Pirates Close to Signing Bobby Crosby
by Charlie Wilmoth on Dec 8, 2009 4:06 PM EST
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PrintI'm not impressed, and I hope the deal is just a minor league contract. Crosby can't hit for average and gets hurt constantly. He does have a bit of power, and I suppose I'm glad the Pirates are at least a little bit concerned about having Ronny Cedeno as their only shortstop, but Crosby hasn't put up an OBP above .300 since 2005, when he was only a second-year player in the first place. Anything can happen, but as of now he looks more like a AAA player than a major leaguer.
UPDATE: ...I do get it, though. The market for shortstops wasn't great, and the Bucs had a dubious starting shortstop and no real backup plan. And, although Crosby makes Khalil Greene look like Honus Wagner, I suppose it's theoretically possible to see some upside in there. I'm just not going to get excited about it.
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Color me not excited.
He’s played in less than 100 games in 4 of 6 seasons. Sure, he hit 22 HRs his rookie year. He also hit .239 with 141 Ks that year. In the 5 seasons since, he has hit a combined 39 HRs.
Look at his lines the last four seasons.
2006 – 96 games: .229/.298/.338
2007 – 93 games: .226/.278/.341
2008 – 145 games: .237/.296/.349
2009 – 97 games: .223/.295/.357 and a career low 238 ABs.
Sorry, good glove or not, I’m just not excited about this at all.
Oakland plays in a pitchers' park...
I wonder if that and a move to the NL will help him out a little.
Crosby?
We already have Vazquez, fer cryin’ out loud.
Don’t we suck enough?
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
That's a good question
The two look pretty similar, although Crosby has more power. The real point is that there’s not some great SS out there to be claimed.
Viva Clemente!
Less sarcastically
If this is a minor league deal – or one of those spring training deals where we can release him at the end of March with a minimal buyout – then it’s fine. I’m not sure whether a resurgent Crosby is actually better than a mid-range Cedeno, but it’s a fine application of pressure, as long as we’re not on the hook for too much.
I’m glad we got Iwamura so that we’re not faced with similar dreck at 2B.
That's OK.
It’s UT IF money, so we’re protected if he can’t beat out Ronny.
I wonder whether this move pushes Vazquez off the roster in spring training?
Crosby can play 1B
That’s not funny. Don’t say that ever again. Ever.
by WTM on Dec 8, 2009 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
I like this move and every one should too
Crosby at one point in his career was the AL ROY and we are getting for IF Util money….how can this not be a good deal for the Bucs? Luis Cruz and Brian Bixler were god awful last year and will never be proven major league hitters….whereas Crosby at one point in his career had the stick to be an everyday major league player. IF he says healthy I like him at SS instead of Cedeno. And to all you Cruz lovers, what is the deal Cruz was terrible and I’m so happy he is gone.
apparently
some people who had to watch crosby play felt the same way…
I don’t know what an AL ROY is worth when it was 5 years back!
“Cruz lovers?”
Good luck finding one here.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 8, 2009 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
Now, THERE'S a position for Cruz...
as long as you mean her.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 9, 2009 3:28 AM EST up reply actions
Oh boy...
now you guys get to watch Crosby strike out time and time again on sliders low and outside.
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
Over at Athletics Nation
The sentiment is mixed. His promise and his large salary have made him a target—Booby Crosby. Some, though, think this might be what it takes for him to right himself. At worst it’s a low stakes gamble. Apparently he has a weakness for sliders low and away. I can’t think of any other infielders of recent memory with this problem . . .
Viva Clemente!
Off-topic but...had anyone heard of this guy?
Noel Arguelles, a Cuban defector the Royals snapped up over the weekend. There’s some information on him at Keith Law’s insider blog, but I was just throwing out to the folks here…was he on the Bucs radar?
I didn't hear about them...
…having any real interest, though that doesn’t mean that they didn’t, of course.
i understand pessimism
but come on hes better than vaquez. And he is CERTAINLY better than cruz
lovers salavate. broken hearts tesselate tonight.
i havent seen much of crosby in the field
he is likely a better hitter than Cruz. I don’t know if he’s better than Vazquez in terms of hitting only, but we are probably comparing at a level that I dont care about
i like it
Low risk, high reward. He’s Rick Ankiel except that no one’s hyping him up and we actually needed a SS.
+1
Particularly Bambi Bixler, who seems destined to be an AAAA player. The one thing that may make Crosby more (slightly more) valuable than Cruz is that Crosby can back-up 3B and 2B as well. I don’t recall Luis playing either of those positions.
Hmmm
Since it’s unclear whether you have ridiculously high standards for use of the phrase “high reward” or just think very little of Crosby’s upside, I’ll say that I think if he can stay on the field for 120 games or so he can be a 2 win player. Offensively’s he’s probably -20/150, but he makes a lot of it back by being a good defensive shortstop. Throw in the switch from AL to NL and getting out of the Coliseum and he’s about league average, maybe. Of course, he could continue to be awful, but there are some encouraging signs. He played 145 games in ‘08 and only had one DL trip last year (though he battled nagging injuries and didn’t play much since Oakland demoted him to a utility role), and his walk rate and ISO both rebounded a little bit. No Rich Harden, sure, but still good reward potential for 1.5m.
When I see "high-reward"...
…it makes me think of a guy who has the potential to be an above-average regular. Right now, I don’t see that kind of potential for Crosby.
Wait... TWO Crosby's in Pittsburgh ?
"Baseball is better than football. Think about it, eighty degrees, a cold beer and a short-sleeve shirt is better than 30 degrees, a hip flask and six layers of clothes under a lap blanket. Take your pick: suntan or frostbite. " - Thomas Boswell
Juiced?
I’m not sure I would put much stock into Crosby’s ROY award and the decent season and a half he had to start his career. I’ve never seen his name in any of the reports, but playing in Oakland (ala Canseco, Giambi, McGwire) makes me wonder if his ’04 and ’05 seasons might have been “enhanced.”
For the record, I’m not a Luis Cruz lover, but if given the option Cruz for 1/3 of the cost of Crosby….give me Cruz.
As for Crosby better than Ankiel? Not in my book. And in case you missed it, we do need a power hitter in the middle of our lineup. Especially if we deal Doumit away.
Good glove, not hit infielders are a dime a dozen.
I’m not buying steroid accusations without evidence. $1 million difference for one player is a drop in the bucket for even the Pirates, and Crosby’s .650 OPS looks like Pujols compared to Luis Cruz’s .550-.600. Ankiel is a worse fit for the Bucs because Clement is projected to have more power and wouldn’t be an MLB starter if Ankiel is starting.
Good glove infielders are not a dime a dozen in this market, though on the other hand no glove corner players are plentiful.
by Adam Reynolds on Dec 8, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
Clement
He is hardly a sure thing.
Word was he was not even an average 1B at Indy last year after coming over in the trade and his .224 average is a bit of a concern. Especially after following a .227/.295/.360 200 AB try out in Seattle in 2008.
Greanted, I’m hoping this guy is the real deal, but just assuming he’s going to be the best Pirate 1B since Stargell is really putting the cart ahead of the horse.
Also, let’s not forget, just moving him out from behind home plate does not mean his kneww are magically healed. He’s still likley to have injury issues.
I think it's more likely...
…that a series of injuries have gradually and significantly degraded Crosby’s ability. Like Pete Reiser, if any of you remember him.
Dejan says...
Hearing one year at roughly $1.5 million. Not confirmed. Still no agreement in place, and now no one on either side is available.
Meh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
Imagine this opens up a corner outfield spot for Mclouth too....
I kinda prefer the Pirates not sign any OF/1B and just go with Jones/Clement. Tabata should be up this year, if not next and Clement deserves a fair shot at 1B, imo.
Me too
Although I think Church would be a very good short term value signing for some team in need of a 1B/OF combo player, I don’t think the Bucs have the itch that Church can scratch. Let’s find out now about Jones & Clement as it is likely our last chance to do so before Tabata arrives.
It is a shame that we can’t find a Ryan Church equivalent at SS.
Good day.
Argenis Diaz
if what we need is a utility guy why not just moving argenis diaz up? i heard he was a decent defensive shortstop in redsox farm system. from BP, he is both the best defensive infielder and has the best arm in our system.
He’s got to learn to hit better first.
I made most of my life decisions at a Foghat concert... I stand by them.
by Chester J Lampwick on Dec 9, 2009 1:32 AM EST up reply actions
Diaz is totally helpless with the bat.
A .619 OPS at AA and a .513 OPS at AAA translate into the kind of MLB line you’d get from a pitcher hitting. On offense, he’s easily double-digit runs worse than a guy like Bixler/Cruz.
Vlad:
Is it possible for a player to be “double-digit runs” worse than either Bixler or Cruz?
If Argenis Diaz is so pathetic with the bat, I don’t see how we could ever seriously consider him for a UT IF role, especially with constraints of current roster numbers.
Right now...
Diaz is double-digit runs worse than just about everyone. I think the Bucs are hoping his stick will develop with more time in AAA.
The MLE on his 2009 season...
…is an OPS around .480. Which is pretty awful. A .200-ish BA with no walks or power. By way of comparison, NL pitchers as a whole put up a .355 OPS in 2009.
His 2010 CHONE projection is .234/.279/.302, which makes him the eighth-best offensive SS in the sytem last year out of the eight shortstops for which they bothered to run projections, thirteen runs worse than the penultimate guy (Chris Barnwell). He is, however, only the fourth-worst hitter relative to position among all 47 of the Pirate hitters CHONE projected, edging out James Boone, Milver Reyes, and Angel R. Gonzalez. So at least there’s that.
Meh
When I read things like the Pirates have money to make a spalsh in FA then they do this its hard to take them serious.
Have you seen who the Mets have signed this offseason?
I think it would be valid this year.
Crosby
I agree with the reservations. But he probably was the best option. There is upside if healthy.
And RV cannot play shortstop. At least if Cedeno crashes, you have someone capable of playing an average MLB shortstop.
So far, this offseason...
…the Mets have signed Chris Coste, Henry Blanco, and Alex Cora to major-league deals, and Hessman to a minor-league contract. Which of those signings shows that they’re more “serious” than us?
Good teams need bench players and minor league depth, too.
In Addition
Omar the Great gave Billy Wagner to the Red Sox for 2 “C” level prospects, only to have the Red Sox turn it into a first round pick plus a first/second round sandwich pick three months later.
Talk about an idiot!!
If the Pirates had done something like that it would have made national news…
btw
since the crosby signing isn’t done yet, or at least announced yet, assuming we were still in the preliminary stages, does anyone think there would be value in trading for Maicer Izturis, who I believe the Angels are dangling? Also, what would the asking price on that one be?
Bobby Crosby, talk about a guy with a low floor and a high cieling.
Any word on what if any pitchers the Pirates are looking at?
how is this even a remotely bad signing?
who is he blocking? whats the worst that can possibly happen?
i hate how everyones talking like this is our entire offseason. this is a very minor move. they arent signing him and saying he is going to save the team. they are saying he will fight for a starting spot, but dont forget YOU HAVE TO FILL OUT A BENCH AS WELL. he is not a bad bat off the pine.
lovers salavate. broken hearts tesselate tonight.
I admittedly haven't really thought through the
implications, but it seems to foreclose a Pearce/Clement platoon at first, and pretty much guarantees a bench with two light-hitting middle infielders and a backup catcher. If Doumit were to go down, that bench could rival Mike Benjamin/Abe Nunez/Keith Osik for late inning groan factor. I would prefer to only have one middle-infielder on the bench, although that is a risky proposition when you have a good starting shortstop. Which we dont.
Don't get me wrong I like the signing.
All i’m saying is that Crosby’s either gonna be very good or very bad. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of middle ground with him performance wise,at least offensively.
Dejan reporting...
$1M guaranteed, 500K in possible bonuses based on plate appearances.
Pretty damned reasonable price…a lot cheaper than the RV we rarely use as a spare infielder…and probably more useful…if healthy. We’re spending a whole 600K more than we would with Cruz or Bixler. If that breaks the bank…we need to find a new team to support.
It's Not Like We're Signing Crosby to ....
block anyone, a la Joe Randa and Sean Casey a few years back. To me, this looks like a very professional, utilitarian decision. We get a competent, experienced back-up at 3rd, SS, 2B, or even 1B in a pinch. We get it at a reasonable price. Unless we trade Andy, Cedeno, or Iwamora and name Bing here the starting player, this just seems like a common-sense, solid if unspectacular business signing. Like the Steelers signing an unheralded, but competent, safety for special teams and back-up.
I don’t think this signing is the “splash” that was identified as being a possibility. And frankly, if the Bucs make more competent signings (or trades) I’d be happier than if they trotted out Joe “I’m Always Good for 2 or 3 games w/out an Injury” Crede for, say, $5 million/year just to be making a “splash.”
It's not like we have a REAL team anyway
These cheap ba$tard owners will never spend any money to get a winning team here.
It’s all bull$hit.
Why haven’t we heard anything about Khalil Greene? He’s from Butler, PA which is close to Pittsburgh so he likely would have come here (or maybe even Indy with a clear shot to the Bigs if he did well). Is he done with the MLB?
That’s what I’m wondering. Why isn’t Greene in the discussion right now?
by MarkInDallas on Dec 10, 2009 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
Nothing on MLB Trade Rumors since August, so who knows? Even with Cedeno/Crosby, I wouldn’t mind giving a minor league deal if no one else is biting.
by Adam Reynolds on Dec 10, 2009 1:02 AM EST up reply actions
Then we can test the theory that 3 wrongs might make a right. :-) Seriously, though, he’s got more upside than either of the others.
by MarkInDallas on Dec 10, 2009 3:44 AM EST up reply actions
I suspect that Green may take a hiatus from baseball.
Just from his tenure with the cards you can tell the mans got some issues he needs to work out off the field.
Or am I the only one who remembers the whole Societal Anxiety thin he had going on?
I think a 1 year break would be good for Khalil mental health is more important than baseball.
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