McLouth and Bucs reach long term deal
by EndlessMike on Feb 17, 2009 7:52 AM EST
24 comments
According to Dejan, Nate and the Bucs reached a three year deal with a club option for a fourth year.
I was pretty sure they were going to make a deal to avoid arbitration, but not a multiyear deal - which talks of had gone badly early on, and in all thoughts, abandoned.
Good for the Bucs. Good for Nate.
UPDATE by Charlie: It's three years, $15.75 million, plus an option for 2012 for, basically, $9.4 million ($10.65 million minus a $1.25 million buyout, which I've already included in the cost of the contract). The key here, as with the contracts for Ryan Doumit and Paul Maholm, is the 2012 option. Thanks to these contracts, the Pirates will have a considerable amount of flexibility that year, and they could cobble together a pretty good team by then if they play their cards right. Nice move by the Bucs.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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Terms are up on PBC blog
Total guaranteed money is $15.75 million, option is worth $10.65 million (in 2012). The full breakdown is on the blog.
Nice!
That is almost certainly a bargain in a world where Ryan Howard makes more than that per year in arbitration.
Yes, but...
Ryan Howard has also been Rookie of the Year, a top-5 finisher in the MVP race three times (and won once), has a career OPS+ of 143 and has hit 177 HR in 3 1/2 years in MLB.
Nate’s accomplishments are a bit more modest by comparison, which is why he makes the money he does and why Howard makes what he does.
They're closer than they seem
McLouth is a Gold Glove CF (yeah, yeah, I know) while Howard is an atrocious-fielding 1B — even leaving aside his horrible range, he committed 19 (!) errors last year. Nate also adds some baserunning value.
I’d still rather have Howard, but he isn’t thrice as valuable.
Not quite
McLouth is a nice piece in a lineup who will give you a little of everything, but Howard is a difference-maker in a lineup. Think of how many teams would dump their everyday CF (or DH) for McLouth and how many would dump their everyday 1B (or DH) for Howard; the numbers wouldn’t even be close.
howard
the illusion doesn’t match the reality.
Howard last season – 124 OPS+
McLouth last season – 126 OPS+
They also had the same number of runs created, with Nate producing it in 10 fewer games. Of course, OPS+ is not perferct, nor is RC, and other metrics and statistics show Howard to be superior. However, Howard is also 2 years older, plays atrocious defense at the most useless NL position, has no speed, and is already going through a big decline over the last 2 years. Meanwhile, McLouth plays CF, a much tougher defensive position (obviously not GG caliber, but still) and adds much more value on the basepaths, and continues to get better. It is possible McLouth just had a career year, but everyone consistently overrates Howard based on old-style HR and RBI thinking.
by richmondpirate on Feb 17, 2009 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
Great Deal!
Got to give credit to the new leadership. They are doing alot of good things.
Cometh the hour, cometh the man.
PBC blog gives a fantastic insight from McLouth’s agent Mike Nicotera, on how Frank Coonelly got this deal done in person, face to face with McLouth in the early hours at a Phoenix hotel.
Strong leadership can go a helluva long way to repairing a broken organization.
by RDV across the sea on Feb 17, 2009 12:40 PM EST reply actions
RDV Across The Sea - I Agree About Strong Leadership ...
but obviously, McLouth would have accepted this same deal a week ago, and he would not have had to have had to fly to Phoenix to work out this deal at 1:20 am before the scheduled arbitration hearing.
In my opinion, this is not strong leadership.
McLouth was in the driver’s seat and Coonelly knew it. McLouth’s salary for 2009 would have jumpred from around $400K+ to at least whatever the Pirates offered – around $2.6 - or it would have jumped to the McLouth figure which is almost what he is getting for 2009 in the new deal when you total the signing bonus, 2009 salary. and incentives.
McLouth may have done better going to arbitration and taking whatever he was awarded. But it is a good deal for everyone because it provides the Pirates “cost certainty” and it gives McLouth some nice security.
When you think about it, in 2007 during the final days of Tracy and Littlefield, I would imagine that McLouth would have had a hard time envisioning this bonanza.
But I would definitely NOT attribute this to strong leadership.
Why is it obvious that he would've taken the same deal a week ago?
Nobody’s saying that he would’ve.
And I think it’s kind of funny that you won’t give Coonelly credit for strong leadership here, when Nate’s agent was quoted as doing exactly that: “Give Frank the credit,” Nicotera said. “He got really involved last week, and he made clear to Nate that he wanted to establish a long-term relationship. The Pirates came up with all different kinds of ways. It was at Frank’s urging that we went back to a multiyear. We didn’t come out here expecting that.” (Link)
I've read and re-read 'thegunner's post.
And I can’t believe he can question Frank Coonelly’s ability to get this deal done.
Words of thegunner – ‘But it is a good deal for everyone because it provides the Pirates "cost certainty" and it gives McLouth some nice security.’
If it’s a good deal for everyone then Coonelly has done his job, right?
The fact that he did his job after midnight in a Phoenix hotel, discussing money with a player and his agent, smacks of a man that cares desperately.
by RDV across the sea on Feb 17, 2009 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
Coonelly's Move ...
was one of desperation, not leadership.
Desperation for what?
They could have done this deal after the arb hearing too. I have no idea what the timing has to do with whether this is good leadership, bad leadership, or it it just… is.
Your comments are of a someone desperate to be proven correct by whatever means possible. Spin it any way you like, the deal is favorable to the Pirates, therefore, a good move by Pirates management.
Besides thegunner, what’s the important part again? Talent evaluation, right? So keep watchin’. But please, stop posting.
I don't know why
you guys bother reading thegunner’s post. They’re just going to irritate you. I don’t read them anymore, and my mood has improved 32.7%.
Yeah...
I’m embarrassed to admit that I stuck up for him in a thread a few days ago. After reading this and the several “wait and see” comment in every friggin post it is clear he is a troll. He’s entertaining…it’s fun reading his rdiculous post especially when he contradicts himself.
That's interesting
I wasn’t going to comment, but work had me in such a foul mood I needed he outlet. 32.7% huh? I haven’t adjusted for thread size but I actually gained just over one mood share by responding. But you’re right, because reading him cost me almost two mood shares, so i’m playing a negative sum game there.
Hooray!
It may be a long season this year, but it slowly is starting to like like there might be at least a flicker of light at the end of this long losing tunnel. Congrats to Frank for making this happen.
Charlie says:
“Thanks to these contracts, the Pirates will have a considerable amount of flexibility that year, and they could cobble together a pretty good team by then if they play their cards right. Nice move by the Bucs.”
Sounds like strong leadership with careful attention to long-term planning to build a successful team as soon as possible.
As usual, thegunner is wrong.
Another thought....
Let’s not forget the signal this deal and the others that have been completed sends to the players. Not just the players that signed and the other members of the PBC, but those players who may look at signing deals to come here as free agents. It’s no secret that Pittsburgh has become the place no one wants to have to sign a deal to come to and play. We have seen it more and more the past couple of years where the Pirates were passed over by players and in some cases accepted less money to play elsewhere. But with guys like Doumit, Maholm, Capps and McClouth signed and young talent like Alvarez and McCutcheon on the way, other players can see signs of a real foundation being built. It does show there is a plan. Now, these guys come get hurt or be busts, but at least the plan is there and if things go as planned, we should see some positive results.
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