Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Win or Lose, Boston Celtics' New Big 3 Era A Success

Braves 11, Pirates 1: Another Blowout, But...

If there's anything to be grateful about here, it's that the Pirates have now played two blowouts in a row, allowing them to spread work around in their thin bullpen. I missed most of this one, but tuned in for the end of Craig Hansen's dreadful outing. Donald Veal was up next and only allowed one run compared to Hansen's four, but otherwise Veal was just as bad, walking four batters and generally looking like he didn't belong anywhere near the major leagues. 

Before them, Zach Duke got pasted for 12 hits and six runs in six innings, but... at least he didn't walk anyone? The offense, meanwhile, was quiet until a meaningless run came across in the ninth on an HBP by young Braves reliever James Parr. Before that, Javier Vazquez shut them down completely, with eight strikeouts in six shutout innings. The Pirates managed only one extra-base hit (a double by Freddy Sanchez) and one walk.

Oh well--the Pirates took two out of three, and they'll have a fresh 'pen for the series that starts tomorrow against the Marlins. What a difference a year makes--last season, four of the Bucs' first eight games went for extra innings, which created a huge problem because Rule 5 pick Evan Meek had to pitch in close games. This year the Pirates essentially have two Evan Meeks on the roster, but the Bucs have played in several blowouts, had one game postponed, and haven't had any extra-inning games, so there hasn't been a problem.

Comment 47 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Adam's hitting was nice while it lasted

Well, Adam LaRoche is back to…well, being Adam LaRoche in May and April. He was hitless in this series, and looked bad doing it. Swinging at balls in the dirt, swinging right through good pitches, and looking at called third strikes. He constantly came up to bat with runners in scoring position and was terrible once again. This guy is the biggest rally killer I’ve ever seen. He can’t get an RBI hit to save his life. Get him out of Pittsburgh already! Expect it to continue against a really good Marlins’ pitching staff. About today’s game, I didn’t really think Duke was as bad as it looked. Sure, he was getting hit today, but Francouer’s hit was a dink of the end of the bat into centerfield. He really made one mistake all day to Martin Prado. He was trying to get the ball in on his hands, but left the ball out over the plate. Prado made him pay and hit a HR (I really like Prado. He can hit.) Yes, the hits were alarming, but I expect a better start next time out for Duke.

by thelumberco. on Apr 19, 2009 4:50 PM EDT reply actions  

dude you hate adam laroche

and you know nothing about baseball. all you do is come on here and rip on him. chill out. nobody cares how much you hate adam laroche. have you even been to a game yet? or are you just mad willie stargell isnt still starting for the pirates? i mean pops died. this is 2009. were 6-6. take it easy.

I GOT MY STREET BUZZ BEFORE I GOT MY PEACH FUZZ

by omar moreno on Apr 20, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

And just like that, in the space of four games...

…Andy LaRoche made it all the way back to the Mendoza line.

One might almost think that it’s still really, really early in the season.

by Vlad on Apr 19, 2009 5:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Not worried about Andy

Look, I think Andy LaRoche will be fine. He just needed to get that first hit so he could relax. He’s coming in with a new team and wanted to show everybody what he could do after a disappointing second half once he was traded to the Buccos. He was pressing. He looks a lot more relaxed, and he will be fine. His brother is another story. It’s so frustrating watching him hit. He doesnt’ make any adjustments after seeing what a pitcher has got or after seeing how a pitcher pitched him in a previous at-bat. He fouls off every single good pitch he sees. If he doesn’t strike out, he rolls over and hits a weak dribbler somewhere on the infield. The only time he is going to get a hit is when he’s ahead in the count 3-0 or 3-1 (his double in the gap against Houston was on a 3-0 count). He can’t hit the outside pitch. It’s so frustrating to watch him, especially with runners in scoring position. He never comes through. I hope I’m wrong. I hope this series was just one of those series where things didn’t go his way, and I hope he gets back on track during the Marlins’ series. But from what I’ve seen recently and from his first two years here, I highly doubt it. The Marlins have a very good pitching staff, and are probably going to make Adam look worse than the Braves did this weekend.

by thelumberco. on Apr 19, 2009 6:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, Adam didn't look great this series...

…but he’s still tied for the team lead in HR. We could be doing much worse.

by Vlad on Apr 19, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

thank you vlad

im sick of this guy. i liked it during the offseason when he was never posting.

I GOT MY STREET BUZZ BEFORE I GOT MY PEACH FUZZ

by omar moreno on Apr 20, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hey, now, hang on.

I don’t always agree with him, but he’s got just as much right to post here as I do.

by Vlad on Apr 20, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, it’s not like he’s thegunner or anything.

by WTM on Apr 20, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

if the bucs wanted to upgrade their bullpen, washington cut steven shell today, a 25 year old rightie reliever. shell is former angels prospect that fizzled as a starter and got off to a tough start this year, but he’s posted a 2.50 era over 54.0 innings in the big leagues with a 45/21 k/bb rate.

one also has to wonder what drove the nationals into full blown panic mode right now. i mean, it’s not like they didn’t know they’d be terrible.

by johnnycuff on Apr 19, 2009 10:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Why would we want him?

umm..johnnycuff, why in the world would we want players that are already being cut by the NATIONALS?!?! If you can’t play for the Nats, you probably can’t play major league baseball. No thanks to any players that are cut by the Nats, but hey, then again we are the Pirates and we usually jump on other team’s scrubs.

by thelumberco. on Apr 19, 2009 10:57 PM EDT reply actions  

shell

Not sure if Shell’s any good, but I wouldn’t write him off just because the Nationals bullpen had a bad two weeks. They’re panicking. Look at how many guys couldn’t cut it with the Pirates, but have gone on to do good things elsewhere.

by bolton on Apr 20, 2009 4:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Shell:

FB sits high 80s but has movement (as with most guys who came up with the Angels), has a pretty good curve, also throws a slider, split, and change. Low arm angle. Misses a fair number of bats, can go two innings if necessary, probably good for an ERA in the low fours.

by Vlad on Apr 20, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

A few guys Littlefield tossed for nothin':

Bronson Arroyo
Chris Young
Jon Albaladejo
Matt Guerrier
Leo Nunez
Jeff Bennett
Henry Owens

There are more, of course, but that’s a decent start on things. Two solid SPs and five fairly good arms for the pen.

by Vlad on Apr 20, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bronson Arroyo, Duaner Sanchez, Chris Young, Jason Schmidt, Joe Beimel, Oliver Perez, Ty Wigginton, Jody Gerut

by WTM on Apr 20, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

You Can Compose A List Like This ...

for all 30 MLB teams without any trouble at all.

The Pirates have certainly made their share of mistakes, but I don’t see a lot of Hall Of Famers or superstars on your lists.

by thegunner on Apr 20, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's totally irrelevant.

We aren’t talking about whether Steven Shell would be a Hall of Famer or a superstar. We’re talking about whether bad teams sometimes cut loose players who would be useful contributors on non-bad teams.

The answer to that question, obviously, is yes.

by Vlad on Apr 20, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

If You Keep Thinking ...

that players like Shell could make a difference in the Pirates’ future performance,
you had better rethink what it is going to take to turn around this franchise.

I thought that I saw where Huntington was pulling a W. Bushian “this job is hard” statement in one of Dejan’s (or it may have been the Tribune) recent (like yesterday!) columns or blogs where Huntington was lamenting how difficult it is to find good pitching, particularly starting pitching.

Hey, how are the Marlins doing it? Or other non-big budget clubs? How are they finding and developing pitchers? It can be done, either through proper evaluation, drafting/signing and developing or by trading existing 25 man roster pieces for developable talent.

The problem that you all have is that you feel that Team Coonington is so much better than their predecessors.

They are better. The question is “how much better?”

by thegunner on Apr 20, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

to bring this discussion full circle, the marlins are doing it by playing half of their opening games against the nationals.

by johnnycuff on Apr 20, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Marlins did it...

…by building a championship-caliber nucleus ten years ago and selling it off for prospects, which they developed into another championship-caliber nucleus and then sold off in turn, leading to the core of the current team. Since Huntington didn’t inherit either a championship-caliber nucleus or the top prospects received from selling one off, it’s not really an avenue that’s open to him.

I don’t know why you keep trying to make the Shell suggestion into some kind of meta-strategy to turn around the entire franchise. The only thing Johnny suggested is that our bullpen might be a little better if we had Shell in there instead of a wild project like Hansen or a piece of AAA filler like Burnett. Which it probably would. So why are you trying to make the identity of our sixth- or seventh-best reliever into some kind of referendum on the course of the franchise?

by Vlad on Apr 20, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

exactly

he’s a right handed reliever that can find the plate, unlike several of our current options. i didn’t annoit him savior of the franchise.

by johnnycuff on Apr 20, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

There probably should be a term for this type of argument. Somebody suggests a minor move that might help make the team a bit better, and the response is that it won’t turn the team around. Well, duh, short of Albert Pujols what single player out there WILL turn the team around? Somehow, the term “straw man” doesn’t quite do this sort of response justice.

by WTM on Apr 20, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

You could give us three Pujolses:

One for 1B, one for 3B, and one for LF, and we still wouldn’t be a real contender. We have a lot of work to do.

by Vlad on Apr 20, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Term Suggestion...

“Jake” if youve ever read his Bucco-Blog then you know why…The difference between him and Eeyore is brevity…All Eeyore needed was “no bother”

by Mick Kraut on Apr 20, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry

“Doing a Jake” is the accepted term for repeatedly closing down your blog amidst vague, unexplained, drama-queen rantings about how the Pirates have threatened you or something, then reopening it two days later.

by WTM on Apr 20, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Trying To Rebuild The Pirates...

by making insignificant moves in the bullpen misses the whole point.

The Pirates need major surgery, not minor outpatient surgery from a local urgent care clinic.

Go back to the early days of Littlefield and read about what he said needed to be done with the franchise. It’s not a whole lot different from what you are hearing today from Team Coonington.

Action and positive results in the form of the W-L record speak a helluva lot louder than words.

(Incidentally, the $6.5 million that is being spent in Brazil is over a five year period. The franchise that is doing this has the right idea.)

by thegunner on Apr 20, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

If at first the gunnerism doesn’t succeed, repeat it some more!!!

Go back to the early days of Littlefield and read about what he said needed to be done with the franchise. It’s not a whole lot different from what you are hearing today from Team Coonington.

The difference is that Littlefield said one thing and then did the exact opposite. When he first took over, for instance, he said they needed to upgrade the scouting in the Dominican. He then proceeded to punt the Dominican for seven years.

by WTM on Apr 20, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didn't Littlefield Hire Rene Gayo?

If so, what was he doing for seven years?

by thegunner on Apr 21, 2009 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Gayo was hired halfway through DL’s tenure and DL gave him no bonus money to work with.

by WTM on Apr 21, 2009 6:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Right now, the Pirates have lots of problems.

But solving a small problem does not prevent them from also solving a large one.

If I want to paint my house, that doesn’t stop me from also fixing a broken window. I can do both.

by Vlad on Apr 20, 2009 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Some People Can Multi-Task

Congratulatiions, you are one of them.

by thegunner on Apr 21, 2009 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

so if the nats cut adam dunn, we should not sign him just because the nationals cut him? ridiculous.

teams like the nationals get that way by making stupid personnel decisions and in case you haven’t noticed, we are one of those teams or at least we have been. have you seen our bullpen? name a right handed pitcher besides matt capps or tyler yates that you trust. this is a guy we could get for free, not have to trade anyone and pay him the minimum salary.

by johnnycuff on Apr 20, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Actually

…Shell is 26 yrs old, but who’s counting.

by phil79 on Apr 20, 2009 12:39 AM EDT reply actions  

Andy LaRoche

I’m very confused as to why people said he was struggling and not looking like a big leaguer. Before he got hits, he had something like 17 plate appearances. To say he looked like he didn’t belong, you would think that he would have struck out in something like 9 or 10 of those PAs. He only had I think 3 K’s in those PAs while hitting the ball all over the field, just right at people. Things have now started to fall in for him.

He was bad for two months last year, but 20 PAs aren’t reason enough to give up on him and now he’s starting to hit it where they ain’t. He will be fine.

by hisjazziness on Apr 20, 2009 9:27 AM EDT reply actions  

L.O.B....

is the stat that concerns me the most. Our 3 – 5 hitters left something like 10 guys stranded out there. I know it’s only one game and I know based on the outcome those runs wouldn’t have a difference anyway but things change when you’re pushing runs across the plate and pressuring the other pitcher. It’s a ton easier to pitch when you’ve got a 6 run lead as apposed to a 2 or 3 run lead. I’m thinking that LaRoche and Hinske should be splitting some more time at 1B. Also, do you think that signing Pedro Martinez sounds like a crazy idea? I’m thinking his asking price would be too high for us. He’s still got to be good for 10 – 15 wins. That way we could can have stronger bullpen with Karstens/Ohrendroff out there as maybe a long reliever/fill-in starter. I’m probably talking crazy talk.

by Sdm42482 on Apr 20, 2009 9:59 AM EDT reply actions  

$5 million

is what pedro wants and management has said that’s too much

by johnnycuff on Apr 20, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think Pedro would be an upgrade.

I’m not sure whether he’d be a $6M upgrade, or whether there’s $6M worth of flex in the budget. I know that the team was still keeping an eye on him as of a week or two ago, but I think they’re waiting for the price to come down.

Not crazy about Hinske instead of LaRoche at first.

by Vlad on Apr 20, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

is it 6 now? i haven’t been keeping up.

i do agree that he’d be an upgrade in the rotation if he’s healthy.

by johnnycuff on Apr 20, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

If (and it's a big if) ...

we went around the rotation one more time and were still sitting around .500 and I thought I had three starters could give me 67% quality starts and two others I couldn’t trust, I would have to head to Coonelly’s office and at least talk about it. I mean, I know Pedro is fragile and you’d end up using your pen a lot behind him because he can’t possibly go more than six innings, and that wouldn’t be a good thing, but if even a broken-down Pedro is your No. 4 starter, that’s a pretty good rotation. Maybe (MAYbe) take a run at a freak wild card …

Actually, looking at Pedro’s lines the last few years, I’d see if he’d be willing to take, like $2 mil up front with a load if incentives.

Also, FWIW, I am contractually obligated to point out that unless he’s in the minors it appears Josh Fogg doesn’t have a job. Anyone know if he’s out of baseball?

by bucdaddy on Apr 20, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Josh Fogg

signed a minor league contract this spring with Colorado, with an invitation to Spring Training. I’m guessing he did not make the team, but did not keep track of him. who is Colorado’s AAA affiliate? he might be there.

by gonfalon on Apr 20, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Colorado Springs

And yes, Fogg is pitching for them (roster here). His last start was on the 16th – he gave up 4 runs in 4 innings against the Reno Aces, with 3 hits, 4 BB and 2 K.

by Vlad on Apr 20, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, the Pirates are supposedly going to hire a scout in Ecuador. No idea what the baseball scene is in those countries.

by WTM on Apr 20, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

They both have national teams.

Brazil’s has a little better track record, though neither is great.

Looks like one Ecuadorean in US ball – Alfredo Venegas, a 23-year-old at A+ in Seattle’s system. Brazil has placed about a dozen guys in organized leagues, including ex-Pirate prospect Jose Pett.

Some of the Brazilian players, such as Jô Matumoto, are the children of ethnically Japanese parents living in Brazil. Similar to Lyoto Machida, if you follow MMA.

by Vlad on Apr 20, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Pittsburgh Pirates.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Mlb_photo_1367_small
Fixing the Pirate offense: Plate Discipline

Recent FanPosts

Small
Who'd of "Plunked" it? Shades of Jason Kendall
Small
Runs . . . Any way you can get them
Pirates_1908_small
gamethread vs cubs 5/26/12
Smiling_small
A little background on the offense
Insetcommodoreperry_small
Guess the Score Game 47: Cubs @ Pirates
Insetcommodoreperry_small
Guess the Score Game 46: Cubs @ Pirates
Small
A cheerful look at our offseason additions
Small
Pedro's Defensive Contributions
A_red_spider_web_on_a_black_background_0071-0911-1622-1329_smu_small
A couple guys that could help the Buccos offense
178896_499126548441_596563441_5939410_7960015_n_small
The Pirates Pitchers Have Adopted Their Own Sign: The FU!

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Yahoo_full_count

Managers

Charlie_small Charlie Wilmoth

Editors

18470r_small Vlad

Davidtodd_small David Todd

Authors

Img_1692_small WTM

Mark_profile_pic_small MarkInDallas