Damon, Bay and Holliday out in the Cold

I agree with the view here. I find it unfathomable that Bay turned down $60 million for four years to play in a place that seems perfect for him. If he goes to the Mets and Citi Field his numbers could spiral down precipitously. Same for Damon. Perfect situation in NY and he loved it. But, stuck to his guns and he's going to take a huge paycut.

about 2 years ago David Todd 20 comments 0 recs |

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To be honest

I never thought the Yankees really wanted Damon back. I mean, he’s a nice piece and all, but I think that the Granderson/Johnson Yanks look better than any likely lineup including Damon. I just think Damon is too limited in what he can offer nowadays.

Maybe I’m overestimating his decline, but I thought it was a joke when Boras said he wanted the same money he’d just been making.

As for Bay, I said from day 1 that he was a fool to turn the Sox down, and now he’s stuck facing a terrible situation in NY. I don’t so much mean the mess that is the Mets (altho that’s part of it), but Citi. Frankly, I think the Mets are foolish to want Bay, it’s such a poor fit (but then, when has Minaya cared about fit?). I realize there are budget issues, but IMO the Mets should be trying to make Holliday fit – he would instantly give them credibility, and be a longer term solution as well.

by JRoth95 on Dec 20, 2009 12:54 PM EST reply actions

Minaya is one of the worst GM’s in recorded history, and his interest in Bay is probably only a last ditch attempt to save his job and appease the fans. But it seems no matter what he does it turns out to be stinky.

As for Damon, I agree with you and the Yankees. I mean, would we even take him if he was free? I have an aversion for Scott Boras probably because I’m a management guy, but the only ones he can fool with some of his guys are Minaya and Jim Hendry.

by God Loves on Dec 20, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions

Damon

Maybe I’m overestimating his decline

Maybe you should wait until he’s in decline before estimating it one way or another.

I mean, would we even take him if he was free?

I’m not sure. He just had a career year with the bat but he doesn’t seem to be an NH type of player with the defense. I’m not sure his productivity, consistency and durability are enough to overcome that.

by azibuck on Dec 22, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions

For a guaranteed 3.0 WAR player, Pirates would pay about $9M.

I don’t see the Pirates paying fangraphs prices of $4.5 per WAR. With Freddy and Jack, their offers were for around $3M per expected WAR. Damon was worth about 3.0 WAR average the last 3-4 years. At Pirates prices that would be about $9M per year, but they probably would only count on 2.5 per year, so that’s probably about $7.5M per year that the Pirates would offer him.

Since he felt insulted that the Yankees wouldn’t give him $13M per year, I doubt he would accept the Pirates’ offer. Even at fangraphs’ prices, he was not quite worth the amount the Yankees paid him over the length of the contract.

by MarkInDallas on Dec 22, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions

As a team with a below-average revenue stream...

…we can’t afford to pay market price per win. It’s a losing game.

by Vlad on Dec 23, 2009 10:12 AM EST up reply actions

Agreed.

by MarkInDallas on Dec 24, 2009 1:10 AM EST up reply actions

Well

Per MarkInDallas, he’s a ~3.0 WAR player the last few years; that’s half a win above Andy LaRoche. Does anyone think Andy LaRoche is worth 8 figures?

by JRoth95 on Dec 28, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Bay

…If he goes to the Mets and Citi Field his numbers could spiral down precipitously …

Perhaps, but he will already have his money. Just sayin’.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 20, 2009 7:53 PM EST reply actions

Why is it unfathomable...

…that Bay would want to max out his contract value, rather than staying in Boston? He’s never really gotten a really huge payday before, and at his age, he probably won’t get another one after this. Some guys just want the Benjamins, and sure, it’s more fun to win than lose, but if Bay couldn’t deal with losing, he woudn’t have lasted in Pittsburgh, would he? Madden just kind of takes it as a given that Bay doesn’t want to play for the Mets, without providing any actual evidence.

As for Damon, he’s always been about the money. That’s why he was willing to run out on the World Champion Red Sox and join their most hated rival: The rival came through with the cheddar. Sure, he said he was having fun in New York, but I remember reading similar quotes from him in Boston, and in Kansas City before that. If he gets paid, I doubt leaving will break his heart.

by Vlad on Dec 21, 2009 9:50 AM EST reply actions

Sure maxing out ......

his contract value may be his goal. But, he also seems like a lifestyle guy, but that is me judging from afar which isn’t worth anything, just my opinion. Unfathomable was too strong a word. I just guess that I am surprised, with his success and seeming happiness playing in Boston that he would hold out for more. If it’s an extra year, okay that is significant. If it’s a couple million dollars on a $60 million contract, I find it hard to consider that significant.

Leaving won’t break Damon’s heart, but he did love the pinstripes. And he may have Boras to thank for seemingly really mismanaging his negotiating leverage. If he had any desire to stay in NY (he appeared to love the spotlight and the media and he is never going to get what he got in Boston and NY anywhere else), they butchered it.

by David Todd on Dec 22, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions

Damon's hair style change with NY was an indication how much he values money over lifestyle.

by MarkInDallas on Dec 22, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions

Times change.......

He just made $50 million. Now who knows where he’s going to be playing.

by David Todd on Dec 22, 2009 8:06 PM EST up reply actions

He feels betrayed by the Yankees. They aren't being true to their nature.

Because he went there expecting them to be a fountain of money. Now that they are trying to be fiscally responsible, he feel betrayed that they won’t overpay him anymore.

by MarkInDallas on Dec 22, 2009 10:24 PM EST up reply actions

From Rob Neyer on Monday....

Riffing on something Buster wrote about Johnny Damon, Chad Jennings raises an interesting phenomenon: players who don’t want to take a pay cut to play for their old team, and wind up taking an even bigger pay cut to play somewhere else. Ah, pride … “there is always something lying in wait to take the wind out of it.”

by David Todd on Dec 23, 2009 1:20 PM EST up reply actions

Bay

I don’t blame Bay for wanting to max out this payday, which will be his only shot at a really big one. I’m just not convinced he can do meaningfully better than the BoSox offer, and I think that 4 years at Citi Field will kill his value for his next contract. I mean, if his play translates as badly there as I anticipate (I’m thinking he may never hit 30 HR and will be -20 UZR – at best), he may simply become unemployed when his contract’s over. Whereas, if he stays in Boston, his numbers slowly decline from where they are, and he can shift to DH in the last year or two of the contract, after which his value will be diminished but someone will give him a 2/15 contract or something. After ~3 years in Flushing, I don’t think anyone will want him as a DH, and I don’t think he’ll get a real contract.

If the Boston offer was insulting (2/20 or something), then I’d totally see leaving there, but he’s only getting a bit more (in crazy baseball players terms, of course) in NY while potentially destroying his future earnings.

by JRoth95 on Dec 28, 2009 6:04 PM EST up reply actions

Also worth keeping in mind...

…when you rely on Madden’s baseball analysis: On the second page of the very same piece, he said:

Our choice for runner-up offseason exec of the year (albeit a distant one) is the Chicago White Sox’s Kenny Williams, who upgraded big-time in the leadoff spot last week with his acquisition of left fielder Juan Pierre (in a salary-dump trade on the Dodgers’ part) and, earlier, at third base with his trade for Mark Teahen from the Kansas City Royals. Williams still has work to do with his bullpen, but the White Sox, on paper anyway, have jumped ahead of the Tigers and Twins in the AL Central.

A guy who think Juan Pierre was a great addition is a guy with near-zero credibility on anything baseball-related.

by Vlad on Dec 21, 2009 9:55 AM EST reply actions

Yeah, the White Sox have added 2 players who totaled 2 WAR between them in 2009. It’s hard to understand how that’s going to help them overcome 7 games in the standings.

by MarkInDallas on Dec 21, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions

I seriously thought Teahen was going to get non-tendered this offseason and the White Sox not only traded for him, but gave him a 3 year $14 million deal.

by ElDuce on Dec 21, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions

Well.....

not saying the contracts good, but they just bought out his arbitration years, so if they were going to keep him around it gave them cost certainty. Seems like a wash to me.

by David Todd on Dec 22, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions