Ohlendorf Discovers Slider, Changeup

by Charlie Wilmoth on Apr 21, 2009 2:40 AM EDT

The Post-Gazette rightly points out that Ross Ohlendorf mixed in a lot more offspeed stuff, including a very nice slider, last night in defeating the Marlins, whereas in his first two starts (one relatively successful, one not) he relied very heavily on his fastball and sinker.

Will the real Ross Ohlendorf please stand up? He arrived in the Pirates organization pitching 99 MPH but, despite the benefit of a Princeton education, not knowing how to mix his breaking pitches in with his fastball. Then when he showed up in Pittsburgh later that year, he threw 92. In his first start this year, he threw 90 or so as a fastball/sinker pitcher, and in his third start he finally started blending in his slider and changeup, to great effect.

Can someone with more firsthand baseball knowledge help me find a pattern here? I get that he was tired down the stretch last year and that's the stated reason for the velocity loss, but is there any reason, beyond the fact that velocity is just generally unreliable, that it hasn't come back? And why doesn't Ohlendorf mix in his slider and changeup in every start? Again, I get that the stuff one will have on any given night is unpredictable and that a pitcher needs to change his approach to suit different teams; for example, tonight Ohlendorf said that he mixed in his slider and changeup because the Marlins like hitting fastballs. But few pitchers are as unpredictable from night to night than Ohlendorf is, and I think he'd be a lot better off if he mixed in all his pitches every start.

Tweet Comment 23 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

Radar gun

Charlie I’m not sure what is going on either. The Fox score banner shows the speed of each pitch but it never matched what the announcers were saying. In the 9th when Chavez was pitching, the radar gun on the TV said 91mph but Blass was saying Chavez was hitting 95. So I’m not sure how reliable it is.

by Piratefan13 on Apr 21, 2009 7:35 AM EDT reply actions

yes

I also have speculations on the radar gun. There is a new set-up this year which shows fans on a video board the speed of the pitch from hand, 40ft away, and at the plate. I don’t know where the TV gun fits into this or if it is a separate gun.

As for Chavez, the last time he pitched before tonight, the TV gun definitely had a few pitches at 96 and one at 97.

Jason
The Hanging Curve

by poorboywilly on Apr 21, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Isn't the coaching staff

normally responsible for what pitches will be thrown in different situations?

Your post seems to suggest that it is Ohlendorf himself making these decisions but I find it hard to believe that he goes out there and decides " Hmm, I think I will mix in my slider and change more tonight." Part of last night’s game was actually televised in my area and it seemed to me that Jaramillo was looking over at the Pirate Dugout to get the signs, at least at times.

by WestCoastBuc on Apr 21, 2009 9:28 AM EDT reply actions

Maybe Ohlendorf/Kerrigan/Russell/Catcher Not Named Doumit finally felt confident enough in Ohlendorf’s ability to locate his offspeed stuff that they chose to throw it more often. I feel like thats the a far more likely scenario rather than just a change in the choice of pitches

by Chad Bahamas on Apr 21, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions

Some of it is probably different stadium guns.

And some of it is, as I mentioned in an earlier post, a function of transitioning from the bullpen (where you can grip it and rip it) to the rotation (where you need to pace yourself).

by Vlad on Apr 21, 2009 9:49 AM EDT reply actions

Ohlendorf was starting when he was hitting 99 MPH, too. Yeah, I know these guns are unreliable, and that any report about a pitcher’s velocity has to be viewed as suspect. Still, I’m surprised there’s—what?—a 9 MPH difference? That’s a lot.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Apr 21, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions

The report on the 99...

…says that he was basically just throwing max-effort fastballs, which is how a reliever would work. Then, after the first two innings, he gassed a bit and was down around 92-93 on the stadium gun. If the stadium gun was a little bit hot, then he’s sitting at a true 94-95 in the first/second (and touching a bit higher on a few pitches), then down around a true 90-91 for the rest of the game. Which is where he was last night – he just paced himself a little more, and lasted a little deeper into the game.

There’s a big difference between touching 99 once in a blue moon and regularly working at 99. But whenever you hear that a guy touches the high-90s, you tend to think of it as more of a typical thing than it maybe really is. Everybody loves a good fish story, right?

by Vlad on Apr 21, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Starting vs Relieving

Typically, pitchers that are absolute flamethrowers in the bullpen reign it back when they are switched to starting, to avoid wearing down too quickly. The guys who consistently hit the high 90’s are usually closers or late-inning guys who know they only have to throw one inning or less; they can rear back and let it rip, figuring that if their stuff is overpowering enough, they won’t face more than 3-4 batters anyway; a starter has to consider the long haul of a game, where they are going to face 20+ batters.

Everyone raved about how Joba Chamberlain was close to 100 mph when he was a set-up guy, but now that he is starting full-time, he rarely tops 94.

And, yes, Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson could pump high-90’s heat as a starter for 9 innings. There will always be exceptions to every rule, and those two are simply freaks of nature.

by Bishop1973 on Apr 21, 2009 10:17 AM EDT reply actions

I am not saying at all that he cant throw hard but radar guns (specifically stadium and tv guns) are known to vary. From the referenced article it would appear that Ross (and Evan Meek) climbed to 99 mph on a minor league stadium gun in August and had no idea where it was going. Keep in mind it was a cold, rainy night, so the temp/ mound/ grip probably wasn’t ideal. It’s also early in the season. All of these factors combined with mild skepticism about guns (no offense to Indianapolis scoreboard operators) I could see how he would throw more like 90-92 than 95-97 consistently.

This is a I read yesterday about use of the term “mid-90’s fastball” and how hard most guys throw consistently. (It’s the 2/20/09 post)

But anyway I digress. I’m sure he can ramp it up when he needs to. He looked great and maybe they just wanted him to get confident locating his fastball before he started really mixing it up. Seems like a pretty logical progression for a young guy with control issues to start the season. Also the Marlins are a young, less disciplined team of hitters who may be more likely to chase the sinker than say the Cardinals or Astros. Just some thoughts.

by GTrain on Apr 21, 2009 10:22 AM EDT reply actions

The article mentioned

http://www.aarongleeman.com/2009_04_19_baseballblog_archive.html#5642035540013517110

by GTrain on Apr 21, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions

At a September game last year

I wound up sitting directly behind the plate, one section back, next to a section full of scouts, at least three of whom were using radar guns. As soon as the game ended I asked the scout who looked the oldest (and, I figured, the most experienced) if the stadium gun agreed with his. “Low,” he said. “Low?” “About three miles per hour.”

So … there can be that much variation in the systems.

Me, I’m betting that once you crank above 94 mph or so it starts to make little difference whether you can hit 102. Fast is fast.

by bucdaddy on Apr 21, 2009 10:36 AM EDT reply actions

Saw Billy Wagner pitch once

100 looks and plays verrrry different than 94. It all seems fast to you or me but that next level of 97 and up is the kind of stuff that is on another level even for MLB. Of course if it doesn’t move and they know what’s coming it doesn’t matter. Just ask Jason Motte and Kyle Farnsworth. It’s the guys who throw serious heat and mix it up like Santana and Beckett that are great starters. Rivera throws only fastballs from the pen but his stuff moves so much and he locates/ mixes them so well that he dominates.

I don’t really care how fast it’s going as long as it works. Here’s hoping O-Dorf and Co keep it up.

by GTrain on Apr 21, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions

… for example, tonight Ohlendorf said that he mixed in his slider and changeup because the Marlins like hitting fastballs.

Heh, show me a team that doesn’t.

Pittsburgh Black And Gold -- So new, it still smells like paint!

by JustinM on Apr 21, 2009 11:23 AM EDT reply actions

Apparently the Washington Nationals.

by GTrain on Apr 21, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions

Apparently, it’s now spelled “Natinals.”

http://www.faniq.com/blog/Washington-Nationals-Misspell-Jerseys-As-Natinals-Blog-22464

Somehow I don’t think that’s going to work out like the Rays changing their name.

by WTM on Apr 21, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions

Maybe they should just shorten it to the "Nats"

by Piratefan13 on Apr 21, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions

The way they’re going, “Nits” might be more appropriate.

by WTM on Apr 21, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Ohlendorf, discovers slider,changeup

Charley, I agree with Chad and hope that its a cumulative effect of maturation, confidence in his stuff, and most of all that the new pitching coach is actually having the desired effect on these guys.
It didn’t seem to bother them yesterday but if Doumit goes down or out for any length of time things could unravel in a hurry. I’m keeping my fingers crossed its nothing major.

by rocman on Apr 21, 2009 12:38 PM EDT reply actions

LOL

First of all, I’m a longtime friend of Ross’. Went to 2nd-11th grade with him. Emailed back and forth some after the game. He said he really got some good results implementing some of the things he’d been working on.

However, here’s the gem that I didnt know until stumbling across it – he was on Letterman’s Top 10 List recently! http://tinyurl.com/dx8u2w

by Michael Bean on Apr 21, 2009 1:29 PM EDT reply actions