Ohlendorf's Pitch F/x vs Marlins

by mlbnotebook on Apr 20, 2009 11:19 PM EDT Comment 39 comments

Thought you guys might enjoy some Pitch F/x data from Ross Ohlendorf's start against the Marlins this evening.

Here was Ohlendorf's location today: (Click for bigger graph)

And his movement:

Ohlendorf's slider looked good. Some sliders don't look like they are moving anywhere, but you can tell that his slider has some life to it.

Ohlendorf's 4-Seam fastball had some good life to it, and his change-up had movement (to go with a ~10 mph drop in velocity).

Also, his sinkers and curveballs were most likely 4-Seam fastballs and sliders, respectively. Unfortunately, MLB Advanced Media doesn't always classify pitches correctly, but I showed them as is.

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how do you read this?

by PensRock1 on Apr 20, 2009 11:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sorry, used to posting these things on BtB

For location, it is from the view of the catcher. The box is a typical strike zone (scaling makes it look bad, but it’s true). Numbers are in feet.

For movement, the numbers are in inches. Horizontal movement on the x-axis, and vertical movement on the Y. The break is measured against a pitch with no spin on it, so that’s why the fastball moves the way it does on the graph. To see where typical pitches end up, go here.

Hope that clears it up.

-Zach Sanders
MLB Notebook.com
Roto Rat.com

by mlbnotebook on Apr 21, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also

The break is from catchers POV. So the slider/curve breaks in to lefties.

-Zach Sanders
MLB Notebook.com
Roto Rat.com

by mlbnotebook on Apr 21, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What the...?

This is stupid. Nobody knows what all that stuff means.

by thelumberco. on Apr 21, 2009 12:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

I would like to see more of this type of analysis personally, since I rarely get the opportunity to watch the Pirates with my own eyes.

Thanks very much to the OP and keep the pitchf/x coming.

by houksyndrome on Apr 21, 2009 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i second that

Jason
The Hanging Curve

by poorboywilly on Apr 21, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s really not that complicated – there is a great explanation right above your post, Lumber.

The first one is the same as Fox’s little strike zone thing (though this probably has a bit more accurate strike zone).

The second just shows how a pitch appears to move relative to what a batter would expect.

by wickethewok on Apr 21, 2009 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

I would like to see more of this type of analysis personally, since I rarely get the opportunity to watch the Pirates with my own eyes.

Thanks very much to the OP and keep the pitchf/x coming.

by houksyndrome on Apr 21, 2009 1:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Oops sorry for the double post.

by houksyndrome on Apr 21, 2009 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep.

Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing.

by Vlad on Apr 21, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

She Looks Pregnant To Me

by thegunner on Apr 21, 2009 1:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Gunner doesn't understand something?

I’m shocked.

by Vlad on Apr 21, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That actually

made me smile. Not bad, gunner.

by bucdaddy on Apr 21, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Looks like Ohlendorf’s change-up has similar movement to his fastball. I would imagine that makes it harder for batters to distinguish between the two.

Also, that’s the book-rule strike zone, right? I’d like to see more pitch f/x graphs use the non-rectangular strike zone that is actually called on average instead, which I think is a lot more useful. No reason one couldn’t overlay both though.

Thanks for the charts!

by wickethewok on Apr 21, 2009 1:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

mlbnotebook,

Thanks for posting this stuff. Whats up with the Y axis? Does Ohlendorf really get 6+ inches of rise on his fastball and change? I feel that around the 8 inch mark on the Y should be the reference point for pitch movement.

At first pass I like that Ohlendorf’s change up mimics the movement of his fastball reasonably well. I imagine that when he releases it, the change has similar spin to the fastball thus making it more effective. How important is it for a change to mimic the fastball in spin and movement?

by Chad Bahamas on Apr 21, 2009 9:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The fastball doesn't really rise

It just seems like it because it compares the pitches to those with zero spin. If there was no spin on the ball, the ball would drop significantly. That’s why it looks like it is rising on the charts, because it is higher than it would have been.

As for the change-up, in all the graphs I have done, his may mimic his fastball the most. I would say it’s not actually as much of an advantage as you would think. I think the key is the similarity in release point. I’ll put that up here shortly.

-Zach Sanders
MLB Notebook.com
Roto Rat.com

by mlbnotebook on Apr 21, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Release Point

Click here for full size image. Axis is in feet. I placed the smaller image inside to show what it looks like zoomed out and on a different scale.

For the most part, his change-up and fastball come from the same point, but he does have some work to do.

-Zach Sanders
MLB Notebook.com
Roto Rat.com

by mlbnotebook on Apr 21, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And The Curve Doesn't Really Curve ..

it’s just an optical illusion.

Who was the idiot that ever made that statement?

by thegunner on Apr 22, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Very cool. I’m surprised by how much those fastball releases spread across the graph. Maybe he’s just trying to get different movements and locations on that fastball.

by Chad Bahamas on Apr 21, 2009 10:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Could be

Looking back at the movement graph, he has quite the diverse movement on the fastball.

-Zach Sanders
MLB Notebook.com
Roto Rat.com

by mlbnotebook on Apr 21, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A correction on the Sinker/Fastball

BtB’s resident Pitch F/x expert, Harry Pav, says that most of his fastballs are actually sinkers, not the other way around.

-Zach Sanders
MLB Notebook.com
Roto Rat.com

by mlbnotebook on Apr 21, 2009 11:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

my thought

The four seamers tend to have more “rise” on them, I would say there is a fairly decent gap if you draw a horizontal line at +7 inches on the Y axis, the pitches above are probably four seamers and the pitches below are two seamers (or sinkers if you care). Plus, most of the two seamers delineated thusly have -6 or more inches horizontal movement (more “tail”) and most of the pitches above the line have less than -6 inches of horizontal movement (less tail).

Jason
The Hanging Curve

by poorboywilly on Apr 21, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great stuff MLB!

Where do you get this data from?

by houksyndrome on Apr 21, 2009 12:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Data is from MLB Advanced Media

All games can be found here. Just do this year>month>day>game>pbp>pitchers>pitcher of your choice

OR. Brooks Baseball makes it easier to get the data, and you can download the table directly. Scroll down to see the links that Sky provides for creating graphs if you don’t know how.

-Zach Sanders
MLB Notebook.com
Roto Rat.com

by mlbnotebook on Apr 21, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

CORRECTION: where do you get these data from?

I’m a scientist for God’s sake, I shouldn’t be making that mistake!

by houksyndrome on Apr 21, 2009 12:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

if you were an english major

you would say, “from where did i get these data”

by johnnycuff on Apr 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

err, "from where did YOU get these data"

obviously i wasn’t an english major

by johnnycuff on Apr 21, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nobody ever uses the singular.

Datum datum datum!

by Vlad on Apr 21, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's Saturn

I don’t know what planet you’re thinking of, but we’re talking English anyway, not astrology.

by azibuck on Apr 21, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

by Vlad on Apr 21, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

by azibuck on Apr 21, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

by Vlad on Apr 21, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

PitchFX addict

You can find “these” datas (intentional) at Brooks Baseball. The post’s author speaks of BtB.

Overall, I don’t think he had amazing stuff last night, but,

1. He threw his fastball for strikes.
2. When he’s going well, I think he has three pitches that look the same after they’ve left his hand — fastball, change, and slider. Fastball goes 91 and bears in on righties. Change goes 9mph slower with same action. Slider
is same speed as change, but breaks down and away from righties. The slider’s not devastating on its own, but coupled with two other pitches that start on the same plane, of two different speeds, it’s a terrific pitch. The low number of strikes with it makes me think he didn’t have awesome stuff last night, but I think it kept hitters honest and off balance.

by azibuck on Apr 21, 2009 2:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs