All praise... Barry Bonds?
by ILLZ on Feb 12, 2009 4:31 PM EST
14 comments
In light of the recent admission by Alex Rodriguez that he knowingly took illegal PED's from 2001-2003, I think it becomes even clearer than previously thought that we are, indeed, comparing oranges to oranges.
When Barry Bonds walked away from the game he brought with him an amazing amount of records and jaw-dropping stats, and all kinds of other unbelievable anecdotes (I remember about 5 years ago he had more homeruns than swings-and-misses through May, or something crazy like that). Everybody was so quick to blow it all off because of his obvious steroid/HGH use. While some indirectly eluded to it, nobody came out and said, "who cares what he was on, they were all on it... it's a somewhat level playing field". I think this was mainly for two reasons: First, people hate Barry Bonds. I mean, people really freaking hate him. Even if they thought that he was without a doubt better than anybody else, it would be a cold day in hell when they'd admit to it. And this isn't necessarily without good cause. He's proven time and time again how big of a raging a**hole he is. I'm sure we all remember the now infamous spring training screaming match between he and Leyland in the early '90's. Yeah, even back then he was 'roid ragin'. The other reason nobody came out and said he's better than everybody else is because it wasn't always apparent that everybody was juicing. And now...
A-ROD took them for 3 years (I don't buy for a second that he only took them for 3 years, but that's really neither here nor there). Let's take a look at Rodriguez's averages from '01-'03: 615 SLG, 1010 OPS, and 52 HR's. This was in the prime of his career (ages 26-28), and playing in a hitter's park. Bonds slugged 607 FOR HIS CAREER. He slugged 800 THREE TIMES!! 800!! He OPS'ed 1000 FOR HIS CAREER. He OPS'ed 1000 or better for 14 straight seasons, including 1278 or better 4 times. So, let's get this straight. Quite possibly the single most gifted baseball player ever to step onto a field was on PED's for 3 seasons, in his prime, playing in a hitter's park, and he wasn't even in Barry's league.
I'm not trying to say Bonds is the best ever, that he's better than Ruth, or anything like that. Yes, Bonds took steroids and Babe Ruth did not. (Ruth also didn't have to hit the split finger, or deal with HOF-caliber pitchers... on steroids. I'm digressing again). I'm just saying he's been better than everybody else for the last 20 years, and it isn't even close... at all.
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Bonds’ numbers from 2001-2004 look like the numbers you’d get in a video game if you created a player that just 100s for every batting stat. He got on base more than 60% of the time in 2004! You’re apparently “not trying to say Bonds is the best ever” – well, I WILL go ahead and say that.
There are of course other reasons for the big numbers nowadays than PEDs (I think their effect is overblown). I think developments like thinner bat handles and sluggers being standing almost on top of the plate certainly contribute more to a player’s power game than PEDs.
And Bonds
didn’t hafta play against Cobb. Or Gibson. Or Drysdale. Or anyone who would throw at his head.
just sayin’.
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- HST
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 13, 2009 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
Ruth wouldn't have played against Gibson or Drysdale either.
Drysdale because he was born after Ruth died, and Gibson because he was black to boot.
And while Cobb was good with the fists and the spikes, it’s not like outfielders on different teams really interact with each other all that often.
It's a point, not sure how good
In the 1920’s, the percentage of non-whites was almost as low as 10. In Bonds’ era, it’s been over 20. In Ruth’s era, if you were an athlete, you were most likely a ballplayer, boxer, or jockey (I’m simplifying). Today it’s different. Ruth also wasn’t a full time hitter until he was 24. I’m just saying I think the race factor in Ruth’s era has been somewhat overstated.
And something doesn’t sit right with how his game didn’t rise so far above his peers until he was 35. Maybe he’s just a freak (in a good way), and maybe I’m just jealous because 35 was when I started falling apart.
Not sure what you mean by this:
“In the 1920’s, the percentage of non-whites was almost as low as 10.”
In the 1920s, you’re talking about a handful of Native Americans, guys like Chief Bender and Ben Tincup. I’d be shocked if it even got close to 10%.
The percentage of the US population that was non-white
I’m trying to say that while it’s unfortunate they never got the chance, if they did get the chance, I don’t think there would have been a huge influx of non-white players to the majors. If in 1920 MLB had honestly and fairly flung open its doors, most rosters would not have dramatically changed. Thus, neither would have Ruth’s competition.
"If In 1920 MLB Had Flung Open Its Doors...."
Boy is that a big IF!
Funny thing about when the southern colleges finally let blacks play football in the 60s or 70s. And they only let them play so that they could compete! How do you think that the southern schools would be doing right now against the USCs, Penn States, Ohio States, Michigans and other collegiate powerhouses had they not opened their doors?
The same holds true with baseball. If there had not been complete segregation in baseball and if blacks had been able to play and had been encouraged to play in the 20s without fear of reprisal, there would have been many great black players. Remember, there was no NFL or NBA back then, so most of the great black athletes played baseball.
That is simply not true today. Today, the really great black athletes (with a little size) gravitate to football and basketball
But the times back then were so totally different that it could never have actually happened. Personally, I still think that today, most major league franchises have “unwritten quotas” on the number of non-white players on the 25 man roster.
" I still think that today, most major league franchises have "unwritten quotas" on the number of non-white players on the 25 man roster."
I gotta disagree with you here…I think things are WAY too competitive today for any team to handcuff itself by willingly sacrificing the product on the field to fulfill some kind of unspoken racial makeup.
Wait a minute...
I was just watching a special on the negro leagues on the MLB channel the other day, and Negro League teams played against MLB teams 400 or 500 times during various exhibitions and the Negro League teams won close to 75% of the matchups. They very well would have changed the landscape of the game if they’d been included earlier on, just as they changed the landscape of the game immediately after they eventually were invited to the party.
As far as the .750 Negro League winning %, who knows what other factors may play into that (such as certain whites refusing to play against blacks, etc.), but I gotta say it was a major factor.
Also a great point.
I believe they didn’t have west coast trips back then either, but I’m not entirely sure so I left it out.
Bonds is the best
Every batting statistic posible, Bonds dominates. But like ILLZ says, just because people don’t like Bonds, people will come up with reasons why he’s not the best. The only reason pitcher’s would throw at his head (which is a big target), was if he was showing up the other team, which no matter how big of an ahole he is, would be smart enough not to do back then. Pitchers have to respect the code of the game, when it comes to being a man, you shouldn’t try to hurt someone just because they’re better than you. I just don’t think it’s right to discredit his unbelievable achievements when it comes to taking steriods. How many minor leaguers took the same stuff as him and got no where in life? Unless it comes to in-the-game cheating, such as somehow knowing what pitch was coming or the location, I give Bonds all the credit for his numbers.
Bonds
I think he belongs in the hall. He is the single greatest baseball player that ever walked this planet. He put up numbers nobody had ever seen. He stole bases. He won gold gloves. He did it all. I was at the game after he broke the all time home run record in Pittsburgh. I sat in left field and went nuts as he jogged out to his position. It was one of the best moments I ever saw in person. The Pirates showed serious class by allowing Barry to speak between the 2 games of the double header. They played a tribute video and the crowd loved him. Gave hima HUGE standing ovation. It was amazing. Steroids or no steroids these moments will go down forever, so should his records. Amen.
BRING BACK TIKE REDMAN
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