Should Ramon Vazquez Keep His Roster Spot?
by Charlie on Dec 14, 2009 1:58 AM EST
43 comments
Interesting tidbit in the Post-Gazette today:
Looks like Rule 5 pick John Raynor will be in a one-on-one battle with Brandon Moss for reserve outfield duty this spring. Locked into the bench for now are Jason Jaramillo, Ramon Vazquez, Bobby Crosby and Delwyn Young. That leaves room for one outfielder, preferably one capable of backing up in center. And Raynor might be better there than Moss.
Unlike Dejan Kovacevic, I can only speculate on what will happen, but what should happen here? Vazquez is vaguely useful in that, you know, he can play a bunch of infield positions and isn't Brian Bixler, but Vazquez hit a sub-Bloomquistian .230/.335/.279 last year, making 2009 the fourth season in the past six in which he failed to top a .620 OPS. I mostly admire Vazquez's patient approach at the plate, but that's really all he had in 2009--he looked like was praying for pitchers to accidentally walk him. I liked the Vazquez signing when it happened, but his strong 2008 campaign with the Rangers now looks very fluky. With Bobby Crosby in the fold, there doesn't seem to be any reason to break camp with another utility infielder, especially since Young can also sort of play second.
There are probably five bench spots available, and one probably will go to a catcher, and another to someone who can play shortstop. Jaramillo, Crosby and Young look very likely to make the bench, at this point. Maybe Kovacevic knows something I don't, but if I were in charge, it wouldn't be particularly likely that Vazquez would make the team next year. Assuming for now that Jeff Clement starts at first base and Garrett Jones is in right field, Moss isn't an ideal fit for the bench because he's left-handed like both of those guys. But Moss is out of options, can remain under team control for several more years if he sticks, and (despite his terrible 2009) has some prayer of hitting in 2010. There's really no upside in keeping Vazquez, except as insurance in case Crosby or Ronny Cedeno gets hurt or doesn't make the team. And even leaving Moss aside for a second, I'd probably rather keep Raynor and Steve Pearce as the last two bench guys than give a spot to Vazquez.
Of course, worrying about the Pirates careers of Vazquez and (probably) Moss is a deck chairs / Titanic situation. If Pedro Alvarez comes up, Vazquez will be gone, and if Jose Tabata comes up or the Pirates acquire another corner player, Moss will probably be gone. In the meantime, though, I think he could be a pretty decent bench outfielder--I think he's a bit better as a hitter than he showed in 2009, and his defense is good. It would be nice to stick with him for a couple more months before dumping him completely.
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How much of his contract will the Bucs absorb? (always need to know about the money cause it’s what really matters).
Nunca! Nunca
My question, though, is why Delwyn Young is locked into a roster spot.
http://www.whygavs.com
http://mlb.fanhouse.com
I've been asking the same question...
I’m not sure I see his value like everyone else seems to. I like him better than Vasquez but that isn’t saying a whole lot. I guess versatility. He plays a bunch of positions though he doesn’t play any of them well.
To echo Adam, he’s a 100 OPS+ guy as a starter and a 114 OPS+ guy as a PH – that’s nothing to sneeze at (his switch-hit platoon isn’t bad, either – 104/89). He’s a bad fielder (although 2B is a useful position), but not a disaster for a couple late innings or a spot start. And defense is easier to work on/improve than hitting – his 2B certainly visibly improved over just a couple months last season.
By contrast, neither Pearce nor Moss have shown that they can hit ML pitching with any consistency and Vazquez looks to be more likely to be bad than mediocre as a hitter. I don’t think it’s any surprise that DY is the first guy you lock in, even if his future is 13th position on the roster. For right now, he’s at least 11th.
Pearce's numbers are fine against left handed pitching (what was his OPS+ against lefties).
He would be much more valuable to me in a platoon than DY would PH 100 times next year. Also, it was reported that Pearce was playing hurt last year so we may not have seen everything he had to offer. Just my opinion.
RHB L/R splits...
…are not predictive. All RHB regress toward a 1.09 ratio of #s vs. LHP to #s vs. RHP.
Yeah, I saw you posted that somewhere else after I posted mine.
I think I’d still rather have Pearce than Young or Vasquez.
I’m not a proponent of Young either, but he’s the only .700 OPS in this discussion.
by Adam Reynolds on Dec 14, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Now, I don’t doubt that Moss and Pearce could hit around .700+ since they are in their prime, but it’s getting harder to believe it until we see it with them if you know what I’m saying.
by Adam Reynolds on Dec 14, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Not strictly true.
Moss is exactly .700 for his ML career as a whole. Which puts him only .013 behind Young (and .004 ahead of Pearce).
Not a big deal, just pickin’ nits.
No Mas (Moss)
…and no Vazquez either…
Again, let’s not forget that with Young’s ability to play 2B, Aki’s ability to play 3B and Crosby’s ability to play all 4 infield positions we have a lot of moving parts. Plus, in a pinch, we would still have Bixler in AAA to cover a 15 or 21 day DL situation. So we really are 3/4 deep at 2B (Aki, Crosby, Young, Bixler (AAA)) and 3/4 deep at 3B (LaRoche, Crosby, Aki, Bixler (AAA)) and 2/3 deep at SS (Cedeno. Crosby, Bixler (AAA). Plus on top of all that, Cedeno and LaRoche can also play some 2B in a pinch. So I really see no need to keep Vazquez. If they can get even a minor league filler player, trade him just to get rid of the contract, if not…eat it and move on.
Also, a note on Crsoby. I keep seeing a few people mention that he can play 1B. yes, he can. Played morer 1B than anything else with Oakland last year. However, please remeber that Oakland uses a DH and made up for having Crosby at 1B by having Cust at DH. I doubt you see Crosby ever play 1B for the Pirates unless it’s a late / extra inning emergency type thing. With Clement, Jones and Pearce all aboe to play 1B there will never really be a reason to start Crosby there. Why would you?
I like the bench to be JJ, Pearce, Crosby, Young, Raynor with the starters being Doumit, Clement (with Pearce vs LHP), Aki, LaRoche, Cedeno, Milledge, Cutch and Jones.
"...Young’s ability to play 2B..."
Oh, come now.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 14, 2009 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
Bench
RV is terrible. His big year was in the Rangers hitter-friendly park. He’s not a good SS. I just don’t see any value. If this is a decision made on merits, I suspect he’ll be gone.
That’s not to say Moss is a star. But he still has some potential and upside.
RV has none.
Hitter friendly parks don’t affect singles and doubles too much. Never the less, RV’s 2008 seems to be a fluke. I would axe hm.
by MarkInDallas on Dec 14, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
I don't get the...
Clear ignorance towards an obvious platoon for the Clement/Jones 1B/RF situation.
Actually, Clement has hit LH pitching much better in the ML (+.086 vs LH), although it’s a very small sample size (Just 48 PA), spread out over a long period. But Clement has a career MiL split of +.030 in OPS vs. RH, and the split has been even more profound over the past two MiL seasons (especially this past season, as he hit +.245 OPS vs. RH).
Garrett Jones is just stupid. His career MiL splits are +.124 in OPS vs. RH pitching. His ML career split is even worse at +.285 OPS vs. RH. He’s an all-star against righties, below replacement against lefties.
Steve Pearce would be a great platoon partner at 1B for either one of these guys (I’m not buying Pearce in RF, while he’s probably our best defensive 1B). His career MiL split is +.059 vs. LH (and just like Clement, it’s been an even wider split in the past two seasons), while his ML split is just ridiculous at +.313.
Here is the thing about Moss, he has little to no split with a career +.009 ML split towards LH, and a career MiL split of +.012 towards RH.
As for John Raynor, he has a career MiL split of +.050 towards LH, but had a reverse split this past year in AAA.
What to make of this? It’s obvious that a Jones/Pearce split at first base (their natural position) would work really well. But it’s clear that the Pirates intend to give Clement every chance to take the 1B spot, and then have Jones play RF full time.
Either way, if the Pirates actually open up their eyes and realize that they have some options when it comes to platoons, that would mean that a guy like Vasquez is expendable.
RH batters' splits...
…regress toward a 1.09 ratio of the numbers vs. LHP to the numbers vs. RHP. As such, there’s no real value in looking at a RHB’s career L/R splits, as they have no predictive utility going forward. [Please also note that this is not the case for LHB or switch-hitters, whose splits are predictive.]
That said, Pearce does still make sense as a possible platoon partner for Jones and/or Clement.
Capps salary which is in Nutting's back pocket would pay for RV's salary if released
Bucs are looking at Kelly Johnson. Won’t get him for league minimum, so no shot at him. Not saying they should sign him, but might signal that they’re looking to drop RV in some way.
I'm still wondering
why nearly everyone is conceding the 1B job to Clement…
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 14, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
Because NH said he would like for Clement to win the job out of spring.
That coupled with Clement admitting that it’s time for him to show something makes me believe that he’s better than any in house options. He was the main piece, according to Huntington, acquired in the Wilson deal and I think he will get his shot. Nothing more than that. I’m not convinced that Clement would outperform Pearce if the job were handed over to him…though we all know it won’t.
He's the best option at this point.
By a fair bit. I wouldn’t say that it’s a lock, but it’s definitely the most likely scenario.
Vazquez should keep his roster spot....
…the only question is with which minor or major league team other than the Pirates should have him on their roster….
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