Halladay/Doumit

by epoc on Dec 11, 2009 6:38 PM EST

I've never written a fanpost before, and I know that fans' trade ideas are generally stupid, but in light of reports that the Blue Jays are interested in Doumit and that the Phillies might be exploring three-way deals to land Halladay, I thought I'd muse a little bit on possible trade scenarios between the three teams. Here's what I came up with:

Pirates give up: Doumit and Ohlendorf - get: Brett Cecil and Kyle Drabek

Phillies give up: Happ, Kyle Drabek, and Dominic Brown - get: Halladay and Ohlendorf

Blue Jays give up: Halladay and Brett Cecil - get: Doumit, Happ, and Brown

Here's why I think it makes sense. For the Phillies, they have an amazing Championship window over the next 2-3 years that they need to take advantage of. Halladay (plus extension, I'm assuming) helps with that. They get Ohlendorf to round out their rotation with a cheap, decent, back-of-the-rotation starter. Obviously, it would hurt them to give up Brown, Drabek, and Happ, but they get to keep Michael Taylor who's closer to the majors than Brown, and having Halladay and Ohlendorf, while more expensive than Drabek and Happ, is a better suited tandem for a win-now approach.

For the Blue Jays, they get a good, cheap catcher (who's probably worth Halladay straight-up, considering the contract situations, if the Blue Jays aren't going to re-sign Halladay), a top-tier outfield prospect in Brown, and a good, cheap starter who's under team control for 5 more years. I think Happ's probably slightly more valuable a commodity than Cecil, and Doumit plus a top prospect is a good return for Halladay. This pacakage is about even with the possible Yankees offer of Hughes/Montero and better than the Angels possible offer of Saunders, Aybar, and Bourjos. I imagine the Blue Jays would like to keep Halladay from the Yankees, Red Sox, or Rays.

For the Pirates, they get two top-tier pitching prospects for Doumit and Ohlendorf. That's a very fair exchange and fits their rebuilding plan.

Based on Chone projections, 4m/win free agent rates, and 10% yearly salary inflation, I have the Phillies giving up 51m and getting 23m (plus a possible Halladay extension), the Blue Jays giving up 17 and getting 46, and the Pirates giving up 23 to get 22. The Blue Jays get the most value because they're trading the big star, the Phillies give up the most because they're getting him. The Pirates break even, but shift the value toward a possible window of contention in 2012-13.

What do you guys think?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.

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Comments

if i were the Jays

i dont do this ever!

not nearly enough- they should get more quantity at least plus the quality mentioned here. I don’t think the Phillies are giving up nearly enough… Halladay comes with 2 draft picks the next year for the Phils, so Happ and Brown for Halladay isnt nearly enough- at the very least you want a couple more prospects. And that’s assuming Doumit for Cecil is fair (it might actually be) but if you are the Jays, you dont want to give up young plays for an injury prone catcher… which is also why I think a PIT-TOR trade directly would be hard to pull off!

by BurgherKing on Dec 11, 2009 7:20 PM EST reply actions

Yeah

Jays get bent over a table on this one. Drabek should also be going to them.

by Suffering Buc on Dec 11, 2009 7:24 PM EST up reply actions

One thing to keep in mind

is that the Jays have a hole at DH, too. I think part of their interest in Doumit is that they think they could keep him healthy by rotating him through that spot. Also, Halladay is very good, but he’s also making 15.75 this year. He’s not a huge value at that price.

I did not factor that comensation for Halladay into the picture. That was an oversight on my part. That’s about 9-10M more the Jays are giving up and the Phillies are getting. Definitely a good point.

I agree with your main point: I’d want more for Halladay (+ Cecil) if I were the Jays. However, as I noted, this deal is better than either of the others being rumored, I think. Do you disagree with that?

by epoc on Dec 11, 2009 8:30 PM EST up reply actions

I m not sure I’ve heard packages discussed, in terms of what was asked- I’ve heard more about who’ll not give up what… it’s probably better than some of the speculative packages, but I also dont think it makes a lot of sense for the Phillies…

first off, while Halladay’s price may be a sticking point to the Jays, its good value on a contender (see Lowe, Derek). There’s some injury risk with Halladay, even though his last 3 years have been clean with over 30 starts, but I think the money will not be a big sticking point. I would think the Jays would still want both quantity and quality in the deal…

Now, about the Phillies- I think they balked earlier at including all 3 of Happ, Drabek and Brown, and I think they still will, even if Ohlendorf goes to them. Also, I think NH is more willing to move Duke than Ohlendorf, in spite of Ohlendorf having been slightly luckier with the BABIP. I probably should look up some stats, but I think Ohlendorf had a lower BABIP against than Duke, but his fastball velocity has been increasing and he has more control years. I’d be surprised if Ohlendorf was ahead on the “let’s move him” chart than Duke.

Doumit as the Jays DH- Doumit’s prime value is as catcher, although DH-ing, as you point out, will help his injury risk, but you can get good bats more cheaply than this.

I m curious though, as to what people think of the deal purely from the Bucs point of view… is it a no-brainer? Doumit for Drabek and Cecil for Ohlendorf? Right now Cecil is a worse pitcher than Ohlendorf- but Drabek is an elite prospect. I guess most people would lean toward doing it- I m not sure, Drabek has yet to pitch above AA, and while he’s a blue-chip prospect, I’d hesitate a little. I’d probably do Doumit for Drabek straight up (in a vacuum, not considering whether Phils need Doumit etc)

by BurgherKing on Dec 11, 2009 9:26 PM EST up reply actions

First off

I think it’d have to be Duke or Maholm to get NH to bite. Ohlie has more potential atm and is cheaper/under control longer. Do the Phils want 3 lefties? I guess it shouldn’t matter if they are quality. I don’t really know how good those prospects are but it seems Philly should be giving up at least 1 more player to Tor and possibly 1 to us as well (3 for Doc, 2 for Duke sounds right).

by Mr. E on Dec 11, 2009 7:25 PM EST reply actions

disagree

Ohlendorf is not that good. His component stats are far worse than Duke’s and Maholm’s and he’s roughly the same age as those two. I don’t think Philly would give up more than this. They’re already giving up a good young player and two top-tier prospects. If there’s a deal to be made between these three clubs, I don’t think it’s going to involve the Phillies giving up more than Drabek, Brown, and Happ.

by epoc on Dec 11, 2009 8:34 PM EST reply actions

fwiw

I dont think the Bucs will be involved in a 3-way deal for Halladay, and I dont think the phillies will give up more than 2 of the 3 but they will probably have to give up at least 2 more prospects, and decent ones…

by BurgherKing on Dec 11, 2009 9:27 PM EST up reply actions

You are thinking

as if the Phils are only receiving Halladay. They are getting him AND another decent starter. They definitely need to give more.

I also never stated Ohlie was better, just has more potential. Anyways, if duke and maholm truly are better, than even more reason Philly should give more.

by Mr. E on Dec 11, 2009 10:51 PM EST up reply actions

This was Ohlwndorf's...

1st year as a full time starter and he had a very nice year. Given that, perihperals aside, he is much more valuable to us that both Maholm and Duke given that we contol his rights longer. There is absolutely no way we trade him now unless we are completely blow away and he will not be part of any package. Duke is the pitcher that will be dealt because his ERA exceeded his peripherals and he is not likley to improve on last season.

by Slick1 on Dec 12, 2009 12:54 AM EST up reply actions

That, and Ohlendorf’s peripherals improved as the season went on.

http://fanhuddle.com/pittsburghpirates

by Nate Rose on Dec 12, 2009 1:21 AM EST up reply actions

After Ohlendorf upped his velocity with the delivery change

his results improved dramatically. If he performs as he did after the delivery change, he will be a 4-6 WAR pitcher.

If I’m the Pirates, there’s no way I give up Ohlie. There’s an excellent chance he will be markedly better than Duke and Maholm in 2010. If I trade anyone, it would be Duke.

by MarkInDallas on Dec 12, 2009 3:15 AM EST up reply actions

Well, if the Phillies weren’t going to give up even one of Drabek and Domonic Brown for Halladay at the deadline, they are definitely not going to give up both just to get Ohlendorf as well!

The Jays have rapidly shrinking leverage, because they probably can’t afford to keep Doc because of Vernon Wells’ worst contract in baseball (based on current trends it’ll be worse than the Zito when it’s over. And given that the Jays’ll have to give away Halladay (a pitcher on a HOF-quality career path) possibly because of Wells makes it the clear worst).

by Adam Reynolds on Dec 12, 2009 3:11 AM EST reply actions

On the Pirates side...

Are 3 years of Doumit and 5 years of Ohlendorf worth 6 years each of Drabek and Brown? I’d say no. Drabek may be great, but there’s no guarantee he’ll ever be as good as Ohlie will likely be in 2010, and you’re only getting one extra year.

Brown could be Andrew McCutchen, or he could be closer to Gorkys Hernandez. If I trade Doumit at this point, with 3 years of control, I’m wanting at least 2 prospects like that, one of which is a great shortstop prospect.

by MarkInDallas on Dec 12, 2009 3:28 AM EST reply actions

Ohlendorf

I know a lot of people on this site really like Ohlendorf, but I’d like to try one more time to convince you that he’s not good. First of all, his peripherals are not good. He had a 4.73 FIP and a 5.16 tRA last year in his “breakout” season. Those are both worse than league average. According to fangraphs, he was worth 1.1 WAR in 176 innings. Chone projects him for 1.2 WAR next year (Duke is 2.1 and Maholm is 3.0), but if you think he can pitch more than 156 innings you can bump him up to 1.5 or so.

Secondly, he is already 27, so any improvements he might make by getting more comfortable with pitching at the major league level are going to be offset by aging.

Third, his supposed improvement in the second half is not evident statistically, unless you’re talking about his tiny 21 inning sample from September and October (or you’re just looking at ERA). His K rate did improve with the increased velocity, but his walk rate correspondingly increased. His k/bb was 2 in the first half and 2.14 in the second. His hr/9 also increased in the second half. The reason his results were better is mostly because of a ridiculous, unsustainable .245 BAbip.

In conclusion, let’s compare him to Duke.

xxxxxDuke career – 4.57 k/9 2.37 bb/9 1.93 k/bb 0.85 hr/9 49.1% GB
xxxxxxxxxDuke 09 – 4.48 k/9 2.07 bb/9 2.16 k/bb 0.97 hr/9 47.7% GB

Ohlendorf career – 6.12 k/9 3.15 bb/9 1.94 k/bb 1.32 hr/9 41.5% GB
xxxxOhlendorf 09 – 5.55 k/9 2.70 bb/9 2.06 k/bb 1.27 hr/9 40.6% GB

Duke is 8 months younger. Ohlendorf strikes out more guys but gives up more walks, resulting in almost identical k/bb. But Duke gets 18% groundballs, which, even with fewer strikeouts, results in 31% fewer homeruns. That’s ridiculous. That’s why Duke’s FIP is half a run better than Ohlendorf’s. There’s no way Ohlendorf is better than Duke, let alone Maholm, and there’s no way in hell Ohlendorf is ever a 4 win pitcher, let alone 6.

Now it’s possible that Ohlendorf has more trade value, because he’s under control for 5 years, while Duke is only controlled for 2, or because GMs overvalue Ohlendorf just like some of you are. I have Ohlendorf’s surplus value at 15M, based on him being a 1.2 WAR pitcher right now and $4m/win free agent rates right now, and I have Duke as 5m in surplus value based on him being a 2.1 WAR pitcher right now. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that Ohlendorf has more trade value. Teams contending for a playoff spot will generally pay a certain premium in prospects in order to get a good player who will help them now. Considering that few teams don’t have enough below-average 27-year-old pitchers, I think the premium for Duke (a slightly better-than-average 27-year-old pitcher) will be much higher. That’s assuming that teams value Ohlendorf correctly.

Now, my trade proposal assumes that the Phillies overvalue Ohlendorf somewhat (they’re not known for being particularly stat-savvy), but that the Pirates value him correctly. In that case, I think that the deal makes sense for the Phillies, as it means slightly downgrading the 5th rotation spot from Happ to Ohlendorf, while giving just two top prospects for Halladay. I wouldn’t do it if I were them, but then again, if I were them, I wouldn’t be trying to trade for Halladay at all, and if they want him, they’re going to have to beat the Angels’ offer, which means either giving up major league pieces or giving up top-tier prospects. I assume they’d want to do the latter, as they should be going all out on Championship runs in the near-term.

For the Bucs, the trade is a tough one. Ohlendorf is replaceable, but he does have value, and Doumit has a lot of value, so the question is whether Cecil and Drabek are enough for them. It’s debatable, but if I were the Pirates I’d want to add some top-tier talent to their farm system after spending the last year and a half getting depth. Basically, I think that Drabek and Cecil is a tad better than Morton, Hernandez, and Locke, and that Doumit and Ohlendorf is a tad better than McLouth. I’d make the deal, but it’s a tough one.

If they’re really interested in Doumit (or if they’re seriously considering the Angels’ offer for Halladay), that means they think they can contend while they rebuild. That’s a dubious proposition in the AL East, but it’s possible. So assuming they want Doumit, as the report claimed, then I think the deal makes sense. Doumit has as much value as Halladay, but spread out over a couple years. Happ is better than the draft picks they’re losing, and Cecil for Brown is fair, except that with all the young pitching they’ve got (plus Happ), a top-tier outfield prospect is probably slightly more attractive than a top-tier, major-league ready pitching prospect (and of course, Cecil isn’t really top-tier in the way that, say, Tommy Hanson was at this time last year). I think I’d want more than that, but like I said, assuming I wanted Doumit in the first place, I’d rather do this than the reported Angels trade or the reported Yankees trade.

by epoc on Dec 12, 2009 12:49 PM EST reply actions

An interesting post, fun stuff to ponder. I would contend that Drabek is quite the catch, given that he has several plus pitches, and I would say that if the Bucs got him, he would immediately be the Bucs top pitching prospect. Of course, he already had TJ surgery, so he would fit right in. It shouldn’t make a difference to the Jays if they get prospects who are close to the majors, because if they trade Doc, they’re not going to contend soon anyways.

by NastyNate82 on Dec 12, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions

If Doumit is so valuable

why aren’t we dealing him for Joba and Montero?

Too much homerism going on all around.

Doumit is a huge injury risk and not so hot defensively. Duke is good, but he is what he is.

by Mr. E on Dec 12, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions

Value is..

in the eyes of the beholder. If another team sees either player’s value significant enough to part with a top tier prospect(s) I hope management will listen.

by MDBuc on Dec 12, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions

I'm been meaning to go deeper into Ohlie's stats and now I am

Since there’s no place you can see game by game FIP and tRA, I’m building my own. Previously I’ve been basing my opinion on WPA, which shows Ohlie having about a 3.5 WPA over a year if he duplicated his last 9 starts over 1 year.

Now I am creating a spreadsheet to evaluate FIP and tRA. I see that surprisingly to me, his FIP stayed the same before and after velocity change.

Next is tRA. I’ll see if I can have an answer on that.

One thing I notice is that Ohlie picked off 4 runners in his last 9 starts, and that might indeed haven something to do with his better ERA during that time.

by MarkInDallas on Dec 13, 2009 11:05 PM EST up reply actions

Probably food for another post...

but some interesting guys have been non-tendered today. Three that caught my eye were Jonny Gomes, Ryan Church, and Chien-Ming Wang. Of course all three have their negatives (or they wouldn’t be non-tendered) but does anyone see any possible uses for these three?

by NastyNate82 on Dec 12, 2009 5:49 PM EST reply actions

my instinctive reaction was: dont want gomes, but it looks like he had a career year last year- i m guessing we wouldn’t be interested in him or Church, since the OF si already crowded, and they would probably have some good offers…

Wang, I think, would be in the price range, although I dont see us offering him years and market value mayn’t be enough to get him to come…

by BurgherKing on Dec 12, 2009 7:38 PM EST up reply actions

Church…if healthy…might be a good catch if cheap.
Gomes…not only no…but hell no.. Strikes out about every 3rd AB…and about as good an outfielder defensively as Adam Dunn.
Wang…if totally healthy…yes…but don’t see his price being low enough for the Pirates to get him.

by Thunder on Dec 13, 2009 9:23 PM EST up reply actions

Wang could be had-he won’t pitch till May because of his shoulder, which may scare some of his suitors off. Gomes…would be nice as a platoon addition, but if the Bucs decide to combine someone with Jones, they may as well give Pearce another shot. Church…that might work too.

by NastyNate82 on Dec 14, 2009 12:15 AM EST up reply actions

I've wondered the whole time

why the Blue Jays even showed interest in Doumit, unless they’re trying to improve their team for the upcoming season. But at the same time, they’re trying to get rid of their best player. Doesn’t make sense, my guess is that the Jays interest in Doumit is about as serious as the Bucs’ interest in Chapman.

by Danatural08 on Dec 12, 2009 6:01 PM EST reply actions

We're getting back more talent...

…than we’re giving up, which is unrealistic.

I could see Doumit for Cecil in a 1-for-1, if the Jays like him as much as has been previously reported, but Drabek is a significantly more valuable commodity right now than Ohlendorf.

by Vlad on Dec 12, 2009 7:04 PM EST reply actions

You don’t think Doumit should fetch more than just Cecil? Shouldn’t Doumit fetch almost as much as McLouth (more risk, better contract)? Considering that there’s just as much risk with a non-elite pitching prospect as there is with an injury-prone semi-star, I’d think Cecil alone isn’t enough for Doumit.

To Mr. E: The reason the Bucs can’t trade Doumit for Montero/Joba is because a) the Yankees don’t need a catcher, b) Doumit’s contract doesn’t come with near-guaranteed draft picks when he departs, c) Doumit’s value is spread out over 2-4 years rather than concentrated in one, and d) Doumit’s not the type of player you pay that kind of premium for (which you only do for 4+ win players who you expect to put you over the top in a playoff chase). I don’t think it’s homerism to believe that Doumit should bring back a very good return in trade. If that can’t happen this offseason, it will happen this summer or next offseason, when he’s rebuilt his value (unless the Bucs think he’s an important piece for a potential contender in 2012 or ’13).

by epoc on Dec 12, 2009 10:43 PM EST up reply actions

I don’t question Ryan’s skill, I question his hamstrings and joints and knees and bones.

What happens to his value if he goes down again in march or april? I understand what you mean about his worth being spread over the length of the contract, but you don’t take into account the worth of that 15mil per year(or whatever it is) that will be spent elsewhere once Halladay is gone. I think Ryan is really good, but he doesn’t have the value of a top 5 starting pitcher. Anyways, all subjective I guess, good day.

by Mr. E on Dec 13, 2009 4:01 AM EST up reply actions

I don't see Doumit having the same value as McLouth.

Due to the health thing. And in any event, I like Cecil better than any of the individual players we got back in the Nate deal. If we were talking about Romero or Rcepczynski instead, I’d want a second player as well.

But even if you were to need/want a second player in a deal fronted by Cecil, Drabek is a hopelessly unrealistic expectation. I think a more likely scenario there is someone along the lines of Anthony Gose: a C guy who’s maybe C+ in the right light.

by Vlad on Dec 14, 2009 9:07 AM EST up reply actions

Hmm. That's interesting

Mr E: I definitely take into account the $16m that the Blue Jays are saving by getting rid of Halladay, but it’s negative value. If you figure $4m/win and Halladay as a 6 WAR pitcher, that’s 8m of excess value by keeping Halladay. If they trade him, they have to spend that 16m at market rates, which will only get them 4 wins. That’s why they would get good players in a trade. If the $16m savings was a positive for them, they’d just release Halladay, like they did with Rios.

Vlad: Looking back, I think I agree with you. I do think that Doumit has almost as much value as McLouth, because the contract is so much better, even though Doumit’s a big health risk, but thinking back on the McLouth trade, the Bucs got a major-league ready starting pitcher and two C+ prospects. Cecil and a C/C+ is probably about right for Doumit. The trick to the trade I proposed is the addition of Ohlendorf, and it requires the Phillies to value him more like MarkInDallas does (well, not that highly) than like I do. If anyone sees past the ERA, the deal collapses. Very true. The problem for me is that I have no idea how teams are valuing Ohlendorf right now. I’d guess there are at least a few who think he’s good and would be willing to give up value for him (like the Tigers with Edwin Jackson last year).

by epoc on Dec 14, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions

I have finished my tRA study on Ohlendorf

Looks like Ohlendorf’s tRA did in fact come down in his last 9 starts after the velocity change, but only by about .75 runs. This does bring him down in the above average range, but not the amazing change I was expecting. So, my previous optimism may be unfounded. He did have a 1.07 WHIP. We’ll have to see how he shapes up in 2010. He’s not the clear potential #1 or #2 starter I was expecting to find in these stats, though.

by MarkInDallas on Dec 14, 2009 11:41 PM EST up reply actions

I could see this happening if...

Dewy had the season from 2008 in 2009 and was an All-Star. The new BJ GM would need something positive to put in the Toronto papers. " Doc goes to Philly for Bucs All-Star " would be better than " Halladay goes for a often injured Pittsburg player "

"Baseball is better than football. Think about it, eighty degrees, a cold beer and a short-sleeve shirt is better than 30 degrees, a hip flask and six layers of clothes under a lap blanket. Take your pick: suntan or frostbite. " - Thomas Boswell

by Ketcham Bruce on Dec 12, 2009 9:21 PM EST reply actions

and yes I meant to mispell Pittsburgh

by Ketcham Bruce on Dec 12, 2009 9:22 PM EST up reply actions

A three-team blockbuster that would send Halladay to the Phillies and Phillies left-hander Cliff Lee to another club is under discussion, sources say.

could it be us?

by johnnycuff on Dec 14, 2009 3:57 PM EST reply actions

i'll answer my own question

cliff lee is rumored to be in the deal so if that’s the case i’m going to guess no.

by johnnycuff on Dec 14, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions

Could be Halladay to Philly, Lee to Toronto...

…and other stuff going to/coming from a third team.

by Vlad on Dec 14, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions

3rd team is supposedly the Mariners.

They are supposed to be getting Lee with Seatle and Philly sending prospects to Toronto. I don’t get this one from the Phillies perspective. They had enough pieces to get Halladay without having to give up Lee, even if they felt they couldn’t resign him. You’d think he’d have more value on the Philllies teaming up with Halladay and making another run at a world championship.

by Slick1 on Dec 14, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions

i agree

It seems weird to me that they wouldn’t give up certain prospects, but they were willing to give up their best pitcher. Lee at $8m is better than Halladay at $16m, and the Mets/Santana/Sabathia situation strongly suggested that exclusive negotiating rights for an extension probably isn’t worth all that much. Perhaps the Mariners are the ones giving up all the prospects in this deal?

by epoc on Dec 14, 2009 5:05 PM EST reply actions

apparently

the phils are giving up michael taylor… thats pretty big, dont know what the Ms are giving up… cant see anything so far :P

by BurgherKing on Dec 14, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions

I heard

aumont to tor, morrow to philly.

I also don’t see the point for philly other than Doc is apparently agreeing to an extension. Switching Lee to Roy and exchanging prospects just seems like a wash.

by Mr. E on Dec 14, 2009 8:11 PM EST up reply actions

not really

as it stands now (it = rumors), the Phils are giving up Drabek, Taylor, and getting back Aumont and Gillies. That’s a fail, and not close to a wash. Halladay better stay healthy.

I don’t understand how the Ms get away with what they seem to be getting away with- I’d have expected them to give up at least one of Morrow, Triunfel and Ackley, if not 2.

by BurgherKing on Dec 15, 2009 9:47 AM EST up reply actions

Can't trade Ackley yet...

Morrow is a reliever and has lost a little bit of his shimmer and so has Triunfel. That said Gillies and Ramirez are ok but not great. Aumont is a nice pickup though I think the Mariners got a steal and I can’t see what the Phillies were thinking. If the Mariners weren’t sending anything to Toronto why not just deal with the Blue Jays and keep Lee for another year? I don’t get it. Absolute robbery for the Mariners IMO.

by Slick1 on Dec 15, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions

Lee wants to explore FA.

Halladay’s giving them an extension in the deal. So they get an ace for four years, rather than a slightly lesser ace for one.

by Vlad on Dec 15, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions

they could have had both for a year

seems like the cash became a problem.

by BurgherKing on Dec 15, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions

As far as the Phillies not having enough money to keep Lee along with Halladay to make a super-run next year…those Ross Gloads and Chad Durbins and etc. really add up if you don’t use league minimum guys to fill those spots. Too bad, because I’d prefer the Yankees not repeat next year.

by Adam Reynolds on Dec 15, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions