated how uncompetitive the team was, and that the team wasn’t operating in good faith by running out such a bad lineup.
Now that they’ve substantially upgraded that lineup for 2010… you’re unhappy because the move doesn’t build toward the future?
by Vlad on Nov 4, 2009 8:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Rosenthal was speculating about Chavez. He’s not that great, but I don’t think the Pirates can really afford to part with him right now.
by WTM on Nov 3, 2009 5:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don't know that he was speculating.
I’ve seen several reports…however…that the Rays were required to do something (pick up option, extend contract or release) within 24 hours of the end of the World Series.
by Thunder on Nov 3, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's now approaching 8 am in Tokyo...
so I’d say that if we are going to hear something tonight…it’ll be in the next few hours. Otherwise…I wouldn’t expect to hear much until after the WS ends…which means MLB has asked the teams to hold off on the announcement. Selig doesn’t like anything taking the limelight from the World Series…not that this trade would be a distraction from that.
by Thunder on Nov 3, 2009 5:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
According to mlbtraderumors
Buster Olney also reporting it’s Chavez.
by Thunder on Nov 3, 2009 5:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
According to DK...
via twitter…the Bucs are most likely getting another player. I have no idea who that would be. I still don’t know what to make of this deal yet.
by Slick1 on Nov 3, 2009 5:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Interesting.
Tampa has lots of depth in lots of areas – the second player could be something interesting/useful.
by Vlad on Nov 3, 2009 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i agree with that
but tampa will not just give someone up, so we get a prospect in the lower minors…
not sure how i feel about it… chavez has been good, and i hate to see him thrown away for iwamura, who will likely not be any more than a stop gap… we could potentially contend while chavez is still in pitt, like in 2 years… when he enters his first arb year, so its just a question of how good he becomes…
by BurgherKing on Nov 3, 2009 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Chavez out-pitched his peripherals last year.
I woudn’t be surprised to see him take a step back in 2010.
by Vlad on Nov 3, 2009 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
his FIPs were in the high 4s i believe
so its not a huge thing… and relievers are easy to replace… still, he was one of those people who didnt seem to blow everytime in big situations… i guess pittsburgh’s way of thinking is that iwamura could be a valuable trade piece…
by BurgherKing on Nov 3, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
More likely...
a “troubled” Class A pitcher that throws hard…and has “potential”…based on previous trades.
by Thunder on Nov 3, 2009 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's not a hard thrower...
…but what the hell – I’ll put a nickel on Heath Rollins.
by Vlad on Nov 3, 2009 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you want someone rawer and livelier...
…maybe Jason McEachern or Joseph Cruz? Kyle Lobstein or Alex Colome would be nice gets, but I think both are probably too valuable at this point.
by Vlad on Nov 3, 2009 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jesse chavez
They said there announcing it tonight, Buster olney reported it at 4:34
by Skipper22 on Nov 3, 2009 6:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
We have essentially traded Jesse Chavez for Tim Alderson and PTBNL.
Eh, I guess that’s selling Freddy short a little bit, but not a whole lot IMO.
by Adam Reynolds on Nov 3, 2009 6:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i hate MLBTR- 2questions
what does Kovacevic mean when he says we will “probably” get another player? and what does mlbtr mean when they say Kovacevic “believes” that?
Some source involved, I hope, seeing as its DK.
Second, when does MLBTR put its titles in green? or is that the color of the link after you visit it?
by BurgherKing on Nov 3, 2009 6:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
fanned on the second question
its link visiting…
by BurgherKing on Nov 3, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Taking those in reverse order:
No idea as to the link color. Looks dark navy to me.
Dejan says “Pirates probably will get another player in Iwamura deal” in his tweet, so that’s why MLBTR used “believes”.
My wild-ass guess as to the ambiguity around the 2nd player is that it’s a PTBNL or cash, with the player they’re targeting being an unrostered guy who’s eligible for the Rule 5, and they don’t want to name him right away in case he gets picked by somebody else.
Or it could be that Dejan has gotten contradictory info, and is just hedging to cover his bases.
by Vlad on Nov 3, 2009 7:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dejan now reporting...
trade is official…Iwamura for Chavez…straight up…no other players or cash involved.
by Thunder on Nov 3, 2009 7:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
there we go then
equally, unless by some strange chance, we are in contention at the deadline, i can only think iwamura has been acquired as potential trade bait
by BurgherKing on Nov 3, 2009 7:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's been acquired...
…because we needed a 2B for 2010, and he presented us with an opportunity to get a good one fairly cheaply. Simple as that.
If Pedro and LaRoche and our 1B (Jones, Clement, whomever) are all playing well at the deadline, then maybe he becomes trade bait… but that’s not the primary goal.
by Vlad on Nov 3, 2009 7:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if thats the case, the primary goal isnt good
if we are going to have laroche at 2B long term, why spend money unnecessarily on someone?
everyone will get better with more playing time, as would DY and LaRoche… I can’t believe NH was thinking about anything other than he can turn Jesse Chavez into 2 prospects with higher ceiling. I still feel we could have and should have gotten by with less than Chavez (although whether Jaramillo/Diaz is less than Chavez is arguable- I think not)… again, 2B on the wrong side of 30 (i think, didnt check this up), ~5M contract… had what was expected to be a season-ending injury last year… something doesnt add up…
by BurgherKing on Nov 3, 2009 7:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing wrong with spending money...
…if you get something of quality for it.
At this point, it’s not a given that LaRoche will be able to play 2B, or that Pedro willbe able to play 3B, or that Jones won’t turn back into a pumpkin, and we have virtually no infield depth in the upper minors. We needed to add to our depth.
As to the rest of your post, I still don’t understand why Tampa would’ve wanted Diaz, or why giving Young a whole bunch of playing time would be anything but a disappointment waiting to happen.
by Vlad on Nov 3, 2009 10:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
purely that iwamura doesn’t have as much value to the team, as a year option, as chavez might have over time. It’s good that we get a good player for a year, but I don’t know if the cost is worth it. If we were dealing from a position of depth (catcher), then it would be fine, but the bullpen is not one for the Bucs, at this point in time. Chavez’s principal issues, IIRC, were with inherited runners and HRs. He was about average in the rest of the categories. And, you could expect him to become really good with experience. I agree with NH’s statement of 600 ABs being harder to find than 60 IP- the only question is whether its worth it at this point in time. None of Aki’s peripherals are particularly great, solid, but not great.
TB has been on the lookout for a catcher, Diaz/Jaramillo would be expendable (although probably not, if we are planning on dealing Doumit soon), and really the Rays were not in a position of strength in this deal- Iwamura would have walked without the Rays getting anything. Under those circumstances, I was hopeful we could get away with dumping a far-less-useful piece (Walker, Cruz, Bixler, any 2!) and Diaz would actually be a serviceable ML player.
I get he’s a good pickup, he’s a good player, and if we were hopeful of contending, he’d be a great pickup and I’d give up Chavez in spite of a thin bullpen, if we had the rest of the pieces (bullpen being easy to replace etc). Just, under the circumstances, I don’t think it’s a great move, esp since Chavez showed signs of being able to contribute at this level.
That said, if the season starts well, Aki would be a good contributor, if he stays healthy, and if not, he would be a good trade chip. So if we turn Chavez into a good prospect or two, I guess I m not too upset with that.
by BurgherKing on Nov 4, 2009 8:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tampa had been on the lookout for a STARTING catcher.
Diaz is not a starting-caliber player, so they would’ve had no use for him. Jaramillo might be able to start, but that potential makes him significantly more valuable than Chavez, so it would’ve been dumb to move him.
You’re significantly overrating Chavez. I’m going to leave it at that.
by Vlad on Nov 4, 2009 8:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not so sure about that.
Why do they “need” a 2B in 2010? There’s no way they’ll be in contention, and there’s probably at least a few FA 2Bs that can be had on the cheap. Not as good as Aki, but still.
I agree with King. The PIrates got Iwamura as a buy-low candidate, and they intend to see how it goes and try to sell high at the deadline.
http://fanhuddle.com/pittsburghpirates
by Nate Rose on Nov 3, 2009 8:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The 2Bs onthe market this offseason...
…suck. The only decent ones are Type As, who would cost us our 2nd to sign, and be more expensive than Iwamura besides. I’d rather give up a fungible eighty reliever than a high draft pick, and I’d rather have a solid player at $5M than a solid player at $6-8M.
by Vlad on Nov 3, 2009 10:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
This I agree with. I’m trusting Vlad on the background, but I certainly would rather give up Chavez than a 2nd round pick, and don’t see much point in paying much more than $5M for a stopgap 2B.
by JRoth95 on Nov 3, 2009 11:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ugh
Trading a young reliever, one of the only useful relievers we fielded last season, for an OK (average hitting and field) second baseman who will be 31 next season? Young didn’t knock anyone’s socks off but his RF/9 and OPS+ were virtually the same as Iwamura’s last year. I guess I just don’t see the point.
Jason
The Hanging Curve
by poorboywilly on Nov 3, 2009 7:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Chavez was a well below average reliever last year. Iwamura has been a very average second baseman each of the last three years. That’s an upgrade.
Pittsburgh Lumber Co.
http://mvn.com/pittsburghlumberco
by MBandi on Nov 3, 2009 7:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You don't see the point...
…because you think that Young was roughly equivalent to Iwamura, and he wasn’t anywhere close. UZR has Iwamura as basically an average 2B glove, and Young as a -14 defender. Young’s sample is very small, but since his reputation coming into the season was terrible, and the Dodgers moved him off the position in the minors, it passes the smell test.
Iwamura was also a slightly better hitter. On the whole, he’s a significantly better player.
by Vlad on Nov 3, 2009 7:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And:
IMO, he’ll help our pitchers a helluva lot more,
With Heads-up plays like this.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 3, 2009 9:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
An interesting take on this type of trade...
…is made by fangraphs.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-value-of-a-win-to-a-losing-team
by scully0505 on Nov 3, 2009 8:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
My take
. . . is that, at minimal cost, I don’t have to watch Delwyn Young at second for a whole year. And that’s a good thing.
by WTM on Nov 3, 2009 8:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nail + head = you.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 3, 2009 9:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What I've been saying
Not about this trade, but about strategy for 2010 in general. From the linked article (by Dave Cameron):
but for the long term health of the franchise, those wins that take you from laughingstock to mediocre are still important, especially as they relate to revenue.In several threads talking about offseason strategy, free agents, and the trajectory of this roster, I’ve been trying to make this point. Glad to see a guy like Cameron on my side.
by JRoth95 on Nov 3, 2009 11:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
but for the long term health of the franchise WTM, those wins that take you result from laughingstock to mediocre Delwyn Young not playing secondbase are still important
by WTM on Nov 4, 2009 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Iwamura is a good player, but he or LaRoche is going to have to be out the door at some point when Pedro gets to Pittsburgh. It makes the 2010 Pirates significantly better, but I have to wonder if he can still play well once this team is actually competitive.
I don’t think losing Chavez is the end of the world, though, and it’s exciting to get a recent pennant-winning, very defensively stout second baseman.
by Suffering Buc on Nov 3, 2009 8:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
So maybe by the time Pedro's ready...
…one of them is playing like a guy who deserves to get pushed out of town.
Or if not, maybe Pedro goes to 1B a year or two early.
by Vlad on Nov 3, 2009 10:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
After being a little bit disappointed when the PTBNL was unconfirmed, I’m still pleased with the deal and it takes us in the right direction at least in the short-term and maybe in a longer view.
Do the Pirates now go after a shortstop, or is Neal still strangely satisfied with replacement-level output over there?
by Adam Reynolds on Nov 3, 2009 8:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
So where does Iwamura hit ?
I thought he led off for the Rays, but I guess he’d bat second. If so this might look like a real line up
1.’Cutch CF
2. Iwamura 2B
3. Jones RF
4. Doumit C
5. Millage LF
6. LaRoche 3B
7. Pearce 1B
8. Cedano SS
Not bad, give or take a player
"Baseball is better than football. Think about it, eighty degrees, a cold beer and a short-sleeve shirt is better than 30 degrees, a hip flask and six layers of clothes under a lap blanket. Take your pick: suntan or frostbite. " - Thomas Boswell
by Ketcham Bruce on Nov 3, 2009 8:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He hit second
For TB, he will do the same in Pittsburgh.
by Slizeezyc on Nov 3, 2009 8:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Having DY back as a pinch hitter will be nice.
by Suffering Buc on Nov 3, 2009 8:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Delwyn at 2B hurt both the starting team and the bench. This move is really a dual upgrade.
by WTM on Nov 3, 2009 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
With that lineup...
I’d rather see Jones at 1B and Moss in RF than Pearce at 1B… Pearce is not really an upgrade over Moss with the bat, so I’d rather maximize the good defense.
by escroll on Nov 3, 2009 9:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
Let’s give Moss another 4 months..Please. Jones/Pearce fight it out over 1b. Forget about either playing anywhere else.
by GeneClines on Nov 3, 2009 9:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
From your lips (or in this case, fingers)
to JR’s ears…
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 3, 2009 9:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yes Lord....
…could we PLEASE have four more months of Brandon Moss. What next, four more years for G.W. Bush?
by Brakeman8 on Nov 4, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t have a problem with giving Moss four more months, as long as those months are November, December, January and February.
by WTM on Nov 4, 2009 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude
Let’s forget about Doumit hitting cleanup…Doumit cleanup = 90 losses
by GeneClines on Nov 3, 2009 9:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You mean, if Doumit doesn’t hit 4th, we’ll win 80?
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 3, 2009 9:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I think maybe…at the moment..i’m thinking 500 is a real possibility.
by GeneClines on Nov 3, 2009 9:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
with the +2 wins via iwamura?
i guess i shud get used to calling him aki!
by BurgherKing on Nov 3, 2009 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I just tried to post the closest line up I could think of the previous season. I’d like to see Dewy bat 5th or 6th and somebody else stepping up.
"Baseball is better than football. Think about it, eighty degrees, a cold beer and a short-sleeve shirt is better than 30 degrees, a hip flask and six layers of clothes under a lap blanket. Take your pick: suntan or frostbite. " - Thomas Boswell
by Ketcham Bruce on Nov 3, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Since they are in the spending money mood...
…how about we go sign Rick Ankiel. He plays RF and Jones moves to 1B.
Cutch
Aki
Milledge
Jones
Ankiel
LaRoche
Doumit
Cedeno
If we had someone elseto lead off, I would rather see Cutch in the #3 spot.
by Brakeman8 on Nov 4, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like they're going to have a fair go at Ankiel.
He wouldn’t be a bad fit, if the price and terms are right.
by Vlad on Nov 4, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if we got ankiel, and played him regularly, i would go with...
Cutch
Aki
Milledge
Jones
Doumit
Ankiel
Laroche
Cedeno
P
I really like what Cutch can do from #1, and prefer he stays there…
by BurgherKing on Nov 4, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bullpen Arms
are such a crapshoot that I can’t really be upset about losing a RH pitcher who even with five years of control — I think options are more important for relievers than years of control either way — was considered a long shot for the team before the start of last year. If the scouting department feels Aki looked healthy in September, then he’s an upgrade over Freddy at a lesser cost (with the added benefit of having Alderson in the system now).
I assume he could also be dealt during the middle of the year if Pedro is ready and they want to give Andy a shot at 2B — not sure how that may affect Andy’s bat if he has to focus extra on a new position or whatever but it’s a wait and see approach there. The Pirates needed to acquire something above replacement level in the middle infield, and so this serves that purpose.
Even if you’re building for the future, it doesn’t do you much good to play subpar players who are also not a part of the future if you can avoid it. There was either gong to be a hole at 3B or 2B depending on where Andy played, so this fills the hole.
by Slizeezyc on Nov 3, 2009 8:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Amen about the pen arms
All you need to do is look at Cleveland in 07. Betancourt and Perez were lights out set-up men…and their bullpen has been a mess for two years running. Iwamura gives them a few options, mostly as a guy who is reasonably productive at 2nd. Also allows them Pedro room to grow in the minors (contrary to many reports, he can’t walk on water) and keep him there for as long as he needs. There’s nothing wrong with having infielders.
by NastyNate82 on Nov 3, 2009 9:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Langosch also confirms it. Adios, Chavvy, Konichiwa, Akinori !
Damn, and I was gonna buy a Chavez jersey this year, too….
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 3, 2009 9:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Bonus
You could probably get it on clearance now, much like a 85 Bengals jersey that says Johnson on it
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
by glass0941 on Nov 3, 2009 9:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
I’m buying a Bengals’ jersey.
Right after I get punched in the ’nads by a dwarf.
I was kidding about the Chavvy jersey.
I did like the kid, though.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 3, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also,
since Kuwata is gone, this will help our profile in Japan?
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 3, 2009 9:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yes
and Kuwata still does appearances in Japan on TV using his ol’ Pirates jerseys.
Whenever I think of Pirates in Japan, I think of it in katakana “パイレーツ” related to the super popular bikini idol duo of the same name in the ’90s:
by patthatt on Nov 4, 2009 1:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Holy cow!
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 4, 2009 5:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
RJ Anderson at Fangraphs is a lot more positive on Chavez than several commenters here:
Chavez is a right-handed reliever with a plus-plus change and velocity that sits in the 94-96 range. Thanks to that change he has a reverse platoon split, and is exceptional versus lefties. He figures to profile as a late inning reliever with the Rays, although he’s had issues with home runs which, if fixed, could really change the dynamic of his career arc.
by JRoth95 on Nov 3, 2009 11:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That last statement is funny:
“If he becomes a better pitcher, then he’ll be more successful!”
by Vlad on Nov 4, 2009 8:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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