Pirates Considering Looking Outside Organization for Relievers
John Perrotto reports that the Pirates will consider looking outside the organization for relievers:
The pitching has been so disappointing that General Manager Neal Huntington said Sunday he is looking outside the organization to strengthen the staff and would be amenable to a trade, waiver claim or free-agent signing.
Pirate Revolution had an interesting article recently about playing time issues that could work in the Pirates' favor, and those issues affect relievers as well, as they did when the Bucs acquired Tyler Yates last spring for Todd Redmond.
While the Pirates obviously ought to seriously think about any move that might improve the team, there are a couple of dangers to acquiring players now. First, if you trade for someone, you have to give something up. The Yates trade, for example, has been maligned quite a bit here. I don't want to overstate my problems with the trade, because mostly I think Redmond is a polished prospect and a flyball pitcher who is unlikely to have much success in the majors, but a team like the Pirates should have to receive very good talent to even give up the chance that someone like Redmond might help for several years, and Tyler Yates doesn't get the job done.
Another problem is that the Pirates have a number of marginal relievers they risk losing if they don't make the team. Sean Burnett and Craig Hansen are out of options, and Donald Veal will be lost if he doesn't make the team as a Rule 5 pick. None of the three have had encouraging springs--Burnett has a 10.80 ERA, Hansen has a passable ERA but has ten walks against eleven strikeouts, and Veal has a nice ERA but has eleven walks against five strikeouts.
I could see the Pirates getting rid of Veal or Burnett, but I think Hansen will make the team. Yates, Matt Capps and John Grabow are in, too, and Evan Meek is also making a strong case to be included (although he's currently shut down with a tired arm). That only leaves two spots for other pitchers. So the Pirates' ability to add an extra reliever may be closely tied to their decisions about whether to keep Veal and/or Burnett--it's just a numbers game, and they could have a pretty bad bullpen this year simply by being unwilling to part with these guys.
So any reliever acquired from outside the organization will force the Pirates to make decisions about which players they want to keep in the organization. I liked Veal as a Rule 5 pick, but he's shown enough of the same old problems that I think it's probably time to send him back. And Burnett is maxed out as a low-leverage reliever. Fans will probably be upset if the Pirates dump him (remember the ridiculous controversy over his not making the team out of Spring Training last year?), but he doesn't help the team much with his pitching.
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Comments
Responses!
1) Getting rid of Burnett makes all kinds of sense. There just isn’t much talent there.
2) I’d really like to try and hang on to Veal, if possible. As wild as he’s been, he’s made progress, and he could be very effective in the future.
3) Dumatrait (or whomever he bumps out of the rotation) may end up with a bullpen spot in a month or so – worth thinking about, in terms of roster planning.
4) Will Ohman is supposedly willing to sign for something like $1.75M. If they need a reliever, why aren’t they getting that done?
In the event that we do end up making a trade/claim, it might be with the Braves. Atlanta is supposedly shopping some of their swingmen, including Jorge Campillo and ex-Buc prospect Jeff Bennett.
by Vlad on Mar 23, 2009 10:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
signing ohman
was the first thing i thought about when i read that article. perhaps they’re being tight lipped because they’re in negotiations?
if all of our decisions are between crap and more crap i’d expect them to go with the highest upside, meaning veal would have a better shot. iirc, meek’s spring numbers were pretty bad last year but they carried him anyhow because there weren’t any options that were clearly better.
by johnnycuff on Mar 23, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bennett
I find it interesting the way the Braves market their trash.
Without looking at the numbers, and I may very well be wrong, I don’t think Bennett makes our team.
And Carlisle? No thanks…
by God Loves on Mar 23, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really? No Bennett?
For his career, he’s got an ERA a hair better than league average, and acceptable peripherals: 6.3 K/9, 3.8 BB/9, 1.0 HR/9. Little high on the walk rate, but much better than some of the guys we’re planning on right now. And he’s minimum salary. And he has experience working out of both the rotation and the pen.
I wouldn’t give up anything great to get him, but I’d think a guy like that would have a role on the staff.
by Vlad on Mar 24, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lose Burnett? Don’t care. He’s shot, and if it means another link to the days of poor drafting are gone (JVB, Bullington), that’s fine.
Lose Hansen? Big PR problem, since he was part of the Bay trade.
Lose Veal? As a Rule 5, he’s on an essentially free tryout, so no big loss if he makes it; Rule 5’s are about finding hidden upside, not worrying if the guy doesn’t pan out.
As for trading for someone, does it matter if the bullpen is good this year? Why give up a potential useful player for the future to bolster this year’s team? Don’t waste a piece of lumber to patch an already-sinking ship when you may need it to float on once the ship goes down.
by Bishop1973 on Mar 23, 2009 10:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Niemann
I think it goes without saying that if he is available the Pirates should be falling over themselves to acquire him.
by GTrain on Mar 23, 2009 10:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
To get someone like Niemann...
…they’d probably have to give up real talent. Tampa won’t toss a guy like that our way for Nyjer and a bag of chips.
It might still be a good idea anyway, but it’s important to be realistic about costs before getting too invested in someone else’s player.
by Vlad on Mar 23, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree, Vlad.
I’m sure that we’d be upset with who we’d have to give up to get Niemann.
by God Loves on Mar 23, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does Shawn Chacon
have a job? I mean, if you just need somebody to eat innings and get you through the year, not somebody who’s particularly good.
by bucdaddy on Mar 23, 2009 11:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't Shawn Chacon . . .
. . . be a better choice for MMA than MLB?
It’d take a brave general manager to bring him onto his team. I hear Ed Wade still has Chacon’s fingerprints on his neck.
Just asking. :)
by WstCstBucco on Mar 23, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If wanting to choke Ed Wade were a disqualifier...
…no team in the league would fill their 25-man roster.
Chacon is nothing special, but the Houston thing isn’t any real reason to disqualify him. His performance does a good enough job of that on its own – aren’t we trying to find a guy who throws strikes?
by Vlad on Mar 23, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will accept
that everyone in MLB not named Pudge would want to choke out Ed Wade.
But Shawn went a wee bit further and actually let his fingers do the talking.
Doesn’t Shawn Chacon have a weird Star Trek curse thing going? He only pitches well in odd years? (Like only even number Star Trek movies are any good.)
by WstCstBucco on Mar 23, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On a more real note
Mets are about to release Freddy Garcia, who is only signed to a minor league deal. Livian Hernandez has won the 5th starter job.
Garcia has hardly pitched since he blew out his arm in 2007 (and hid it from the Phillies), and has had a horrible spring. But he’s only 32, and used to be lights out. If he could pass the physical, he might be worth considering — he could move Karstens to the pen.
I got no problem getting rid of Burnett and Veal. Both haven’t shown much — what happened to the stories of how Burnett was super now that he was moving from side-to-side on the rubber? Hansen probably is worth hanging onto for a few more months.
I still can’t understand Huntington’s promise that if you don’t play well you’re off the team — doesn’t the fact that Nyjer Morgan’s won the starting LF job and leadoff prove him a total liar??
by WstCstBucco on Mar 23, 2009 12:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i don't think Nyjer
has won the starting LF job. From what I read in one of the PG’s Columns, he has to get on base more, shrink his strike zone and use the bunt more to his advantage and in my opinon…it’s been like 2-3 years we have been telling him to do this and he just hasn’t shown it. He goes down to AAA plays well, then comes to the majors and doesn’t. almost sounds like a Quad-A player to me. Sure he can run and cover centerfield very well, but Nate showed us that last year. Garrett Jones has played well to earn a spot and so has Craig Munroe. so I think right now if Nyjer doesn’t shape up, you may see him go down to AAA again. I get the feeling he’s just outmatched by MLB pitching.
by lfhlaw on Mar 23, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish you were right
DK and Honest Wagner both had it. it’s from the official Pirate website:
Morgan, who has been named the team’s starting left fielder
http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090321&content_id=4041692
My favorite:
As Huntington suggested, Morgan is still a work in progress. The results this spring have been mixed.
And I hear the passengers on the Titantic thought the results of its maiden voyage were mixed.
by WstCstBucco on Mar 23, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nyjer's performance IS mixed:
Sometimes it’s bad, and sometimes it’s terrible. A wide range of options!
by Vlad on Mar 23, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting idea about Garcia...
…but I fear he would be another Baldelli. The Yankees or Red Sox or Dodgers would offer him comparable money to what the Pirates would, and he would go there for the possibility to be on a contender at some point. As the Pirates’ fifth starter, he would get some opportunities against lesser competition, in regards to the opponents’ starters, but all he would be doing is filling a slot until one of the younger guys (Gorzelanny, McCutcheon) figured it out at Indy or until he is traded. I just don’t see it with him, but maybe I’m wrong.
by Bishop1973 on Mar 23, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Garcia would jump at the chance . . .
. . . for a one year contract with the PBC. He needs to show he still can get major league batters out. He may never get a chance with the Yanks, Red Sox or Dodgers this year if he signed with them. And he’s probably available for the major league minimum.
It’s a Kenny Lofton, Reggie Sanders kind of signing.
by WstCstBucco on Mar 23, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On top of that
if he pitched any where near decent, he could be traded mid-season to a contending team for some young players.
That is…unless the PBC decided that he was pitching well enough to keep and was affordable considering the starting pitchers they currently have in AAA and at the major league level.
by lfhlaw on Mar 23, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Garcia's velo is down in the 80s.
That’s why hes been getting smashed this spring – his stuff is gone. Maybe it’ll come back down the road (stranger things have happened), but until it does, he won’t be any help to us.
by Vlad on Mar 23, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I see it
With Donnie Veal, they could try to get him through waivers, but according to NH, most likely there is some other team who’s keeping on eye on him and probably will nab him if he does go through waivers and I think they’ve seen enough of him that they’ll keep him. Consider Evan Meek Had the same problem with walks and this year he’s been pretty decent so far. If the Bullpen gets situated better, I think they can kind of bury him there for a bit until he gets more comfortable or develops more control.
Hansen I think they’ll keep as he has a slightly better pitching arsenal in comparison to burnett. Maybe Kerrigan can help with control, but Idk if he can work miracles on that.
Most likely you may see Burnett get release. I think he’ll find another job for another team, but it probably won’t be the pirates.
Freddy Garcia wouldn’t be a bad pick up if he has to be released and he can show that he’s healthy. At least it would be another veteran who could chew up some innings.
by lfhlaw on Mar 23, 2009 12:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Veal goes through waivers
Doesn’t the PBC have to first offer him back to the White Sox for $25K?
by WstCstBucco on Mar 23, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
both
he’s put on waivers and if he’s claimed, that teams is subject to the usual rule 5 roster rules. if he clears waivers he has to be offered back to his original team for 25k.
by johnnycuff on Mar 23, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Johnny is correct.
That’s why Jose Bautista ended up playing for three other teams in the year when he was chosen from us in the Rule 5 – every time the team holding him put him on waivers to return him to us, he got claimed by somebody else.
I think it’s unlikely that the Cubs would rather have $25K than Veal. If we want him, we need to hold him.
by Vlad on Mar 23, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the plus side for our depth...
…it’s looking like Kyle Bloom isn’t going to make Detroit’s pen. 8.44 ERA and 1.50 WHIP in five innings.
by Vlad on Mar 23, 2009 5:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Does Huntington . . .
. . . have a “no backsies” policy? He trashed Bloom pretty bad when he got drafted. If he’s telling the truth, he might prefer to keep the $25K.
Does Bloom have options left if he came back — I’d guess so? Looks like he’d clear waivers — that ERA and WHIP are not going to encourage anyone to pick him up for their 25 man roster for the whole year.
by WstCstBucco on Mar 23, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bloom has three options left
I don’t think Huntington has anything against him. He just thought Bloom wasn’t ready – which he isn’t.
by Vlad on Mar 23, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Garcia
I would love to get the guy. He can still pitch. Im sure of that. He cant be worse than what we have. Its another no risk signing.
I GOT MY STREET BUZZ BEFORE I GOT MY PEACH FUZZ
by omar moreno on Mar 24, 2009 7:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If we aren't willing to pay for Ohman...
…Aaron Fultz was just released by the Reds. Situational lefty, could be an upgrade on Burnett. For his career, he’s at a 4.26 ERA and a 1.36 WHIP. 35 years old.
He pitched for Cleveland while Huntington was there in 2007 and did quite well, which probably wouldn’t hurt his chances.
by Vlad on Mar 24, 2009 10:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Luis Vizcaino is supposedly on the bubble in Chicago
Link. We tried to sign him as a FA a few years back, but he took less money to go to Colorado instead. He’s generally average-ish. Throws hard, misses bats, marginal control, shaky secondary stuff. We could probably get him for next-to-nothing if we pick up part of his deal (he’s set to earn $3.5M this year, and has a $500k buyout on a 2010 option).
by Vlad on Mar 24, 2009 11:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Charlie...
If Burnett doesn’t help the team much with his pitching,maybe he could learn to play the ukelele and entertain the rest of the bullpen? :) Seriously,the lackluster relief performance(already…again) does not bode well for a quick start again this season,does it?
by rissaldar on Mar 24, 2009 4:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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