Bucs Dugout: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
New Blog: Once A Metro covering Red Bull New York!

Pirates Close to Signing Bobby Crosby

I'm not impressed, and I hope the deal is just a minor league contract. Crosby can't hit for average and gets hurt constantly. He does have a bit of power, and I suppose I'm glad the Pirates are at least a little bit concerned about having Ronny Cedeno as their only shortstop, but Crosby hasn't put up an OBP above .300 since 2005, when he was only a second-year player in the first place. Anything can happen, but as of now he looks more like a AAA player than a major leaguer.

UPDATE: ...I do get it, though. The market for shortstops wasn't great, and the Bucs had a dubious starting shortstop and no real backup plan. And, although Crosby makes Khalil Greene look like Honus Wagner, I suppose it's theoretically possible to see some upside in there. I'm just not going to get excited about it.

0 recs  |  Comment 86 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

More from Bucs Dugout

D-Backs Sign Justin Upton

Mar 2010 by Charlie - 41 comments

Comments

Display:

done deal pending physical

according to Rob Biertempfel…

nothing particularly exciting, as you say

by BurgherKing on Dec 8, 2009 4:14 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Color me not excited.

He’s played in less than 100 games in 4 of 6 seasons. Sure, he hit 22 HRs his rookie year. He also hit .239 with 141 Ks that year. In the 5 seasons since, he has hit a combined 39 HRs.

Look at his lines the last four seasons.

2006 – 96 games: .229/.298/.338

2007 – 93 games: .226/.278/.341

2008 – 145 games: .237/.296/.349

2009 – 97 games: .223/.295/.357 and a career low 238 ABs.

Sorry, good glove or not, I’m just not excited about this at all.

by Brakeman8 on Dec 8, 2009 4:28 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Oakland plays in a pitchers' park...

I wonder if that and a move to the NL will help him out a little.

by scully0505 on Dec 8, 2009 4:38 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Oakland is a pitcher’s park, but he’s actually hit better at home during his career. Not sure how to explain that one. Moving to the NL is always a plus. Still don’t expect much, though.

by ElDuce on Dec 8, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Crosby?

We already have Vazquez, fer cryin’ out loud.

Don’t we suck enough?

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 8, 2009 4:42 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Not yet.

But the hot stove season has just begun….

by JRoth95 on Dec 8, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Signing Crosby is a waste of money and other guys’ playing time.

by NY Jim on Dec 9, 2009 4:17 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously?

Would Luis Cruz been any worse? He would likely have at least been cheaper….

by Brakeman8 on Dec 8, 2009 4:44 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

That's a good question

The two look pretty similar, although Crosby has more power. The real point is that there’s not some great SS out there to be claimed.

Viva Clemente!

by Roberto on Dec 8, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Less sarcastically

If this is a minor league deal – or one of those spring training deals where we can release him at the end of March with a minimal buyout – then it’s fine. I’m not sure whether a resurgent Crosby is actually better than a mid-range Cedeno, but it’s a fine application of pressure, as long as we’re not on the hook for too much.

I’m glad we got Iwamura so that we’re not faced with similar dreck at 2B.

by JRoth95 on Dec 8, 2009 4:55 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

DK says he heard 1 yr/1.5 mill. Not confirmed though

by scully0505 on Dec 8, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's OK.

It’s UT IF money, so we’re protected if he can’t beat out Ronny.

I wonder whether this move pushes Vazquez off the roster in spring training?

by Vlad on Dec 8, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, Crosby can play 1B, so we’re covered there.

More seriously, can he play 3B and/or 2B?

by JRoth95 on Dec 8, 2009 5:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure.

He’s played some 3B (42 ML games), and anybody capable of being a decent SS has all the attributes to play 2B as well.

by Vlad on Dec 8, 2009 5:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Crosby can play 1B

That’s not funny. Don’t say that ever again. Ever.

by WTM on Dec 8, 2009 6:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m more positive on this than everyone here. We picked up a solid defensive shortstop at a minor cost in a bad market for the position. If Cedeno flops again in the first couple months then we are covered now.

by Adam Reynolds on Dec 8, 2009 5:22 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I like this move and every one should too

Crosby at one point in his career was the AL ROY and we are getting for IF Util money….how can this not be a good deal for the Bucs? Luis Cruz and Brian Bixler were god awful last year and will never be proven major league hitters….whereas Crosby at one point in his career had the stick to be an everyday major league player. IF he says healthy I like him at SS instead of Cedeno. And to all you Cruz lovers, what is the deal Cruz was terrible and I’m so happy he is gone.

by chrisiu10 on Dec 8, 2009 5:25 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

apparently

some people who had to watch crosby play felt the same way…

I don’t know what an AL ROY is worth when it was 5 years back!

by BurgherKing on Dec 8, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

“Cruz lovers?”

Good luck finding one here.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 8, 2009 5:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

But she can hit.

Viva Clemente!

by Roberto on Dec 8, 2009 7:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Fun little Cruz movie – Woman on Top

by ol Pete on Dec 9, 2009 12:05 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Now, THERE'S a position for Cruz...

as long as you mean her.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 9, 2009 3:28 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

affirmative

by ol Pete on Dec 9, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh boy...

now you guys get to watch Crosby strike out time and time again on sliders low and outside.

"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 8, 2009 5:26 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps NH just has a thing for flameout AL rookie of the year winners. Angel Berroa, here we come!

by Mr. E on Dec 8, 2009 5:41 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Now this isn’t expected to go through any time soon per the PG?!

by Adam Reynolds on Dec 8, 2009 5:42 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Over at Athletics Nation

The sentiment is mixed. His promise and his large salary have made him a target—Booby Crosby. Some, though, think this might be what it takes for him to right himself. At worst it’s a low stakes gamble. Apparently he has a weakness for sliders low and away. I can’t think of any other infielders of recent memory with this problem . . .

Viva Clemente!

by Roberto on Dec 8, 2009 5:48 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Off-topic but...had anyone heard of this guy?

Noel Arguelles, a Cuban defector the Royals snapped up over the weekend. There’s some information on him at Keith Law’s insider blog, but I was just throwing out to the folks here…was he on the Bucs radar?

by NastyNate82 on Dec 8, 2009 6:36 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I didn't hear about them...

…having any real interest, though that doesn’t mean that they didn’t, of course.

by Vlad on Dec 9, 2009 9:09 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i understand pessimism

but come on hes better than vaquez. And he is CERTAINLY better than cruz

lovers salavate. broken hearts tesselate tonight.

by omar moreno on Dec 8, 2009 7:02 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

i havent seen much of crosby in the field

he is likely a better hitter than Cruz. I don’t know if he’s better than Vazquez in terms of hitting only, but we are probably comparing at a level that I dont care about

by BurgherKing on Dec 8, 2009 7:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i like it

Low risk, high reward. He’s Rick Ankiel except that no one’s hyping him up and we actually needed a SS.

by epoc on Dec 8, 2009 7:17 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

+1

Particularly Bambi Bixler, who seems destined to be an AAAA player. The one thing that may make Crosby more (slightly more) valuable than Cruz is that Crosby can back-up 3B and 2B as well. I don’t recall Luis playing either of those positions.

by Trogluddite on Dec 8, 2009 9:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think "high reward"...

…is pushing it a bit. We aren’t exactly talking about Rich Harden, here.

by Vlad on Dec 9, 2009 9:10 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm

Since it’s unclear whether you have ridiculously high standards for use of the phrase “high reward” or just think very little of Crosby’s upside, I’ll say that I think if he can stay on the field for 120 games or so he can be a 2 win player. Offensively’s he’s probably -20/150, but he makes a lot of it back by being a good defensive shortstop. Throw in the switch from AL to NL and getting out of the Coliseum and he’s about league average, maybe. Of course, he could continue to be awful, but there are some encouraging signs. He played 145 games in ‘08 and only had one DL trip last year (though he battled nagging injuries and didn’t play much since Oakland demoted him to a utility role), and his walk rate and ISO both rebounded a little bit. No Rich Harden, sure, but still good reward potential for 1.5m.

by epoc on Dec 9, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

When I see "high-reward"...

…it makes me think of a guy who has the potential to be an above-average regular. Right now, I don’t see that kind of potential for Crosby.

by Vlad on Dec 9, 2009 3:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wait... TWO Crosby's in Pittsburgh ?

"Baseball is better than football. Think about it, eighty degrees, a cold beer and a short-sleeve shirt is better than 30 degrees, a hip flask and six layers of clothes under a lap blanket. Take your pick: suntan or frostbite. " - Thomas Boswell

by Ketcham Bruce on Dec 8, 2009 8:51 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Juiced?

I’m not sure I would put much stock into Crosby’s ROY award and the decent season and a half he had to start his career. I’ve never seen his name in any of the reports, but playing in Oakland (ala Canseco, Giambi, McGwire) makes me wonder if his ’04 and ’05 seasons might have been “enhanced.”

For the record, I’m not a Luis Cruz lover, but if given the option Cruz for 1/3 of the cost of Crosby….give me Cruz.

As for Crosby better than Ankiel? Not in my book. And in case you missed it, we do need a power hitter in the middle of our lineup. Especially if we deal Doumit away.

Good glove, not hit infielders are a dime a dozen.

by Brakeman8 on Dec 8, 2009 8:52 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I’m not buying steroid accusations without evidence. $1 million difference for one player is a drop in the bucket for even the Pirates, and Crosby’s .650 OPS looks like Pujols compared to Luis Cruz’s .550-.600. Ankiel is a worse fit for the Bucs because Clement is projected to have more power and wouldn’t be an MLB starter if Ankiel is starting.

Good glove infielders are not a dime a dozen in this market, though on the other hand no glove corner players are plentiful.

by Adam Reynolds on Dec 8, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Clement

He is hardly a sure thing.

Word was he was not even an average 1B at Indy last year after coming over in the trade and his .224 average is a bit of a concern. Especially after following a .227/.295/.360 200 AB try out in Seattle in 2008.

Greanted, I’m hoping this guy is the real deal, but just assuming he’s going to be the best Pirate 1B since Stargell is really putting the cart ahead of the horse.

Also, let’s not forget, just moving him out from behind home plate does not mean his kneww are magically healed. He’s still likley to have injury issues.

by Brakeman8 on Dec 8, 2009 10:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think it's more likely...

…that a series of injuries have gradually and significantly degraded Crosby’s ability. Like Pete Reiser, if any of you remember him.

by Vlad on Dec 9, 2009 9:12 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dejan says...
Hearing one year at roughly $1.5 million. Not confirmed. Still no agreement in place, and now no one on either side is available.

Meh

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by fugimaster24 on Dec 8, 2009 9:59 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Imagine this opens up a corner outfield spot for Mclouth too....

I kinda prefer the Pirates not sign any OF/1B and just go with Jones/Clement. Tabata should be up this year, if not next and Clement deserves a fair shot at 1B, imo.

by phil79 on Dec 8, 2009 10:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Me too

Although I think Church would be a very good short term value signing for some team in need of a 1B/OF combo player, I don’t think the Bucs have the itch that Church can scratch. Let’s find out now about Jones & Clement as it is likely our last chance to do so before Tabata arrives.

It is a shame that we can’t find a Ryan Church equivalent at SS.

Good day.

by Uncle Nate on Dec 9, 2009 7:51 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I just hope he shaves that soul patch

by poobah on Dec 9, 2009 1:06 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Argenis Diaz

if what we need is a utility guy why not just moving argenis diaz up? i heard he was a decent defensive shortstop in redsox farm system. from BP, he is both the best defensive infielder and has the best arm in our system.

by taiwania on Dec 9, 2009 1:14 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

He’s got to learn to hit better first.

I made most of my life decisions at a Foghat concert... I stand by them.

by Chester J Lampwick on Dec 9, 2009 1:32 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Diaz is totally helpless with the bat.

A .619 OPS at AA and a .513 OPS at AAA translate into the kind of MLB line you’d get from a pitcher hitting. On offense, he’s easily double-digit runs worse than a guy like Bixler/Cruz.

by Vlad on Dec 9, 2009 9:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Vlad:

Is it possible for a player to be “double-digit runs” worse than either Bixler or Cruz?

If Argenis Diaz is so pathetic with the bat, I don’t see how we could ever seriously consider him for a UT IF role, especially with constraints of current roster numbers.

by patthatt on Dec 9, 2009 6:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Right now...

Diaz is double-digit runs worse than just about everyone. I think the Bucs are hoping his stick will develop with more time in AAA.

by Slick1 on Dec 9, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The MLE on his 2009 season...

…is an OPS around .480. Which is pretty awful. A .200-ish BA with no walks or power. By way of comparison, NL pitchers as a whole put up a .355 OPS in 2009.

His 2010 CHONE projection is .234/.279/.302, which makes him the eighth-best offensive SS in the sytem last year out of the eight shortstops for which they bothered to run projections, thirteen runs worse than the penultimate guy (Chris Barnwell). He is, however, only the fourth-worst hitter relative to position among all 47 of the Pirate hitters CHONE projected, edging out James Boone, Milver Reyes, and Angel R. Gonzalez. So at least there’s that.

by Vlad on Dec 10, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Meh

When I read things like the Pirates have money to make a spalsh in FA then they do this its hard to take them serious.

by psunate77 on Dec 9, 2009 9:28 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

But again...

Who wants to come play here??

by psunate77 on Dec 9, 2009 9:28 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

$'s

Rule the day. Regardless of what we hear, 90% of the free agents go where the cash is the greatest.

by God Loves on Dec 9, 2009 9:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah..

and the other 10% avoids the worst franchise in pro sports…

by psunate77 on Dec 9, 2009 9:43 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Mets just signed Mike Hessmann.

Does that make them a joke, too?

by Vlad on Dec 9, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You really going to compare the Mets FA Signings to the Pirates?

by psunate77 on Dec 9, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Crosby

I agree with the reservations. But he probably was the best option. There is upside if healthy.

And RV cannot play shortstop. At least if Cedeno crashes, you have someone capable of playing an average MLB shortstop.

by Bernie6 on Dec 9, 2009 11:27 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

So far, this offseason...

…the Mets have signed Chris Coste, Henry Blanco, and Alex Cora to major-league deals, and Hessman to a minor-league contract. Which of those signings shows that they’re more “serious” than us?

Good teams need bench players and minor league depth, too.

by Vlad on Dec 9, 2009 12:51 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

And so do the Mets.

by biggyv on Dec 9, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

In Addition

Omar the Great gave Billy Wagner to the Red Sox for 2 “C” level prospects, only to have the Red Sox turn it into a first round pick plus a first/second round sandwich pick three months later.

Talk about an idiot!!

If the Pirates had done something like that it would have made national news…

by God Loves on Dec 9, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

btw

since the crosby signing isn’t done yet, or at least announced yet, assuming we were still in the preliminary stages, does anyone think there would be value in trading for Maicer Izturis, who I believe the Angels are dangling? Also, what would the asking price on that one be?

by BurgherKing on Dec 9, 2009 1:11 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Bobby Crosby, talk about a guy with a low floor and a high cieling.

Any word on what if any pitchers the Pirates are looking at?

by mob16151 on Dec 9, 2009 1:20 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

how is this even a remotely bad signing?

who is he blocking? whats the worst that can possibly happen?

i hate how everyones talking like this is our entire offseason. this is a very minor move. they arent signing him and saying he is going to save the team. they are saying he will fight for a starting spot, but dont forget YOU HAVE TO FILL OUT A BENCH AS WELL. he is not a bad bat off the pine.

lovers salavate. broken hearts tesselate tonight.

by omar moreno on Dec 9, 2009 2:07 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I admittedly haven't really thought through the

implications, but it seems to foreclose a Pearce/Clement platoon at first, and pretty much guarantees a bench with two light-hitting middle infielders and a backup catcher. If Doumit were to go down, that bench could rival Mike Benjamin/Abe Nunez/Keith Osik for late inning groan factor. I would prefer to only have one middle-infielder on the bench, although that is a risky proposition when you have a good starting shortstop. Which we dont.

by Bwillits on Dec 9, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't get me wrong I like the signing.

All i’m saying is that Crosby’s either gonna be very good or very bad. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of middle ground with him performance wise,at least offensively.

by mob16151 on Dec 9, 2009 5:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dejan reporting...

$1M guaranteed, 500K in possible bonuses based on plate appearances.

http://community.post-gazette.com/blogs/pbc/archive/2009/12/09/crosby-terms-1-million-plus-500k-bonus.aspx

Pretty damned reasonable price…a lot cheaper than the RV we rarely use as a spare infielder…and probably more useful…if healthy. We’re spending a whole 600K more than we would with Cruz or Bixler. If that breaks the bank…we need to find a new team to support.

by Thunder on Dec 9, 2009 6:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

It's Not Like We're Signing Crosby to ....

block anyone, a la Joe Randa and Sean Casey a few years back. To me, this looks like a very professional, utilitarian decision. We get a competent, experienced back-up at 3rd, SS, 2B, or even 1B in a pinch. We get it at a reasonable price. Unless we trade Andy, Cedeno, or Iwamora and name Bing here the starting player, this just seems like a common-sense, solid if unspectacular business signing. Like the Steelers signing an unheralded, but competent, safety for special teams and back-up.

I don’t think this signing is the “splash” that was identified as being a possibility. And frankly, if the Bucs make more competent signings (or trades) I’d be happier than if they trotted out Joe “I’m Always Good for 2 or 3 games w/out an Injury” Crede for, say, $5 million/year just to be making a “splash.”

by Trogluddite on Dec 9, 2009 8:35 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

It's not like we have a REAL team anyway

These cheap ba$tard owners will never spend any money to get a winning team here.
It’s all bull$hit.

by PawPawG on Dec 9, 2009 8:43 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Why haven’t we heard anything about Khalil Greene? He’s from Butler, PA which is close to Pittsburgh so he likely would have come here (or maybe even Indy with a clear shot to the Bigs if he did well). Is he done with the MLB?

by Adam Reynolds on Dec 9, 2009 9:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

That’s what I’m wondering. Why isn’t Greene in the discussion right now?

by MarkInDallas on Dec 10, 2009 12:29 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Nothing on MLB Trade Rumors since August, so who knows? Even with Cedeno/Crosby, I wouldn’t mind giving a minor league deal if no one else is biting.

by Adam Reynolds on Dec 10, 2009 1:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Then we can test the theory that 3 wrongs might make a right. :-) Seriously, though, he’s got more upside than either of the others.

by MarkInDallas on Dec 10, 2009 3:44 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I suspect that Green may take a hiatus from baseball.

Just from his tenure with the cards you can tell the mans got some issues he needs to work out off the field.

by mob16151 on Dec 10, 2009 1:41 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Or am I the only one who remembers the whole Societal Anxiety thin he had going on?

I think a 1 year break would be good for Khalil mental health is more important than baseball.

by mob16151 on Dec 10, 2009 4:28 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Pittsburgh Pirates.
Start posting about the Pirates »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

Cbs_fantasy_baseball_promo

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
Cut Brandon Moss already!
Small
Pirates at Orioles
Small
SB Nation Survey + Chance to donate $500 to a charity of this community's choice
Small
Pearce, Moss, or Raynor?
Small
How Much Rope for Kevin Hart?
Small
Red Sox at Pirates
Burger_small
Pirates against Twins
Small
Tigers at Pirates
Ys4f7h3oqh97hh6x7i9h_small
Elijah Dukes?
Small
Pie Traynor: A Baseball Biography

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recent FanShots

Revisiting the Jason Bay Trade
Vazquez scratched from lineup today
Jenrry Mejia
Pirates Rebuilding Plan....reviewed by si.com
D.J. Carrasco: Neal Huntington Owes Me a Quarter
Scott Eyre considering a comeback
Hate Hate Them by FOX Japan
non-traditional prospects
Fangraphs Top 100 Prospects
MLB Channel 30 clubs in 30 days

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

SPONSORS

SBNation.com Recent Stories

Chicago Cubs pitcher Angel Guzman, center, rubs the head of teammate Carlos Marmol, left, while chatting with Marmol and manager Lou Piniella, right, on the first day of baseball spring training Thursday, Feb. 18, 2010, in Mesa, Ariz. (AP Photo/Paul Connors)

SB Nation's 2010 MLB Previews: Chicago Cubs, Seeking Redemption

New York Mets starting pitchers Mike Pelfrey, left, Johan Santana, center, and Oliver Perez watch as teammates take part in drills during spring training baseball Saturday, Feb. 27, 2010, in Port St. Lucie, Fla. (AP Photo/Jeff Roberson)

SB Nation's 2010 MLB Previews: New York Mets, The High Cost Of Low Expectations

Washington Nationals pitcher Stephen Strasburg throws during the second inning of  a spring training baseball game against the Detroit Tigers Tuesday, March 9, 2010 in Viera, Fla. (AP Photo/Charlie Riedel)

Nationals Send Stephen Strasburg To Double-A Despite Impressive Spring

More from SBNation.com >


Managers

Charlie_small Charlie