Pirates rotation next year
by chrisiu10 on Nov 6, 2009 3:25 PM EST
52 comments
So the first three spots in the rotation, baring trades of course, are pretty much set with Maholm, Ohlendorf and Duke taking the three locks up. But what abou the rest. Free Agency starts soon and there are going to be some serviceable number 4 and number 5 guys out there.
I think Morton is going to be in the rotation baring injury. I'd like to see him in more of 5th starter role rather than the number 4 guy. Here are my candidates for the Pirates (Free Agent/Trades/Already in the organization)
Brett Myers: Told today by the Phillies they aren't pursuing a contract with him. Myers would be relatively cheap and could bring an experienced arm to our rotation. He'd be a number 4 starter if we get him.
Daniel McCutchen: Impressed a little bit at the end of the year in his September Callup. I like him more as a long relief type but I don't think the Pirates Management see it that way. Will be in spring training vying for the fifth starter job with Veal, Hacker, Karstens,Hart and whoever else they bring in
Kevin Hart: Was the Pirates 5th starter once acquired at the trade deadline. was very unimpressive but looks like the frontrunner for the 5th starter job. Would really like to see him as a middle reliever though I think he can be a very solid MR. He was lights out for Iowa Cubs outta the bullpen.
Donnie Veal: Pitched ok out of the bullpen this year but at times look like he didnt belong in the big leagues this year. The looks like he's on the outside looking in on the rotation for next year and will start the season at AAA and will be called up when hes ready or someone in the rotation goes on the DL.
Virgil Vazquez: More than likely not going to even make the opening day roster. Was bad when he pitched this year in the big leagues with a few good outings. He's in the same situation as Veal is.
Rich Harden: Cash would be a reason that he wont come, also might not want to play for a perennial loser. But Pittsburgh could be appealing for Harden because hed be an ace on the staff and he could pitch for Joe Kerrigan. Longshot this happens at best.
Jason Marquis: Marquis could be enticing to Huntington because he will be reasonably priced and might be as sought after as Harden or Lackey. He's familiar with the NL Central with his time with the Cubs and again Joe Kerrigan could be an enticing option for him. Another longshot but not as much of a long shot as Harden.
I didnt put Brad Lincoln in this list because hes going to start at AAA and will be a september callup next year.
What do you think? Did I miss anyone?
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Sheets
I think would be worth mentioning.
All in all, I would rather not see the Bucs sign any 4th-5th starter types; it seems that we have a plethora of those. I think it makes much more sense to take a gamble on a guy who could be the ace of the staff – Harden would fit that mold.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect Lincoln to be up in June, and hopefully that will displace Hart into the bullpen.
by escroll on Nov 6, 2009 3:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
bedard or pavano
Would be welcome additions. Both have had good seasons and have seen there value slip 4 various reasons. I think hart will replace chavezs spot in the pen. I’m really surprised when I hear people thinking that Veal could handle a starting job.
by Danatural08 on Nov 6, 2009 4:22 PM EST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
I agree about Veal
But everything I read says they see him as a starter….I personally like him in the long relief role or a mop up guy. But NH likes his ability to start and his performance in the AFL has solidified that I think so hes worth a mention
by chrisiu10 on Nov 6, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think they do see him as a starting prospect...
but I don’t think anyone really thinks he’ll be ready next year. At least not at the beginning of the season, if ever. He’s got talent, but a lot of issues to work through, and the AFL definitely ain’t the bigs.
by escroll on Nov 6, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Myers would be a sensible pickup. He has enough versatility to start or close for us. If we can’t do that, we should just go with D.McCutchen or maybe eventually Veal toward the end of the season if he progresses a lot.
by Adam Reynolds on Nov 6, 2009 6:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The fan in me...
…doesn’t want any part of Myers. He’s an asshole, and I’d rather root for someone else, even if it means fewer wins.
by Vlad on Nov 6, 2009 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I liek Myers as a buy low guy...
could be a number two and be shipped off to a contending team for a VERY good package of prospects.
by joegonzo on Nov 6, 2009 6:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The reason I shop at Walmart
is the same reason I wouldn’t mind us picking up Myers. They give us a benefit, to go along with baggage. In being a Pirates fan, Beggars can’t be choosers, and if we can get an upgrade at a position, we as fans, can only hope.
by Danatural08 on Nov 6, 2009 8:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I rarely play the clubhouse chemistry card, but I don’t think Myers is the type of player the Pirates want in a locker room of younger players. I could see him getting mighty pissed about losing and giving off an overall bad vibe.
http://fanhuddle.com/pittsburghpirates
by Nate Rose on Nov 6, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As a fan, I’d rather not root for a bunch of George Bush conservatives. Obviously, that’s not too practical especially in MLB, though.
by Adam Reynolds on Nov 6, 2009 9:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If they sign a skunk, so be it.
I lived through Jose Mesa and Wil Cordero in black and gold, so this probably wouldn’t kill me, either.
It helps to remember that you can root for the team without supporting the player in any way whatsoever.
by Vlad on Nov 7, 2009 9:12 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
What the hell does that have to do with baseball?
"So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded?! Yea. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets so a sample. There are 4 of us an you're retarded. Thats 25 percent." Southpark; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce
by gorillakilla34 on Nov 9, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I don’t care if Myers is a prick-my buddy lives in Philly and says many fans think of him that way-because if he helps you win games, you can live with jerks. The bigger question to me, is that even with his talent, he’s never put things together. He pitches well for stretches or even half a season…but never a whole one. Sounds like Darren Dreifort to me.
by NastyNate82 on Nov 9, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Myers very well may be a prick...
If I remember correctly, he punched his wife in the face in a restaurant. I wouldn’t mind if Adam Dunn played for the Pirates either and he is allegedly a giant prick himself.
All I want to know from Gorkys n’ Beans is what the hell does George Bush or “conservatives” have to do with baseball.
"So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded?! Yea. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets so a sample. There are 4 of us an you're retarded. Thats 25 percent." Southpark; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce
by gorillakilla34 on Nov 10, 2009 1:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He was making a point...
…about rooting for people with beliefs that he finds personally distasteful. He doesn’t like conservatives, but ballplayers these days tend to be Repubs because they’re in the top 0.1% income-wise, and he’s able to root for them anyway.
Of course, SB Nation was co-founded by Markos Moulitsas, AKA the Great Orange Satan from Daily Kos (which is why the site templates look so similar). So without lefties, none of us would be reading this here today.
by Vlad on Nov 10, 2009 9:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, Vlad
Lefties are really overrated in the bullpen.
by JRoth95 on Nov 10, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Making a point or not....
It was just an unnecessary comment. Would it be ok If I found homosexuals’ or jews’ beliefs personally distasteful but found a useful way to work it into a comment? If he doesn’t like them then fine root against them but I don’t want to hear about his damn political preferences, religious preferences or for that matter sexual preferences.
I’m not a liberal or conservative and I’d rather not hear people’s dumbass political pot shots brought into baseball conversations.
"So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded?! Yea. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets so a sample. There are 4 of us an you're retarded. Thats 25 percent." Southpark; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce
by gorillakilla34 on Nov 11, 2009 3:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OK, I regret that post. I didn’t mean for it to be equivalent to racism and homophobia.
by Adam Reynolds on Nov 11, 2009 5:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's not an apples-to-apples comparison.
Homosexuals and Jews are born that way (at least ethnically, anyway, in the case of the latter), but people select their political affiliation freely when they reach the age of reason.
by Vlad on Nov 11, 2009 8:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Personally...
…I think that beating the shit out of your wife puts you a few rungs lower on the social scale than “jerk”. Closer to the level of pimps and child molesters – and I wouldn’t want any of those, either.
by Vlad on Nov 10, 2009 9:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d actually agree with you, but it looks like the charges were dismissed according to Wikipedia (yeah, I know its unreliable).
by Adam Reynolds on Nov 10, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The charges were dismissed...
…because the wife said that she didn’t want them to prosecute, as is often the case with battered women. But the incident happened in public, with lots of witnesses, and there really wasn’t any doubt about what happened.
I’m all for giving people the benefit of the doubt (which is why I was willing to sign off on Milton Bradley – no witnesses and a high degree of amiguity about the facts of the situation), but in the particular case of Myers I just don’t think there’s any doubt for him to derive benefit from.
by Vlad on Nov 10, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I think it happened in Boston or something…I remember watching the Saturday afternoon game (Phils vs. Sox) and the people on Fox talking about it. The more I think about it, the more I don’t want the Bucs to make any sort of move on him….and thats before even getting to his personal issues. You’re right Vlad; if someone does something like what Myers did, jerk doesn’t do that person justice…
by NastyNate82 on Nov 10, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A bit overdone,
but this does show the Bradley / beer thing in L.A., and why I’d be loath to have him in PGH.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR5y4lTdDII
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 10, 2009 9:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dunno.
I watched it, and I didn’t find it particularly interesting or insightful.
Someone throws a bottle at Bradley while he’s in the field, and he goes over to confront the thrower and spikes the bottle on the ground, and in that scenario Bradley’s the bad guy?
He also loses one point for wondering whether anyone will sign Bradley this offseason, when Bradley’s already under contract. And a second point for, as a white guy, telling a black guy that he “just needs to get over” being called a nigger.
by Vlad on Nov 11, 2009 9:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's why I used the term "overdone."
It was in reference to your second point. You are absolutely right.
As far as the beer bottle, he should not have done what he did. Someone (either Bradley or a fan) could have easily gotten hurt. There are plenty of security people @ Chavez Ravine (having been there dozens & dozens of times, I know this firsthand), and he could have had the idiot fan ejected, without going ballistic – but that’s Bradley’s M.O.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 11, 2009 9:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it was a dumb thing to do...
…but no dumber than Carlos Zambrano beating up the Gatorade dispenser. The amount of attention that it received was grossly disproportionate to the actual offense, because a) it was Bradley, and thus an easy sell and b) there was fairly clear video, so it made for good TV.
Also, I’m not all that impressed with LA’s security. Remember this? Or this (with Bradley acting as the voice of reason, no less!)?
by Vlad on Nov 11, 2009 10:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bad examples...
Your first one happened at Wrigley Field, not Dodger Stadium. And as far as security at the latter, one doesn’t need a phalanx of guards to eject one rowdy fan.
You second example occurred at $2 beer night, and
“Dodgers center fielder Milton Bradley looked at the crowd and pointed to his head, encouraging fans to think, and fans in the left-field pavilion began a derogatory chant toward the offenders in right field.”hardly qualifies as “the voice of reason.”
.
Other examples of promotions gone wrong, as I’m sure you’re well aware: 10-cent beer night in Cleveland and Disco Demolition Night at Comiskey.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 11, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why doesn't that count?
He encouraged people to think before they act! Gallant himself couldn’t have done any better!
by Vlad on Nov 11, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty good,
considering he’s spent 99% of his time being Goofus.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 11, 2009 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe we should sign Keith Olbermann to be our 5th starter. He may not be able to pitch, but at least he has the correct political views!
by maguro on Nov 10, 2009 8:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank god you’re here to reply to all the late, stupid comments. What would we do without you?
by maguro on Nov 10, 2009 10:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Post more late, stupid comments?
You were criticizing Adam for the exact opposite of the point he was actually making, because you didn’t bother to read his post or think about he was saying.
If you don’t want to have to go around bawwwing because you’re all butthurt, then think before you post next time.
by Vlad on Nov 10, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How about as the color commentator? ;)
by Adam Reynolds on Nov 10, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Works for me...
His baseball blogging is excellent, regardless of how one feels about his politics.
by maguro on Nov 10, 2009 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Olbermann is the man when it comes to sports. My favorite SportsCenter anchor of all time.
http://fanhuddle.com/pittsburghpirates
by Nate Rose on Nov 10, 2009 9:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lincoln
If Brad Lincoln pitches well the first two months in Indy, don’t be surprised to see him up with Pedro(also if he plays well) in June; as they did with Cutch this year. Don’t be so sure he won’t be up until September.
by thefutureisnear on Nov 6, 2009 9:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I see the opening day rotation looking different from the final rotation.
Here’s my predictions:
Opening Day:
Ross Ohlendorf
Zach Duke
Paul Maholm
Charlie Morton
Daniel McCutchen
If we sign someone like Harden or Sheets, they would obviously go to the top of the rotation and McCutchen would be bumped to the ‘pen. I’m not so sure I see that happening, though. Kind of unfortunate, because Sheets/Ohlendorf/Duke/Maholm/Morton could be a pretty good rotation in the NL.
At any rate, by the last day of the season, I see it being more like this:
Ohlendorf
Duke
Lincoln
Maholm
Morton
http://fanhuddle.com/pittsburghpirates
by Nate Rose on Nov 6, 2009 9:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I know I'm being a homer,
but I think that we’re going to see big things from Morton this year. Electric stuff, and he seemed to be dealing with his inconsistency by the end of the year.
by escroll on Nov 6, 2009 10:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like Morton a lot. He has incredible stuff, and if he can walk a few less batters, he’d be a solid #2-#3 starter. However, as of right now he’s just a better version of Kip Wells or Ian Snell.
http://fanhuddle.com/pittsburghpirates
by Nate Rose on Nov 7, 2009 12:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would take
Jon Garland as our no.4. Nothing special, but he’s dependable for 200 innings and doesn’t completely suck. Just what a veteran no.4 should be
by Mr. E on Nov 7, 2009 2:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If I were to put money...
…on us signing any given veteran SP this offseason, I’d probably lay it on Brad Penny. He’s a hard thrower (highest average velo of the SP FA class), fitting in with Neil’s mandate on velocity. He’s a big body, of the sort that Greg Smith often likes. And his issues with durability and jerky-ness will probably lower his price tag enough that he’d provide good value on a deal.
by Vlad on Nov 9, 2009 1:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
IDK...
I think his upside will still price him out of our range. Do you think he is less of a risk than Harden? Frankly, I don’t think we sign any of the top starters unless one inexplicably falls to us. I think we’ll sign a couple of roster casualties like we did with Barthemeir, Dumatrait, Vaszquez.
by Slick1 on Nov 9, 2009 5:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We have a kajillion dollars to spend.
Thanks to last year’s deadline trades.
I think Penny is both less risky and lower upside than Harden, but I’m pretty sure we’re going to get out-bid on Harden (if we’re even interested), so he doesn’t so much enter the consideration for me.
As a minor quibble, we didn’t just “sign” any of the three guys you name: They were all waiver claims.
by Vlad on Nov 10, 2009 9:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Let not get a head of ourselves here
Realistically Harden and Penny arent coming to Pittsburgh. Yes we have money but the Yankees,Mets, Cards, Brewers, Twins, and Angels have more money to spend than we do. I think our realistic rotation free agent is Brett Myers and the odds of that are basically 10000 to 1. Like i said before I dont see us getting a starting pitcher because the Bucs are going to want to see what McCutchen has. The return we got from the Yankees in the Nady Marte deal was one for the ages and I’m sure the Bucs will not leave any stone unturned in this trade. McCutchen pitched pretty well at the end of the season and i think he could be a very solid number 5.
by chrisiu10 on Nov 10, 2009 9:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Penny isn't seen as a blue-chip item at this point.
Which is why I think he’s someone we could get. Big spenders are going to be tied up with guys like Harden and Bedard and Sheets and Wolf first, which might let Penny slip under the radar.
Injuries obviously affected Myers’s performance last year, but even so, his secondary indicators were awful (6.14 FIP), and as I noted earlier, he’s also a total failure as a human being. I’d pass.
by Vlad on Nov 10, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
One thing about Penny
And marginal second-tier guys in general, is that they can be signed early in the offseason if you’re willing to pay market value. As Vlad says, Penny has no guarantee of going to a contender, and he’s almost certainly not going to be picked up by a contender before everyone ahead of him is signed (in contrast, a solid second-tier guy, like Wolf, could well be picked up early by a contender that doesn’t need a Sheets, but would like to upgrade). So he’s got a long, anxious winter ahead of him, with the specter of a February desperation signing. Offer him a fair contract in November, and that can look pretty good, even if the Pirates don’t seem like an ideal situation.
by JRoth95 on Nov 10, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Big spenders are going to be tied up with guys like Harden and Bedard and Sheets and Wolf first
don’t forget john lackey
by johnnycuff on Nov 10, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It would be nice if Harden could be signed in the 2/15 range, and if he was healthy for a half year, to flip him for max value. One thing to keep in mind is that he was shut down in September with 3 weeks to go. For a guy with enough red flags, that doesn’t help.
by NastyNate82 on Nov 9, 2009 9:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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