Makes You Smile
by Charlie Wilmoth on Mar 26, 2009 2:54 PM EDT
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PrintJayson Stark's article on Pedro Alvarez.
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Looking forward to seeing
El Toro in the next few years!!
"The team that scores the most points wins."
John Madden
(Master of the obvious)
Because he's on El Matatan
"The team that scores the most points wins."
John Madden
(Master of the obvious)
Meh.
I hope that he does well for the team, but after he went back on his contract, I’ll probably never like him or root for him. All the puff pieces in the world can’t change that.
What about a World Series?
"The team that scores the most points wins."
John Madden
(Master of the obvious)
Agreed totally
As long as he’s with the Pirates I wish him the best because him performing well will help the Pirates but on an individual level I will never support him.
I made most of my life decisions at a Foghat concert... I stand by them.
by Chester J Lampwick on Mar 26, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I think this is kind of silly
First of all, consider his age. If you were a super-mature 22yo, I salute you.
Second, I don’t know that we know the whole story. Just for instance, why didn’t the FO make more of a stink? If they were so right, they should have been aggressive from August 1. I think they knew there was a question right from the start.
Vlad, while “ultimately” the player is the boss, and Boras works for them, there is a reason athletes and other hire agents/representatives. The agent knows the business, the 22yo kid who’s been on scholarship usually does not. Boras isn’t some fly by night guy. From a player’s perspective, he’s about as good as it gets.
So I’m fine with him. I consider the circumstances questionable — on both sides. Until he signs another one, this was Alvarez’s LAST contract. I don’t blame him for having it negotiated like that.
Having just turned 22 I realize I am not super mature and I will make decisions now that I will frown upon later but I still don’t think that is an excuse.
I agree that the PBC should have respected the midnight deadline but they didn’t and no stink was raised for several months which is why I question the motives of Pedro.
I made most of my life decisions at a Foghat concert... I stand by them.
by Chester J Lampwick on Mar 26, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
There's nothing wrong with wanting to max out your payday.
But Alvarez made an agreement, and then backed out on it. Therefore, he has no honor. He’s a cheat and a fraud, and I wouldn’t trust him any farther than I can spit.
Some 22-year-olds are immature, yes. But they’re old enough to drink, vote, enlist, and be prosecuted as adults. I don’t think that it’s unreasonable to expect ethical behavior from someone of that age.
And to answer your question: The FO didn’t make more of a stink because they didn’t want to poison the well, as far as Alvarez playing here in the future. People in Philadelphia still throw batteries at JD Drew whenever he comes to town.
vlad i almost always agree with you
but not this time. how can you say that a world series wouldnt even get you to like alvarez? thats such a ridiculous statement. hes a kid. his agent was scott boras. and as was already stated if it was really that big of a deal, the FO wouldve been much harsher. there was way more to this story than what we heard. give the kid a fair shot.
I GOT MY STREET BUZZ BEFORE I GOT MY PEACH FUZZ
You can think what you want.
A World Series would be nice. But if we’re going to win it, I’d want to win it the right way. With guys that I like and respect.
YMMV, and that’s fine.
What I meant by "stink"
They wouldn’t have had to attack. I’d have to go back and check the news stories, but it seemed like the FO was rather casual with his not reporting. They didn’t seem to say much until the grievance. I don’t think going public with wondering where he was and why he hadn’t reported would poison the well. I think they knew the agreement came under questionable circumstances.
Stated another way, 22 year olds are old enough to decide whether to drink, to vote, who to vote for, whether to enlist. Their choices in those matters may also reflect a lack of maturity, and they could regret them later.
And we can agree to disagree, but I guess what’s really taking me aback here is the level of vitriol you’re showing for him. I think you language is awfully strong, considering what is known and what may not be known.
And if those 22-year olds drive drunk or get killed in Iraq or vote for the wrong guy...
…then they don’t get a magic reset button just because they’re 22. Actions have consequences. As they say in AA, you can’t un-ring a bell.
I don’t wish him any ill. But as far as me liking or respecting him, that ship has sailed.
Exactly.
I hold Pedro accountable for all of the horse manure last summer. It was an unreasonable, bad faith power play. I remain open minded and hopeful that he will change my opinion of him, but I doubt he will. Hopefully he is kick ass for the 6.5 years that we get him before he leaves.
Good day.
I forgive you, Pedro!! :)
A little too much “will the blue-collar, steel city fans accept Pedro” stuff for me, but YMMV (as Vlad’s apparently does). I blame Scott Bora$$.
I put this down as the first of what will hopefully be millions of national articles on the Legend of Pedro Alvarez. It’s just like the Ballad of John Henry, only with Google Earth.
Thank you, Rich Donnelly. Thank you, Jayson Stark. Keith Law, nevermind.
When John Henry was a little bitty boy,
Sittin’ on his daddy’s knee.
He picked up a hammer and a little piece of steel,
and said “This hammer be the death of me,
"Lord, Lord.
"This hammer’s going to be the death of me.”
P.S. That’s one big third baseman. Maybe switching to 1B is a good idea.
I think that blaming Boras is something of a cop-out.
Boras will try to get the maximum dollars… but ultimately, the player is Boras’s boss, and if he doesn’t agree with what Boras is doing, he doesn’t have to go along with it.
If I were a 22 YO first round draft pick
or the father of one, I’d want Scot Boras fighting for me.
I gotta go with azibuck on this one.
I think the truth may well have been somewhere in the middle on this one — the PBC does have an obligation to respect the midnight time limit just as much as the player and his agent.
I’m just glad that the parties got together. That’s what negotiation is all about — getting to “yes”.
I won’t ever respect Scot Boras because of some of his antics — J.D. Drew for example. But I would think that any good agent would tell a prospective client that they have to agree to listen to the agent 100% of the time and take all his advice or fire the agent — that there is no middle ground of "well you’re my agent but why don’t you give into the PBC on this one, ok? If I was an agent, I’d absolutely insist on that. And I never heard any facts (as opposed to press releases) that in this one Boras was so off base that he deserved firing — he may have been wrong and even dead wrong but not outside the limits of fair representation.
I’d rather judge Pedro for what he does on the field and as a member of the PBC, and not what happened last August.
I would not want Boras representing my kid. I’d be afraid he’d sacrifice security in order to gamble on getting the biggest possible bonus (and payday for himself). I’d also be concerned about Boras’ history of failing to inform clients of offers and threatening them with litigation. I’d be worried about conflicts of interest, too. My guess is that Eric Hosmer ended up agreeing after Alvarez because Boras was more interested in getting Alvarez the biggest bonus in the draft. He probably kept the Royals on hold waiting on the Pirates. Hosmer was very happy with his bonus but it could have been invalidated. I suspect that’s one of the reasons the union pressured Boras to settle with the Pirates.
I wouldn't either, but not for the reasons you stated
I wouldn’t want Boras representing my kid because his style wouldn’t mesh with mine. Anyone around BD or whygavs knows I abhor confrontation and prefer a non-abrasive approach to communication.
If Boras wasn’t good/great for his clients, word would get around and he’d have a harder and harder time attracting clients. Until that happens, I’ll assume Boras is the shiznit, even with some possible warts.
Interesting point about the conflict of interest though, especially on deadline day. It’s the only time the deadline is the same for all his clients.
Negotiation is about getting a "yes".
Which Boras and the team got. And then Alvarez (through Boras) went back on it. Maybe if he doesn’t play well this year, the front office can go back on paying his salary, to even things up.
If I had a son who got drafted, I’m not sure who I’d want him to end up with. Tony Attanasio is pretty good, but he’s semi-retired and becoming more so every day. Arn Tellem is a good-but-fair hardball guy, and while the Furcal thing is a blot on his record, I think that was the result of Furcal getting cold feet rather than any machinations by Tellem (who stepped up and took the PR hit for his client after the decision was made). I guess I might recommend Bean Stringfellow, who seems to do a good job of balancing his clients’ wishes with the offers on the board.
Boras is a smart guy who’s good at maximizing your chance of getting a huge payday, but he’s not always acting in his clients’ best interest. He looks for the deal that’s best for him, not necessarily the one that’s best for them. They’re often the same, but not always.
Let's put our cards on the table
Boras is an asshole. He is very good at what he does, but the conflict issues raised above are legitimate (IMO). He is in a power position and exploits his power every time with impunity and wholesale disregard for concerns other than his own. He is the bull in the china shop.
I really hope that someday the shoe is on the other foot and he gets kicked hard. He could do his job and fully serve his clients without harming the game – but he chooses not to. Screw him.
Good day.
How has he harmed the game
In any way that wasn’t allowed by the CBA or the laws of the USA?
And I hope ethics issues don’t get raised, because remember who he negotiates against.
Keep hoping
It has more to do with morals than ethics and yes, I hold against Boras the fact that he is shameless. I never said he broke a law or rule; nor does he need to for me and others to hold a grudge for the selfish approach that he fosters and which is unnecessarily extreme and bad for the health of major league baseball.
Good day.
I can't argue with you
I laugh every damn time I read “Good day.”
Me too!
Is it a “Willie Wonka” reference? Dunno, but I hear Gene WIlder’s voice.
Boras is very very bad for BB. Period.
My beef is that I just don’t think it fair to make Matt Weiters, Pedro Alvarez, and Stephen Strasburg (just to take the best amateurs of the past 3 years he’s represented) responsible for reining him in.
MLB lets Boras exist. MLB (and the MLBPA) draft stupid rules like the midnight August 15 deadline in an attempt to negate some of Boras’s power, and then watch (and support) his manipulation of the rule. (Not that the PBC maybe didn’t manipulate the rule, too.)
Remember for a kid like Pedro he’s only subject to the draft cause he moved from the DR to NYC. And he passed when first drafted — today he could be in the mix to be starting at 3B in Boston. And like all these amateurs, by signing he’s committing to a single team for a period equal to about 50% of the years he’s walked on this earth. I’d be looking for a tiger to fight for me if I were he.
I’d far prefer changing the rules like NBA and/or NFL has done to weaken guys like Boras. MLB could reduce the number of rounds of the draft — it’s huge compared to NBA or NFL (50 rounds compared to 2 and 7, respectively). That’s good for MLBPA and Boras cause it makes more amateur free agents (Boras’s main goal). In return negotiate for something – smarter guys than me can figure out what but how ‘bout a team wide first year bonus cap, or franchise player rule, or Larry Bird rule soft salary cap? That they can’t (or won’t) do this leaves Boras open to manipulate the system.
But just insisting that 18-22 year old kids should ignore what Boras can do for them isn’t going to work IMHO. It’s not their obligation to fix baseball or put Boras in his place. And I ain’t (for one) going to spend the next decade hating on Pedro cause he picked Boras and then listened to him.
a lot of comparisons in that article
Ruthian, a left handed Big Albert, Willie Stargell. If he is half of those guys his 6 years in Pittsburgh should be great.
by SHOOTFOR2010 on Mar 26, 2009 4:57 PM EDT reply actions
Pedro
At least it seems his attitude and willingness to listen and learn is the complete antithesis of Barry Bighead.
Actually, Barry did a great job of learning.
You may not like his personality, but he did a hell of a job turning himself into a skilled and well-rounded baseball player.
True enough...
Poorly worded on my part.
His attitude, seemingly humble personality, and how he relates to people is the complete antithesis of Barry Bighead.
by Hitman Easler on Mar 26, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Pedro Alvarez:
“Ruthian, a left handed Big Albert, Willie Stargell. If he is half of those guys his 6 years in Pittsburgh should be great.”
Let’s first hope that he is done with his imitation of Fat Albert.
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