LA Times: Pirates "Expressed Interest" in Bobby Abreu
Well, this is interesting.
The Dodgers, Atlanta Braves, Pittsburgh Pirates, Cincinnati Reds, New York Mets and Chicago White Sox reportedly expressed interest in Abreu, whom Greenberg believes is athletic enough to move over to left field, if needed.
This is almost surely moot now, since the Pirates signed Eric Hinske, and Abreu appears likely to go to the Angels. Abreu, a lefty and still a very good hitter, would be a great fit for the Pirates' outfield. Also, the Yankees didn't offer him arbitration, so he wouldn't cost the Pirates draft picks.
As a sidenote, I thought this was strange. From the LA Times article:
According to ESPN.com, Abreu, who has spent his entire big league career with the Houston Astros, Philadelphia Phillies and Yankees, joined Barry Bonds and Rickey Henderson last season as the only players to amass 200 homers and 300 stolen bases while maintaining a .400 on-base percentage.
Abreu is also one of five players with 100 RBIs and 100 runs scored in each of the last two seasons. The others are Alex Rodriguez, Chase Utley, David Wright and Adrian Gonzalez.
From Jerry Crasnick's article at ESPN.com:
This year Abreu joined Barry Bonds and Rickey Henderson as the only players to amass 200 homers and 300 stolen bases while maintaining a .400 on-base percentage.Abreu is also one of five players with 100 RBIs and 100 runs scored in each of the past two seasons. The others: Chase Utley, Adrian Gonzalez, David Wright and Alex Rodriguez.
There's an "according to ESPN.com" in the LA Times article, but no quotation marks, and a couple of those sentences are virtually identical. The "joined Barry Bonds... a .400 on-base percentage" part could have been copy-pasted. That's 24 words. This isn't something that sportswriters at the LA Times usually do, is it? I've never edited a big paper and I don't have a journalism degree, so I'm not totally familiar with standard practice here, but I'm shocked to see that the LA Times has pretty much just copied Crasnick.
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Abreu....
Well this would be a nice option and I heard Coonely say yesterday that the Pirates were not done yet for the free agency market so maybe this is what he had in mind. But being a realist I dont see this happening Im sorry, sure it would help the team hes a power hitting left bat with our short porch in left field would be great, I think theres a better shot at him going to the Angels or ChiSox.
I was a journalist before law school, but I forget or never knew the standard quotation policy. In law, there needs to be quotes, even if the source is cited, if 5 or more words are verbatim. The LA Times would be kicked out of law school for Plageurism.
I don't know that it'd be actionable...
…but I’d never do that on anything I wrote, and I’d be pissed if someone else did it with something I’d written.
I’d be pissed if someone else did it with something I’d written, but I’d never do that on anything I wrote.
Ha-ha. I’m outside the USA …sue me!
Why sign Abreu at this stage? Doesn’t make sense to me. Unless the Bucs could sign him then trade him for someone who hits from the right side. Unlikely, but more realistic than your best six hitters all being lefties.
by RDV across the sea on Feb 11, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
That sound you hear in the middle of the night, when you're trying to sleep?
Some night, that’ll be me.
If I were the Pirates
I’d “express interest” in every big-ticket free agent. Doesn’t cost anything, and you never actually have to pony up the money to sign one, but it might at least give other players the impression that you’re a player in the market again for more than scraps.
I’m a copy editor, and my two-second reaction was that the Times’ lifting without attribution is a big journalism no-no. But on reflection, it’s just a list of facts, easily available to anyone with access to bb-ref and a search program. The facts belong to all of us, as opposed to quotes or anecdotes and other information gleaned by visual observation.
You might say it’s wrong for Crasnick to do the actual research and the Times to just “borrow” it, but think how many times it’s probably been written (after the first guy actually dug up the numbers) that, for example, “Barry Bonds is the first player to [combine X Y and Z stats]” without attribution. Probably nobody even knows who did the actual number-crunching. Or if I wrote “Nate McLouth hit X with Y homers and Z RBIs in 2008,” which is obviously something Dejan has probably written 10 or 12 times this winter. It’s a collection of numbers. If Crasnick had drawn some conclusion from those numbers — “Abreu is the best hitter available” or something like that — and the Times cribbed it as well, maybe that takes it over the line.
Obviously, the polite thing to do would be to mention Crasnick, but I don’t know that it was a sin not to.
Sportswriters and especially baseball writers are (or used to be) notorious for borrowing from each other. Many years ago I happened to look at the Sunday notes columns written by writers at papers at Newsday and I think it was Providence one weekend, and about a third of the notes were identical. I don’t know if it’s the practice anymore, maybe the baseball writing fraternity isn’t as chummy as it used to be, but my understanding is these guys had 40-inch Sunday columns to fill and would swap their notes all the time. And nobody bothered with niceties such as “Jerry Crasnick did some research and …” If one guy found out something like that, it belonged to all of them.
LA Times
I’m only surprised the LA Times attributed the information to espn.com. Typically, a paper will slightly rewrite the information — after double-checking to make sure it’s accurate — and present it as its own. I also wouldn’t be surprised if Crasnick got the information from another source. That stat seems like it leaped from a press release.
Not surprised they kicked the tires on him...
…but like Charlie, I suspect this is pretty much a dead issue at this point.
LA Times
Wow, Abreu has “spent his ENTIRE big league career with the Houston Astros, Philadelphia Phillies and Yankees”?
Who says team loyalty is dead?
Eh, sort-of.
He left the Astros because he got picked in the expansion draft (by Tampa, who immediately flipped him for Kevin Stocker), and he left the Phillies because he got traded. He’s never left a team of his own free will before. This offseason, he tried to re-sign with the Yankees, but was rebuffed – they didn’t even offer him arbitration.
But yeah, it’s kind of a dumb sentence construct.
3-4-5
Abreu is almost a 3-4-5 guy, with slash stats of .300/.405/.498. Maybe he can even those out before his career is up.
Bobby Abreu Will Be 35 On Opening Day
If the Pirates were actually thinking that they could contend in 2009 in the division, and if they could sign him for $1-2 million with attractive upside performance bonuses based on the team’s and his personal performance, this signing might make sense,
But bucdaddy is right.
Why shouldn’t the Pirates ‘express interest’ in everybody? It will please what is left of the ‘fan base’.
But as for the players, you can’t/don’t fool the players on the 25 man, or even 40 man roster. The players are very wise to management, regardless of which franchise you are talking about. They know which owners/front offices want to win, which of these will go the “extra mile” to win, and they evn know which ones have a plan/know what they are doing.
The word gets around fast among the players and it eventually filters down.
We can also...
end the Adam Dunn discussions. Nats…2 years…$20M…according to ESPN.
And we can also also. . .
end this discussion. Abreu to Angels . . . 1 year . . . $5-$8M depending on incentives . . . according to ESPN.
I would be interested though
in your thoughts about whether Dunn and Abreu signings puts Scott Boras and Manny in the driver’s seat in their negotiations with the Blue Crew.
What’s the Dodgers backup plan now if they don’t sign Manny? Luis Gonzalez? Jim Edmonds? Ken Griffey? Garrett Anderson? Old Man Time patrolling LF carrying his scythe?
I hate to say this, but it’s starting to look good for Scot Boras and Manny.
I heard a lot of Griffey to the Angels rumors but those seem no longer relevant since Abreu signed.
I made most of my life decisions at a Foghat concert... I stand by them.
by Chester J Lampwick on Feb 11, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
WstCstBucco - RE: Manny
wait Boras and Manny out.
There is NO WAY that the Dodgers, or anyone else, should go longer than one year, and I think that offering him $20-25 million as a base salary is totally absurd.
Manny was playing “hard” in LA last year to get the BIG contract. Anyone that offers him more than a one year deal with heavy incentives is making a BIG mistake. Let him earn the big money through production.
He is a great player whenever he decides to play. It’s hard to motivate the very few eccentric players like Manny.
What's Manny's backup plan if the Dodgers don't meet his price?
Who are the Dodgers bidding against?
Let the game of "chicken" begin
Scott Boras vs. Unca Ned Colletti.
No one hates Boras more than I do. But the fact is neither Manny nor the Dodgers have a Plan B. Boras can pretend the Giants are interested, and Colletti can pretend that the Dodgers have an offense without Manny.
So who is going to blink?
Expect Boras to clean Colletti’s clock.
by WstCstBucco on Feb 12, 2009 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
There's still some talent out there.
The Dodgers could upgrade significantly by paying for Hudson, for instance.
And while the signings of Dunn and Abreu take out the Dodgers’ best two backup plans, they also take out two of the few clubs who might have plausibly been interested in Manny.
I think he signs after the end of spring training, for something like the Dodgers’ earlier offer.
What about Xavier Paul?
His numbers and scouting reports make him look like a near-clone of Either. Less power, more speed, better OF. I suppose I don’t really care, but if he impresses in the spring, that could increase LA’s leverage. What do you know about Paul?
Offensive numbers look weak.
Vegas is a good place to hit. Paul put up a .316/.378/.463 line, which looks good in isolation but in context means that he was seventh on the team in OPS (among guys with 200+ AB). Terry Tiffee and Luis Maza both batted .378 there last year, and Paul was 50 points of OPS behind LaRoche, when LaRoche was playing through his thumb problem. The zMLE for it is .256/.305/.349, which would be pretty rough for a corner OF, even one with a good glove.
BA just had their chat for Dodgers prospects, and when they were asked about Paul, they said that he’s probably a 4th OF unless he can improve his D enough to stick in center. I guess there’s always a chance, but I wouldn’t put any money on him.
Among Dodger OFs, Andrew Lambo is the guy to watch, but he probably needs another year.
Xavier Paul and Andrew Lambo . . .
. . . don’t scare Scot Boras. They’re not actively being touted by Colletti or Torre as being ready if the LAD don’t sign Manny.
LAD is now saying they’re not afraid to go with Juan Pierre as Plan B in LF if Manny doesn’t sign.
That is to laugh.
Manny regularly hits more HR in a month than the 13 HR Juan Pierre has hit in his lifetime.
Signing of Abreu and Dunn hurts, not helps Colletti. Neither LAA nor Nats was a Manny fan.
Angels were screaming every day that they were never in the hunt for Manny. They are known as a “good character-required” team under Sciosca, ever since they took Jose Guillen off their post-season roster in 2004 for active jerkism despite some flashy stats. Nats GM Jim Bowden publicly said over and over again, as recently as 2/2, that Washington was not interested in Manny.
Based on past track records Boras vs. Colletti is like Secretariat vs. The Old Gray Mare in the Kentucky Derby.
Expressed interest?
I heard a guy the other day who “expressed interest” in Jessica Alba. Didn’t mean he was going to land her.
Quotation
There was some thing on Fire Joe Morgan a year or two ago where someone did some research and found that there is a pool of stuff like that that writers from all different sources draw on, and it’s kind of known only to journalists that this goes on…. too lazy to find the article though.
by Carnival Matleuse on Feb 13, 2009 1:31 AM EST reply actions

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