Most depressing article I've read in a long time...

by lloyd95 on Dec 21, 2009 8:30 AM EST

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/pirates/s_658484.html

Especially the all decade team... I'm going to spend some time looking at the decade and see if I can find anything better... Not sure I can find it. At the very least, there were some memorable events worth highlighting. Seriously though, if I can't do better than Laroche as the decades best 1B I'm going to need therapy.

At the very least, I hit Bradenton in March 6 times in the decade. And that, is a treat regardless of the Bucs' record. Many fond memories at McKechnie field. And despite the hopeful attitude of spring training in Florida, one of my favorite memories was jawing at Littlefield, "Have a great season Dave and by the way, how's your resume looking these days?".

Cheers (and go bucs!)

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.

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DL didn't need a resume to get his next job.

He just sent a Post-It-Note to the Cubs and reminded them, “Gift trades=scouting job.”

by patthatt on Dec 21, 2009 10:54 AM EST reply actions

LaRoche at 1B:

Pirates fans continue to have absolutely no perspective about Adam. Not only is he the team’s best 1B of the decade, he’s the team’s best 1B since Jason Thompson. He’s a good player who put a lot of runs on the board for us, streaky or not.

Josh Fogg is a pretty terrible pick for best RH starter (Wells, Ritchie, and Benson were all better) as is Williams for best closer (Gonzo, duh).

by Vlad on Dec 21, 2009 11:07 AM EST reply actions 1 recs

I’d choose Craig Wilson over Adam for 1B of the decade. He had slightly fewer innings at 1B and played a few other positions but was at least an average defender at 1B unlike LaRoche, and Wilson had more productive and a larger number of at bats in a Pittsburgh uniform.

by Adam Reynolds on Dec 21, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions

Actually, just based on LaRoche’s time in Pitt he was also an Avg. 1B defender. The high negative ratings are from earlier in his career.

by Adam Reynolds on Dec 21, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions

Best Pirate 1B of the decade...

or the quarter century…isn’t exactly the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval. Not like we’ve had anything remotely resembling an All-Star 1B the last 25 years. In fact…the Pirates have only had 4 All-Star 1B in the last 50 years. Dick Stuart in 1961…Stargell in 1972 and 1978…and Thompson in 1982.

by Thunder on Dec 21, 2009 7:22 PM EST up reply actions

It may not be the most interesting question in the world...

…but it’s the question that the original poster raised, so what the hell, right?

LaRoche was a perfectly decent 1B who could’ve started for any number of teams, and a lot of the fans here treated him like some kind of leper. It shouldn’t bother me, but it does.

by Vlad on Dec 23, 2009 10:00 AM EST up reply actions

Jeebus

I stand second to no man in my liking for Fogg, but … we had no better RHPs that that? I know Snell only had one good year, but really, I’d put him on there ahead of Fogg.

by bucdaddy on Dec 21, 2009 11:51 AM EST reply actions

Forgot about Snell.

But yeah, probably him, too, on peak.

by Vlad on Dec 21, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions

How did they take Bay over Giles as best player? Giles was better in just about every way possible if you look at the numbers.

From 2000 to the time he left the Pirates Giles hit over .300, had an OBP over .425, OPS over 1.000, and homered in over 6% of his ABs.

Bay hit in the .280s, OBP in the .370s, OPS under .900, and homered in over 5% of his ABs.

It’s not like Bay was around that much longer that he should get the edge, it’s about a 500 PA difference between the two.

by ElDuce on Dec 21, 2009 1:11 PM EST reply actions

Giles is also the Pirates all time leader in Slugging and OPS, two of the categories they point out that Bay was top 10 in.

by ElDuce on Dec 21, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions

Well.....

Giles was traded away in 2003. Bay was traded away in 2008. Clearly the memories of Bay are more fresh in our minds than the memories of Giles.

by IAPiratesFan on Dec 21, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions

Was the 2003 rule 5 draft really that bad?

I was only a pup at the time (ok, 13, but how many 13 year olds understand the rule 5 draft?) Someone please tell me it wasnt as ugly as it sounds

The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.

by glass0941 on Dec 22, 2009 2:44 AM EST reply actions

It didn’t turn out to be horrible. Who knows if Chris Shelton would have done anything as a Pirate, and we had to go get Jose Bautista back, but in the end no great talents were lost.

by MarkInDallas on Dec 22, 2009 4:41 AM EST up reply actions

If I’m not mistaken, Chris Shelton went apecrazy for about a month up in Detroit, but hasn’t done much since. In fact, his OPS has been sub .700 the last 2 seasons, including a .593 last season. Yikes…

The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.

by glass0941 on Dec 23, 2009 12:00 AM EST up reply actions

I was there

He hit 2 HRs into my section at a Rangers game that year in 2006. 10 HRs that first month, then as Jesus said…he was like,“It is finished”. And gave up the ghost.

by MarkInDallas on Dec 23, 2009 12:20 AM EST up reply actions

Shelton has actually played very well throughout his career.

He didn’t just get hot for one month in 2006. He’d put up a .870 OPS in 431 PA the year before, and over his career at AAA (in 1770 PA), he’s put up a .882 OPS. And by advanced metrics, he’s also a plus defender at 1B.

He’s probably capable of being a solid starting 1B in the majors right now – the only thing holding him back is the relatively high number of internal alternatives at the position in most organizations.

by Vlad on Dec 23, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions

Well that goes to show you

what you get when you quickly look up OPS for a guy. From looking at it again, it looks like his PAs were about as regular as Veal’s appearances this year. He was an .800 OPS guy in 2006, which is solid

The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.

by glass0941 on Dec 23, 2009 6:14 PM EST up reply actions

He just got a brief callup.

During July, as an injury replacement IIRC.

He and Russ Branyan were fighting for one job during spring training, and then Branyan kind of took that job and ran with it.

by Vlad on Dec 24, 2009 9:22 AM EST up reply actions

It was pretty embarrassing to the franchise.

The actual cost in terms of talent didn’t end up being all that high, although including Bautista in the Benson trade meant that we didn’t get a different B-level prospect instead, at a time when we could’ve used all the B-level prospects we could get. But the damage to the front office’s reputation was huge – other teams were actually openly laughing at us during the Rule 5 as we lost pick after pick. We were apparently shocked that any of the guys we lost got picked, much less all of them, which demonstrates a huge disconnect between our scouts at the time and the general scouting consensus within baseball. And several of the players we bumped off the roster in the immediate pre-draft period (in order to create roster spots that were left open during the draft) were claimed on waivers and subsequently developed into significant contributors (i.e. Matt Guerrier and Duaner Sanchez).

by Vlad on Dec 23, 2009 10:06 AM EST up reply actions

If that, the 2007 draft and the Morris trade were the triumvirate of moves that doomed Littlefield’s tenure, I hold that up with those other 2 as the most significantly positive moments of the last 17 years.

by MarkInDallas on Dec 23, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions